external or submersible pump???

[prow]

hey everyone. i am planning on building and fiq out all the plumbing for my sump/refugium this week. i have made many designs but can not get around my pump choices. so to get things rolling i need to decide, external or submersible pump. i have two overflows and will be running two return pumps. one for sump with skimmer the other for refugium. one of the pumps will be going through my chiller before returning to the DT, the other straight to DT. i can design the sumps for either external or submersible pump or maybe go with a submersible for return only pump and external for chiller flow.

my thoughts;
external pros-less heat production, less power used almost 1/2 i think, can use pressurized pumps for chiller, easy to clean. thats about it.

submersible pros-more water volume in sump, less plumbing, less noise(not sure though how much less)

external cons-more plumbing of course, less water volume but more usable sump area(maybe), more noise(maybe)

submersible cons- heat production, more power consumption, more wear/tear from Ca percipitates and things, uses up space in the sump.

any other thoughts?

[tbittner]

Why use a pressurized pump for the chiller? Most chillers, unless you have a BIG one, are low volume. Also, do you really want the chiller water going directly to the tank? That water is generaly quite a bit cooler then the rest of the water and wouldn't it cause shock for the livestock? I'm speculating but I think it would be best to mix the chilled water with the rest before sending it back to the DT.

Are external pumps too big for your application? I use an external pump only because I'm pumping from the basement up to the first floor so I needed a pump that can handle that huge head pressure.

You also need space for an external pump, so would that force you to use a smaller sump?

hmmmmm......

MORE INFO PLEASE!

[prow]

Originally Posted by tbittner

Why use a pressurized pump for the chiller? Most chillers, unless you have a BIG one, are low volume. Also, do you really want the chiller water going directly to the tank? That water is generaly quite a bit cooler then the rest of the water and wouldn't it cause shock for the livestock? I'm speculating but I think it would be best to mix the chilled water with the rest before sending it back to the DT.

i thought about that before. have my current set up like that. but dont think the corals will care. i have seen chillers on closed loops. the chiller would most likely only come on for a few weeks out of the year. not to worried about cool water water currents, its natural in the oceans too. the chiller is a arctica 1/3hp, currently i am using 1200gph submersible pump for a arctica 1/4hp and flow is reduced to at least half.

Are external pumps too big for your application? I use an external pump only because I'm pumping from the basement up to the first floor so I needed a pump that can handle that huge head pressure.

no, but they do take up some space. because of my Ca+reactor with CO2 tank though, i will be needing some room, may be a 10gallon diff in sump size-65 to a 55gal.

You also need space for an external pump, so would that force you to use a smaller sump?

yeah a little bit.

hmmmmm......

MORE INFO PLEASE!

mainly i am thinking power usage and heat production. i think with two submersible pumps the chiller would be comming on year around, not sure about this though.

ok i so picked the wrong tome to post this, I AM LATE for work, will add some more info later.

[prow]

more info, lets see. the tank is a 180gal with dual overflows. the stand is 36" tall so the pumps will need to push up 5'. the chillers flow rate is 500-1200gph, so i am shooting for 700gph after restrictions. i want to run about 700gph through each sump aswell. i already have the pumps, both external and submersible. so, its not about which pump to buy, its about which pumps to use. it has double overflows and i do want to/will be running separate sumps, one pump for refugium and one for skimmer sump. also the skimmer is a ASM G4xx with a sedra 15000(1500gph) pump.

just for FYI; the pumps i am debating about are that i have are
external;
Iwaki MD40 RLT (pressure pump,750gph at 4’)
Pan World 100XP (pressure pump,790gph at 4’)

or
submersible;
2x Sedra’s 12000 (1200gph at 1’)-if i go this route, most likey, i will use these two.
Sedra 7000 (700gph at 1’)
Sedra 5000 (500gph at 1’)
Danner Supreme Mag 12 (1200gph at 1’)

[tbittner]

Man, that's a tough choice. It doesn't look like any of the submersibles are big enough. What are the flow rates at 5 feet for these pumps? How many and what size bulkheads are in the overflows?

[prow]

wow only you, Terry, have any thoughts on external vs submersible pumps. mmmm, ok. i will be using 1.5" bulkheads. the sedra pumps will give me about 900gph after restrictions on a pretty straight shot to DT. i think either the sedra 1200gph or the external pumps will work. but which one hummmm, looks like i might just have to flip a coin and hope it goes well.

[tbittner]

Yeah, and that always makes me nervous when I'm the only one responding to a thread like this.

I personally would use an external pump. They will probably pump close to their rated volume. Your 1.5" bulkhead will drain a LOT more water than any of these pumps will be capable of pumping. Is that your intent?

(i know, you'll use a stockman pipe to keep the water level up and prevent the falling water sound)

[Frankie]

I am reading that the pan world pumps are very quiet. Now you can knock that off the con list. On my next tank i plan on having no sumersible pumps. I think they all suck. My amp master 3000 is the est pump i have ever had. Plumbed right you should not even know that is water moving by sound. I vote external!

[JWarren]

I was looking at this one for my 90 gal. Run everything off it.

Marine Aquarium and Coral Reef Aquatic Supplies from SeaQuest Marine

[tbittner]

That is a great pump, John! Nice find! What does "everything" mean?

[JWarren]

Fuge, skimmer as well as two lines up to the tank with directional heads.

[prow]

ahhh finally some more of the boys show up

Originally Posted by tbittner

Yeah, and that always makes me nervous when I'm the only one responding to a thread like this.

I personally would use an external pump. They will probably pump close to their rated volume. Your 1.5" bulkhead will drain a LOT more water than any of these pumps will be capable of pumping. Is that your intent?

(i know, you'll use a stockman pipe to keep the water level up and prevent the falling water sound)

yup, you know it love stockman pipes. and yeah i do want lots of extra play on the bulkheads, planning on adding a DT frag tank next to this tank later on.

Originally Posted by Frankie

I am reading that the pan world pumps are very quiet. Now you can knock that off the con list. On my next tank i plan on having no sumersible pumps. I think they all suck. My amp master 3000 is the est pump i have ever had. Plumbed right you should not even know that is water moving by sound. I vote external!

the pan world i did hook up in the bath tub a long time ago. i do remember it being pretty quiet, the iwaki have not tried but i think its close to the pan world.

Originally Posted by JWarren

Fuge, skimmer as well as two lines up to the tank with directional heads.

many do it like that. it works fine but i want the redundancy of sumps on seperate loops.


ok guys thanks, i will be going with the external pumps. i was leaning that way anyway just needed a little push over the edge.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by JWarren

I was looking at this one for my 90 gal. Run everything off it.

Marine Aquarium and Coral Reef Aquatic Supplies from SeaQuest Marine

Now that pump looks promising. I wonder if it could be used for my new skimmer. I was going to use a marlin.