Copper and liverock?

[Raf]

So in a FOWLR. Would a copper treatment using Coppersafe kill the liverock? If so, how bad?

Also, would hyposalinity affect liverock, how low must the salinity be to be effective to treat ich?

Thanks guys and gals

[DaveK]

The big problem with copper and live rock is that the copper gets absorbed by the live rock and will leach it back into the system, slowly over a long period of time. This just about ruins it for use in a reef tank. It will prevent most coral related livestock from growing on it.

With hyposalinity, you'll kill most of the live material on the live rock. This can cause a massive ammonia spike. However, at least the rock can still host new growth.

Treatment using hyposalinity usually reduces SG, slowly over several days, from a normal 1.025 to about 1.012, and holding it there for about 4 weeks.

This is why it's best to always treat in a quarantine tank.

[Melanie]

I agree with DaveK about the quarantine tank. It doesn't have to be any expensive set it up. I used an old 10 gallon tank that I thouroughly cleaned and disinfected. The only thing I added to it "special" is a powerhead that I got for less than $20 at petsmart. I already had a HOB filter.

You will be so happy if you take the time and minimal investment to set it up. It is also great for keeping new additions for a few weeks to make sure they are not sick before you introduce them to your display.

The added bonus of having a QT is that it is less expensive to treat 10 gallons than 72 gallons (the size of my display).

[lcstorc]

Great advice so far except for hypo you need to go farther than thay assuming it is ich you are treating. If so you need to go down to 1.0009 to be effective. This will lilely kill the life on the rock but not ruin it like copper. It would pretty much become base rock and you could seed it from other LR down the line.

[BigAl07]

Isn't the life cycle of ich longer than 4 weeks ?

[leebca]

The treatment time for Marine Ich by hyposalinity is not a specific length of time.

The clock starts ticking after the last spot is seen on the fish by the hobbyist. THEN 4 weeks go by (if a spot is seen, the clock starts over from the beginning -- 4 weeks of spot free observation is the goal), THEN the sp. gr. is slowly raised, THEN the hobbyist watches/monitors the fish for more weeks to VERIFY the fish are cured. You'll find some good hyposalinity recommendations here: A Fish Hyposalinity Treatment.

The effect of hyposalinity on live rock and live sand varies depending upon the life in and on the rock/sand. The more invertebrate life, the more die-off. I have seen live rock go through a hyposalinity treatment (to 1.008 sp. gr. units) without any ammonia spike or disturbance of the bacteria. On the other hand I have seen live rock/sand go through a hyposalinity treatment and ruin everything because that LR and LS had a significant amount of invertebrate life on/in it.

Hyposalinity is only good for Marine Ich (and a few of its lesser known cousins).

A copper treatment on LR and LS will not only kill off the invertebrates (as noted above for a hyposalinity treatment), but like Dave wrote, the copper binds with carbonates in the LR and LS. As pH fluctuates, the copper may be released back into the marine water, and reach such high levels as to kill fish (not to mention any leftover invertebrates). In addition, it has been shown that glass, acrylic and many surfaces will attract and hold on to copper such that sensitive invertebrates will never live in a marine system that had been copper treated. That is to say, copper can't be removed from the system in low enough quantities (without special cleaning) to allow these invertebrates to survive, much less thrive.

Both treatment processes are best done in a hospital tank.

[AQTCJAK]

I few treatments for ich. Copper yes only in a QT with bare bottom no rock etc.. Hyposalinity will work it can have adverse effect if doe incorrectly. Fresh water dip works everytime. Tropical Science ichtinguisher works wonders it is reef safe & gets the job done @ a minimal cost. Tropical Science Marine Max is a preventitive that helps maintain a healthe bacteria in your tank which in turn promotes healthy fish again reef safe. The best by far is this ich is in every tank the best solution is once the ich become free floating after it hatches a UV sterilizer running below 100GPH & strong enough to handle the tank size (when in doubt double the wattage) will kill all parasites. I always over kill the UV of couse I never have an ich issue either my 40 Gallon displat tank @ the shop is running a 57 Watt UV the Big tank was running a 1000W & never an issue not even with Algae.

[Raf]

Thanks goys.

This 'Tropical Science ichtinguisher' sounds to good to be true, kinda like the product: Medic, that also claims to be reefsafe and effective against ich.

Anybody else use these products?

[leebca]

If you understand Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) you'll understand there are no miracle cures or alternatives to the known three almost 100% successful ones. You can get more information from the links below, but if you would just stop and think about it in a sensible way:

Marine Ich has plagued the aquaculture and ornamental fish keeping industry/hobby for about 100 years. Don't you think that a 'miracle cure' would make the front page of the scientific journals? It doesn't exist, sad to say.

There are no shortcuts or fast remedies in this hobby, no more than there are fast solutions to poor husbandry.

Take some time; separate facts from myth-information. It will take reading and doing your own research:
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Good luck!

[Raf]

thanks for the links.

For those thinking of using the product Medic by Polylab, don't waste your money....doesn't work worth a damn....

[lcstorc]

I have always heard 6 -8 weeks as the lifecycle of ich. This would therefore be the time needed to keep the tank fish free as well as the time needed for Hypo.