Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous)

DrHank · 07-19-2007, 04:37 PM

For the past 2+ days my female angel has been off her feed. Instead of swimming all over the tank as she normally does yesterday she hid in the reef. Today she's been in the back corner of the tank. On closer inspection I found two spots of Ick on her side. None of the other fish seem to be affected.

I'm thinking of moving her to an empty 10 gallon tank (if I can catch her without over stressing her) and starting a hypo salinity treatment. Your opinions would be appreciated.

lcstorc · 07-19-2007, 04:41 PM

Well that could possibly help her but what about the rest of the fish in the tank? How will you rid it of ich? Once it is there it is a royal pain to elimintate. Since you just swapped tanks perhaps the ich is coming out due to moving stress. If it is only a fw spots and no other symptoms I might try soaking the food in garlic and running a UV. Neither one is a cure all but both seem to help.

DrHank · 07-19-2007, 04:55 PM

I'd really rather do that. I run UV 24/7. Her respiration seems fine. So far the rest of the tank seems fine. I may be mistaken but I believe that I read somewhere that Ick is always present in the tank. It is not generally a problem for healthy fish only those stressed or with compromised immune systems.

DrHank · 07-19-2007, 08:53 PM

Any other views on the subject or does everyone agree with Lynn? I was hoping for a bit more response. It's difficult to form a consensus when you only have one opinion.

caitrina · 07-19-2007, 09:21 PM

Ich is always present and always lives.

This is what I have read, let me find you the web site again, if I can....

Dentoid · 07-19-2007, 09:22 PM

I have to say that I agree with Lynn. Leaving them in situ, IMO, is always preferrable. That being said, I would only do this if the fishes behavior is normal (ie eating, being active etc) How are you going to get the garlic laced food into the fish if it's not eating? Two spots of ick on the fishes body shouldn't make it lethargic nor make it lose its appetite. If the ick is isolated to the skin, it should only be irritating in the early stages, perhaps, if it is ick, it has started to affect the gills thus the reason for her lethargy.

Many different pathogens present with the same symptoms. So it's imperative that you know what you are dealing with before treating it in any way. It could be something more ominous like velvet. If this fish is lethargic, then I would get it out of there before its health declines to a critical level. If you wait too long, moving it is sure to send it over the edge. It's a two edged sword. If you leave it in the tank, it could get better or worse. If you move it, it could get better or worse. I guess you have to weigh the pros/cons and risks/benefits. In the end, whether good or bad, you will have learned something and be better prepared if it happens again.

I say leave her in there over night, if in the morning she is not out and feeding, then consider moving her to the QT.

DrHank · 07-19-2007, 09:33 PM

Behavior is by no means normal. Lethargy and loss of appetite in this type of fish is extremely atypical. I'll leave her tonight and check in the morning.

I do appreciate all your input. It helps jog my thought process.

caitrina · 07-19-2007, 09:40 PM

Ich in Saltwater Fish: Treatment and Prevention

Although I have not read all of this, it has a lot of information and may be of help to you. I started to ignore it when I began reading about the copper meds, but continued to skim the page andcame across other suggestions. I found the facts about the diatom filter really interesting in Ick cases.

prow · 07-19-2007, 11:10 PM

IMO, get the hyposalinity tank going and get the fish in there ASAP. the other fish i would not worry about unless another one starts to show signs, then QT all fish even if asymptomatic. the hyposalinity will help out in many ways. the lower salinity, IMO, makes things like breathing easier and ion regulation should require less energy(O2). just the decrease in breathing efforts would have a over all effect of decreasing demands on the fish and reduced metobolic rates. it will use less energy and produce less waste there by allowing the available resource to use for fight off infection. ok enough what hyposalinity does, i am sure you already know.

sence its not eating adding anything to the food is not going to help. when shes ready/willing to eat a QT would be a much better place to get a weak fish eating, shes not strong enough to compete for food during feeding frenzies now.

stress stress stress everyone and everything is causing her more stress and shes getting weaker and weaker. QT her, not only for the stress, not only to give treatment opions, not only to get her to feed, but because the longer the ich have a place to breed(your angel) the more they will multiply the more likely she will not make it and die, also your other fish will become infested and could lead to everyone becoming infected.

catch her at night while sleeping its so much easier.

Dentoid · 07-19-2007, 11:18 PM

You may want to suppliment the food you are feeding your other fish however, to help build their immune systems so that they are prepared for what ever may be in the tank.

prow · 07-19-2007, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dentoid

You may want to suppliment the food you are feeding your other fish however, to help build their immune systems so that they are prepared for what ever may be in the tank.

yeah no dout, good point.

DrHank · 07-20-2007, 07:00 AM

Thanks folks. I'm going to try to move her to the QT this morning. Will keep you posted of progress.

DrHank · 07-20-2007, 07:12 AM

She's in the QT. She went into the net without a chase and quietly moved to the QT.

bluespotjawfish · 07-20-2007, 07:24 AM

I would do a freshwater dip to give her some immediate relief. Are the spots worse today?

Remember to take the salinity down slowly (2+ days), and even more important bring it back even slower (3+ days).

DrHank · 07-20-2007, 08:49 AM

I thought about a freshwater dip but didn't have time before work this morning. Will probably dip her this evening. I really feel sorry for her, she was doing perfectly until after the move. I'm going to bet that's what brought on the illness. At least she won't be bothered in the QT.

