Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam?

Reefer31 · 03-07-2008, 10:47 PM

Hi all.

Was at my LFS today, just looking around to see what they had in stock. Unfortunatly they are replacing tanks so I didnt see much in the way of livestock.

However, I did get talking to one of the staff about reef tanks. He recomended that a Refugium with a substrate of miracle mud and plenty of Caulpera growth is a good idea, and he himself has had much success with it.

Now I have heard some bits and peice about this mud, and It seems a bit of a scam. $120 for 3-4 killos of the stuff (thats about 6-9 pounds) is a tall order. I canot help but wonder wether I would be better off setting a fuge up with mud I collect from the mudflats behind my house?
The stuff is probally the same, if not better, and would have way more life in it.

So, peoples thoughts on this so-called Miracle Mud?
Godsend, or marketing Scam?

Cheers,
Reefer31

zy112 · 03-07-2008, 10:52 PM

Youd be much better off having a DSB in your refugium.

zy112 · 03-07-2008, 10:55 PM

Also, that is some way over piced miracle mud. Should be 90 bucks for 10lbs

Reefer31 · 03-07-2008, 11:33 PM

Its more expensive over here, cause the Australian Government is scared to death of letting something bad into the country. Hence they dont like to import anythong organic, and like to irradiate anything that is.

Hence, the price.

Whats a DSB btw? Deep Sand Bed?

Reefer31

zy112 · 03-08-2008, 12:04 AM

Yea Deep Sand Bed

elliottb · 03-08-2008, 12:04 AM

a DSB sure would be a deep sand bed!

here are a few articles to take a look at.

http://www.miniaturereef.com/Deep%20Sand%20Beds.htm

Deep Sand Beds

DeepSandBeds

DSB article - CALFO

How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

The Natural Mud-Filter Method

elliottb · 03-08-2008, 12:05 AM

a DSB sure would be a deep sand bed!

here are a few articles to take a look at.

Deep Sand Beds

Deep Sand Beds

DeepSandBeds

DSB article - CALFO

How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

The Natural Mud-Filter Method

BoomerD · 03-08-2008, 12:46 AM

I'd vote for a 3rd choice in your poll...get good quality aragonite sand and make a DSB from that, NOT from beach sand nor miracle mud.
You MIGHT be able to use clean sand from the reef area, IF it's nice and clean, but you never know what kinds of pests or parasites you might bring with it...

Reefer31 · 03-08-2008, 12:57 AM

ok, so just go with a DSB? How deep? most recomendations have been between 3-6", what have people had success with?

Thanks for the articles elliottb, a great help.

Reefer31

NATIVEVAMAN · 03-08-2008, 07:06 AM

A lot of folks say "miracle muds" dont work because they cant "see" a difference in there tank.Even the above average and most studious aquarist doesnt have the means to test but for 4 or 5 of 40 or so most common trace elements.So I guess some of it has to be taken on faith.I dont see the use of these as the entire content of a dsb as being very practicle or needed,maybe 10 to 20% might be more resonable.Garf grundge has been used for years as one leg of the cure for "old tank syndrome"and it works.A warning about garf grundge,be prepared to bury it deeply in the sand bed as it is quite ugly.A 4 inch sanf bed seems to be just about the most workable depth.Even a 1 inch sand be will do some good for denitrification but it would lack the anaerobic layer that is so important.The article that Elliott sent by Rom Shimeck is the most recent and up to date.

elliottb · 03-08-2008, 09:10 AM

Sorry for the double post! Comp battery went out just as I clicked post. Then i turned it back on and this came up.

a DSB sure would be a deep sand bed!

here are a few articles to take a look at.

Deep Sand Beds

Deep Sand Beds

DeepSandBeds

DSB article - CALFO

How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

The Natural Mud-Filter Method

cheeks69 · 03-08-2008, 09:36 AM

Does it work ? Yes it does and I have seen some terrific looking tanks using this mud exclusively without a skimmer and it's quite impressive. Would the mud you collect be the same ? That I don't know but you could try it and see how it works out

SJS · 03-08-2008, 11:49 AM

I'm using some Miracle mud and GARF along with sand in my fuge(s) - more mud in the mangrove fuge - no scientific reason behind it - just seemed the most natural way to do it....

Reefer31 · 03-08-2008, 04:40 PM

When I get the test kits I need I will test some water thats had the mud from down there sitting in it and see if its got any nasties.

If I doesnt I might run the tank for a while then introduce it later to see if it has any good effects.

Thanks for the replies,
Reefer31

jhnrb · 03-08-2008, 10:25 PM

Im using miricle mud, kent marine bio sediment, and aragonite in my refugium with a depth of 3 inches.

