question on durso standpipe's

[SiNiStEr NaTiOn]

I had checked all the threads in RS on durso standpipes or standpipes in general, and even search the internet on it but I still haven't answer my question about one thing.

The tank I'll be getting in about 3 months is going to have a corner overflow box with 2 holes drilled in the bottom of the tank and it comes with 1 standpipe. and I figure instead of using the second hole for the return, that I will use it for drain also, so I'll have to make a durso standpipe for it.

1 of the stand pipe will be T off and goto my refugium with a valve on that line. then both drain lines comes into a Y then into a single line into the PS chamber and yes I will be using filter sock that the water will be draining into it.

So the question is How do I start the standpipe to drain water after I build my plumbing in each standpipe since there will be 2 of them.

One more question during power outages will the standpipe continue to drain until water reach a certain height in the chamber? If not then how would this be achieved? Then when the power comes back on and the return pump pump the water back into the tank and start fill the overflow will the standpipe still have it suction power or do I need to manually start it again?

[Clownfish518]

Standpipes are purely gravity fed. Once the water reaches there height, they drain. No priming needed. The trick to two standpipes is to have them set to the same height.

The plumbing would be simpler if one standpipe went to the refugium, and the other to the sump. Instead of a valve, the megaflow standpipes are adjustable in height so you may want to check that out. Easier way to tune with two standpipes IME.

Also, you may want to look at the glassholes.com overflow boxes. They drain out the back of the tank, and are sleeker and take up much less room. They use the same principle as a Durso (if you diagram it out they form the same inverted "J"). they are cheap, silent, and you can access the plumbing. Getting your arms into those corner overflows are a PITA.

Also, the pre drilled holes that come with the tank are too small. I run a dual overflow with two 1.5" PVC pipes. A 1.5 inch pipe is only rated for 750 gph.

Here is a picture or two







Something you might want to consider. Well crafted too. Takes up so much less room in the tank

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by Clownfish518

...
The plumbing would be simpler if one standpipe went to the refugium, and the other to the sump. ...

I would consider this arrangement to be an error in design. You are sending unfiltered water directly to a refugium. This is sure to make the refugium a major dirt trap and nitrate factory.

I would run both standpipes to the sump and through a filter sock. Then I would use a large powerful skimmer to remove as much waste products as possible.

I would feed the refugium from the main return pump using a T and valves to control flow to the refugium and display tank.

[Clownfish518]

Originally Posted by DaveK

I would consider this arrangement to be an error in design. You are sending unfiltered water directly to a refugium. This is sure to make the refugium a major dirt trap and nitrate factory.

I would run both standpipes to the sump and through a filter sock. Then I would use a large powerful skimmer to remove as much waste products as possible.

I would feed the refugium from the main return pump using a T and valves to control flow to the refugium and display tank.

Dirt trap yes; I always use filter socks. Nitrate factory, not likely. In theory refugiums should receive unfiltered water, they should be plumbed in before the skimmer. The theory is you want them to process the nitrogen compounds to feed the algaes (Fenner & Calfo). I have done it both ways, and the difference is negligible. Plumbing is simpler my way is all. Do it either way, doesn't really matter.

If you a have a DSB in your refugium and you have measurable nitrates than you have something else going on. I once opened the drain plug on my skimmer by accident and drained about two cups of skimmate into my sump, and hence tank. Nothing spiked, no problems ensued. My refugium got very lush that week is only thing that changed. A properly sized and design refugium will absorb more nitrogen compounds than you can generate. Other than breaking in a tank I don't think I have measured positive for nitrates in 15 years.

[SiNiStEr NaTiOn]

I'm planning on a dsb in the fuge. and I do plan on using filter sock in the chamber that the protein skimmer will be in.

Hey clownfish can you provide example of the two ways your talking about.

Dave I had seen the fuge be plumb off the return but i also had seen the fuge been plumb off from the overflow lines also.

If I do go off from the overflow line I'll have a valve on that line to control how much water is being feed into the fuge. because even if it was plumb off from the return line I would still need a valve to control the flow into the fuge. So the way I look at it no matter which way I plumb, I see need for a vlave to control how much water is being feed to the fuge.

[Clownfish518]

Here is one of my tanks, where the water drains into a chamber (with filter sock), then to the refugium, and back to the tank



I started this tank with an HOB skimmer and ended up replacing it with a Euro Reef skimmer in the first chamber. Here is what it looked like some months later



This is my current sump on my current tank



I am using a recirculating skimmer with the feed pump in the same chamber as the return pump. So the water drains into the tank, goes through the refugium, and then some of the water is pumped through the skimmer, and most is returned to the tank

The second one does not have a DSB in the refugium. That's just because this is a sea grass tank, and has 5" of substrate in the DT along with sea grass. I prefer not to do a DSB in the DT on most tanks though.