Amazingly, while she was in the back corner of the display, my blue spotted rabbitfish positioned himself close to her and raised dorsals at any other inhabitant that approached her.

07-19-2007, 04:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) For the past 2+ days my female angel has been off her feed. Instead of swimming all over the tank as she normally does yesterday she hid in the reef. Today she's been in the back corner of the tank. On closer inspection I found two spots of Ick on her side. None of the other fish seem to be affected. I'm thinking of moving her to an empty 10 gallon tank (if I can catch her without over stressing her) and starting a hypo salinity treatment. Your opinions would be appreciated. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

07-19-2007, 04:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 26,433 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) Well that could possibly help her but what about the rest of the fish in the tank? How will you rid it of ich? Once it is there it is a royal pain to elimintate. Since you just swapped tanks perhaps the ich is coming out due to moving stress. If it is only a fw spots and no other symptoms I might try soaking the food in garlic and running a UV. Neither one is a cure all but both seem to help. __________________ Peace LYNN Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Lynn's frag tank experiment A reef tank is like a race car. The faster you go the harder you crash.

07-19-2007, 04:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) I'd really rather do that. I run UV 24/7. Her respiration seems fine. So far the rest of the tank seems fine. I may be mistaken but I believe that I read somewhere that Ick is always present in the tank. It is not generally a problem for healthy fish only those stressed or with compromised immune systems. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

07-19-2007, 08:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) Any other views on the subject or does everyone agree with Lynn? I was hoping for a bit more response. It's difficult to form a consensus when you only have one opinion. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

07-19-2007, 09:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
caitrina Golden Moray Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somewhere in Florida Posts: 2,700 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) Ich is always present and always lives. This is what I have read, let me find you the web site again, if I can.... __________________ A reef tank is like a potato chip, you can't have just one! Chronicles Cat's Healing Gift: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ling-gift.html Cat’s 90 Gallon Toy: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...allon-toy.html 24 G Mystery Pod: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...stery-pod.html

07-19-2007, 09:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) Behavior is by no means normal. Lethargy and loss of appetite in this type of fish is extremely atypical. I'll leave her tonight and check in the morning. I do appreciate all your input. It helps jog my thought process. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

07-19-2007, 09:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
caitrina Golden Moray Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somewhere in Florida Posts: 2,700 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) Ich in Saltwater Fish: Treatment and Prevention Although I have not read all of this, it has a lot of information and may be of help to you. I started to ignore it when I began reading about the copper meds, but continued to skim the page andcame across other suggestions. I found the facts about the diatom filter really interesting in Ick cases. __________________ A reef tank is like a potato chip, you can't have just one! Chronicles Cat's Healing Gift: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ling-gift.html Cat’s 90 Gallon Toy: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...allon-toy.html 24 G Mystery Pod: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...stery-pod.html

07-19-2007, 11:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
prow Tridacna maxima Join Date: May 2005 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 4,728 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) IMO, get the hyposalinity tank going and get the fish in there ASAP. the other fish i would not worry about unless another one starts to show signs, then QT all fish even if asymptomatic. the hyposalinity will help out in many ways. the lower salinity, IMO, makes things like breathing easier and ion regulation should require less energy(O2). just the decrease in breathing efforts would have a over all effect of decreasing demands on the fish and reduced metobolic rates. it will use less energy and produce less waste there by allowing the available resource to use for fight off infection. ok enough what hyposalinity does, i am sure you already know. sence its not eating adding anything to the food is not going to help. when shes ready/willing to eat a QT would be a much better place to get a weak fish eating, shes not strong enough to compete for food during feeding frenzies now. stress stress stress everyone and everything is causing her more stress and shes getting weaker and weaker. QT her, not only for the stress, not only to give treatment opions, not only to get her to feed, but because the longer the ich have a place to breed(your angel) the more they will multiply the more likely she will not make it and die, also your other fish will become infested and could lead to everyone becoming infected. catch her at night while sleeping its so much easier. __________________ "He who sees things grow from their beginnings shall have the finest view of them" ........Aristotle........ "The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad." - Salvador Dali my chronicle........ http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...al-system.html my clamicle..........http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...my-tank-d.html

07-20-2007, 07:00 AM	#12 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) Thanks folks. I'm going to try to move her to the QT this morning. Will keep you posted of progress. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

07-20-2007, 07:12 AM	#13 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) She's in the QT. She went into the net without a chase and quietly moved to the QT. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

07-20-2007, 07:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
bluespotjawfish Tridacna maxima Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 4,943 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) I would do a freshwater dip to give her some immediate relief. Are the spots worse today? Remember to take the salinity down slowly (2+ days), and even more important bring it back even slower (3+ days). __________________ Lorraine To BB and all Bluespots - Journey of the 2nd Year ...The 2nd Year - Photoshow Check out Mr. BJ and friends... Mr. BJ's Aquarium - PhotoShow Please Donate to the American Cancer Society: http://main.acsevents.org/goto/lorrainerichards

07-20-2007, 08:49 AM	#15 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,758 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous) I thought about a freshwater dip but didn't have time before work this morning. Will probably dip her this evening. I really feel sorry for her, she was doing perfectly until after the move. I'm going to bet that's what brought on the illness. At least she won't be bothered in the QT. Amazingly, while she was in the back corner of the display, my blue spotted rabbitfish positioned himself close to her and raised dorsals at any other inhabitant that approached her. __________________ Doc Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html

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