View Poll Results: Is Miracle Mud worth the price? Or should I get mud from the ocean myself?
Buy it, It actually works!	5	71.43%
Save the money, and get it from the beach!	2	28.57%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

03-07-2008, 10:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Reefer31 Tunicate Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 17 View Gallery Karma Komment	Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Hi all. Was at my LFS today, just looking around to see what they had in stock. Unfortunatly they are replacing tanks so I didnt see much in the way of livestock. However, I did get talking to one of the staff about reef tanks. He recomended that a Refugium with a substrate of miracle mud and plenty of Caulpera growth is a good idea, and he himself has had much success with it. Now I have heard some bits and peice about this mud, and It seems a bit of a scam. $120 for 3-4 killos of the stuff (thats about 6-9 pounds) is a tall order. I canot help but wonder wether I would be better off setting a fuge up with mud I collect from the mudflats behind my house? The stuff is probally the same, if not better, and would have way more life in it. So, peoples thoughts on this so-called Miracle Mud? Godsend, or marketing Scam? Cheers, Reefer31

03-07-2008, 10:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
zy112 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: IN Posts: 984 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Youd be much better off having a DSB in your refugium. __________________ Zach

03-07-2008, 10:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
zy112 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: IN Posts: 984 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Also, that is some way over piced miracle mud. Should be 90 bucks for 10lbs __________________ Zach

03-07-2008, 11:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
Reefer31 Tunicate Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 17 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Its more expensive over here, cause the Australian Government is scared to death of letting something bad into the country. Hence they dont like to import anythong organic, and like to irradiate anything that is. Hence, the price. Whats a DSB btw? Deep Sand Bed? Reefer31

03-08-2008, 12:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
zy112 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: IN Posts: 984 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Yea Deep Sand Bed __________________ Zach

03-08-2008, 12:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
elliottb Cabbage Leather Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: nj Posts: 356 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? a DSB sure would be a deep sand bed! here are a few articles to take a look at. http://www.miniaturereef.com/Deep%20Sand%20Beds.htm Deep Sand Beds DeepSandBeds DSB article - CALFO How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com The Natural Mud-Filter Method __________________ save a reef, frag a coral Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. -someone- Anyone want to move? My tanks come with the home.... http://www.forsalebyowner.com/listing/18E85

03-08-2008, 12:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
elliottb Cabbage Leather Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: nj Posts: 356 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? a DSB sure would be a deep sand bed! here are a few articles to take a look at. Deep Sand Beds Deep Sand Beds DeepSandBeds DSB article - CALFO How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com The Natural Mud-Filter Method __________________ save a reef, frag a coral Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. -someone- Anyone want to move? My tanks come with the home.... http://www.forsalebyowner.com/listing/18E85

03-08-2008, 12:46 AM	#8 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,633 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? I'd vote for a 3rd choice in your poll...get good quality aragonite sand and make a DSB from that, NOT from beach sand nor miracle mud. You MIGHT be able to use clean sand from the reef area, IF it's nice and clean, but you never know what kinds of pests or parasites you might bring with it... __________________ Intelligence is not knowing all the answers, but knowing where and how to find them! www.google.com

03-08-2008, 12:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
Reefer31 Tunicate Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 17 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? ok, so just go with a DSB? How deep? most recomendations have been between 3-6", what have people had success with? Thanks for the articles elliottb, a great help. Reefer31

03-08-2008, 07:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
NATIVEVAMAN Serpent Star Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Richmond va Posts: 209 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? A lot of folks say "miracle muds" dont work because they cant "see" a difference in there tank.Even the above average and most studious aquarist doesnt have the means to test but for 4 or 5 of 40 or so most common trace elements.So I guess some of it has to be taken on faith.I dont see the use of these as the entire content of a dsb as being very practicle or needed,maybe 10 to 20% might be more resonable.Garf grundge has been used for years as one leg of the cure for "old tank syndrome"and it works.A warning about garf grundge,be prepared to bury it deeply in the sand bed as it is quite ugly.A 4 inch sanf bed seems to be just about the most workable depth.Even a 1 inch sand be will do some good for denitrification but it would lack the anaerobic layer that is so important.The article that Elliott sent by Rom Shimeck is the most recent and up to date.

03-08-2008, 09:10 AM	#11 (permalink)
elliottb Cabbage Leather Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: nj Posts: 356 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Sorry for the double post! Comp battery went out just as I clicked post. Then i turned it back on and this came up. a DSB sure would be a deep sand bed! here are a few articles to take a look at. Deep Sand Beds Deep Sand Beds DeepSandBeds DSB article - CALFO How Sandbeds REALLY Work by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com The Natural Mud-Filter Method __________________ save a reef, frag a coral Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. -someone- Anyone want to move? My tanks come with the home.... http://www.forsalebyowner.com/listing/18E85

03-08-2008, 09:36 AM	#12 (permalink)
cheeks69 Wannabe Guru Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northeast Posts: 6,630 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Does it work ? Yes it does and I have seen some terrific looking tanks using this mud exclusively without a skimmer and it's quite impressive. Would the mud you collect be the same ? That I don't know but you could try it and see how it works out __________________ Robert My Cube “A spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.” Albert Einstein

03-08-2008, 11:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
SJS Achilles Tang Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SO CAL - Rancho Cucamonga Posts: 823 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? I'm using some Miracle mud and GARF along with sand in my fuge(s) - more mud in the mangrove fuge - no scientific reason behind it - just seemed the most natural way to do it.... __________________ Steph 300 gallon dt, 90 gallon fuge, 35 gallon fuge, 35 gallon sump, 4 Ecotech Vortechs, T-5 lights

03-08-2008, 04:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Reefer31 Tunicate Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 17 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? When I get the test kits I need I will test some water thats had the mud from down there sitting in it and see if its got any nasties. If I doesnt I might run the tank for a while then introduce it later to see if it has any good effects. Thanks for the replies, Reefer31

03-08-2008, 10:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
jhnrb Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Eureka, CALIF. Posts: 477 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Miracle Mud...A Godsend or a Scam? Im using miricle mud, kent marine bio sediment, and aragonite in my refugium with a depth of 3 inches.

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