I don't have any current pictures of it at the moment.

I just think this is an area that you can over think. As long as you have nitrates and phosphates, and light, you will get good growth in the refugium. If you have some water movement detritus will stay suspended (note the small maxi jet to the left in the pic above and how white the sand stayed).

Nitrates, phosphates, and light is the key. That's why there are so many refugium methods, HOB, upstream, etc. they all work. Some people prefer upstream refugiums that gravity feed back, so that pods don't get crushed by the return pumps. But anyone who has run a refugium in the sump knows that whether some pods get crushed or not, gazillions make it through the pumps to the DT without a scratch. As long as you have enough volume and enough light its hard to go wrong.

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by Clownfish518

Also, you may want to look at the glassholes.com overflow boxes. They drain out the back of the tank, and are sleeker and take up much less room. They use the same principle as a Durso (if you diagram it out they form the same inverted "J"). they are cheap, silent, and you can access the plumbing. Getting your arms into those corner overflows are a PITA.







Something you might want to consider. Well crafted too. Takes up so much less room in the tank

I LIKE this idea. I'm making noted to use this idea in my next tank build. I like the idea of not having all the plumbing IN the tank because it's a HUGE PITA.

How do you properly "size" the over-flow box? Is there a formula to do this? Say something like "X sqin per 10g tank capacity"?

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Originally Posted by BigAl07

I LIKE this idea. I'm making noted to use this idea in my next tank build. I like the idea of not having all the plumbing IN the tank because it's a HUGE PITA.

How do you properly "size" the over-flow box? Is there a formula to do this? Say something like "X sqin per 10g tank capacity"?

I think the major determiner of flow would be the size of the bulkheads and plumbing running to the sump/fuge. If the tubing is wide enough to accommodate the flow, then I think the overflow box will be able to keep up. If the box does get overwhelmed, the water will just rise above the "teeth" in the box and spill over that way.

[Clownfish518]

It all comes down to the GPH of flow you want. They make single and double overflows - I always go double so a snail can't clog up the works - who hasn't had that happen?

This one has two 2 3/8" holes to support 1.5" PVC drains, 1500 GPH. They have larger ones for 2" PVC, and smaller ones. Its all in the size of your return pump.

[Clownfish518]

Originally Posted by chipmunkofdoom2

I think the major determiner of flow would be the size of the bulkheads and plumbing running to the sump/fuge. If the tubing is wide enough to accommodate the flow, then I think the overflow box will be able to keep up. If the box does get overwhelmed, the water will just rise above the "teeth" in the box and spill over that way.

You can also get "granpa" boxes that come with no teeth. I use those for anemone tanks so they can't get sucked in. Need to plan for a little higher water level in the tank though

[BigAl07]

I completely understand the "bulk-Head" determining a good portion of the Over-Flow size and of course the GPH needed as well. I'm trying to decide if I want to attempt a Coast To Coast OF on my next set-up.

[Clownfish518]

Originally Posted by BigAl07

I completely understand the "bulk-Head" determining a good portion of the Over-Flow size and of course the GPH needed as well. I'm trying to decide if I want to attempt a Coast To Coast OF on my next set-up.

Can't advise there - never used one. I looked at them, but since I started using the GH overflow boxes on (this is the third tank), I just use them. Very pleased with the performance and noise levels. So coast to coast may be a better solution, but I am very happy with this one

[BigAl07]

I think the GH idea is a GREAT one and will really simplify access/tweaking issues with it all being IN-tank! I LOVE this idea!!

[SiNiStEr NaTiOn]

ok I'm on glass-holes.com right now and looking at the 1500gph kit. does this kit includes 2 bulkheads?

and the dart overflow kit that has 2" bulk heads (x2) what kind of gph would this one have, because it doesn't says.

I think for the flow I like to have on this 75g tank that I might go with the 1500 kit. Then ( kinda going off topic here) how would I figure on what size return pump I would need for a 1500 gph overflow?

[BigAl07]

You want to figure how much head-height you have first.... how far (in feet) does the pump have to push water.... distance from pump to highest point (over the edge of the tank etc) and then calculate your head-loss (Most pumps have a chart). Once you know this you want to get a pump that's slightly less than what your Over-Flow is rated for NEVER more