Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid - Page 2

tbittner · 02-25-2008, 05:42 PM

Out of curiosity, now that you've calibrated your refract to the 53 mS calibration fluid, what reading do you get with RO/DI water?

vdituri · 02-26-2008, 12:03 AM

Good question.
Same as tap. Slightly under 1.000.
Regular tap water I don't think has enough contaminants to cause a change in the refractomer.

As I understand it, the refractomer is using the principal of light bending (refraction) of different substances. Like when you look through glass at an angle and the image looks like it is ofset. Saltwater bends the light to a different spot on the scale at different salt levels. Thicker fluids bend the light to a much higher degree. (Trivia: Glass it technically a liquid)

The refractomer isn't sensitive enough to measure the slight differences between tap, RO or distilled water. The pinpoint solution helps set the accuracy point closer to the point on the scale where we will be setting our salinity. The refractomer will not be 100% accurate throughout the entire scale. The pinpoint solution helps reduce the margin for error by getting your refractomer into the sweet spot.

I'm loving this discussion. Please feel free to disabuse me of any misconceptions.

Boomer · 02-26-2008, 01:56 AM

Ok Vic are you ready

Refractometers and Salinity Measurement
Refractometers and Salinity Measurement by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

What is Conductivity
Conductivity Theory and Technical Tips

What is TDS?
What is TDS? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Using Conductivity to Measure Salinity
AquariumFish.com :: Aquarium Fish International :: The monthly magazine for both novice and expert aquarium hobbyists.

Salinity Equation of State
Oceanogr. Notes Chapter 3

Note:

In this link above you will see the word "Density"

WARNING !!

Density is NOT Specific Gravity like on a hydrometer or refract. Seawater Density = 1.02334 ( given by the caculator as 23.34 and Seawater SG = 1.O264 or 26.40

vdituri · 02-26-2008, 11:04 AM

Boomer, you are too kind to us/me.

I have some reading to do.

vdituri · 02-26-2008, 11:57 PM

O.k. I read the ENTIRE refractometer page.
I am now God.
Well, not god. Just more educated.
Thank You Boomer Mister Chemistry.

What I've learned:
Refractometers CAN have manufacturing defects or poor quality parts that cause all readings to be off by the same amount. Calibrate with pinpoint solution in the range of seawater to adjust all readings closer to true.

They can also have defects causing them to be off by different amounts at different readings. Calibrate with pinpoint solution to reduce the margin for error.

There are different kinds of refratometers, Seawater, Saltwater and clinical.
Try to get yours in that order. Best are those specifically designed for seawater. If you can't afford that get one for use with saltwater. (no seawater and saltwater are not the same) (think trace elements and ions)

Look for a refractomer with a specific scale. 1.02 to ~1.03 would give you a very specific scale so you can get a more specific reading.
(mine is from 1.000 to 1.070, not easy to pinpoint the actual reading. Just a ballpark idea)

How'd I do Boomer? Am I moving in the right direction?

Boomer · 02-27-2008, 11:48 AM

Good vic and only 4 more to read

There are different kinds of refratometers, Seawater, Saltwater and clinical.

But a note. There is no such thing as a hand-held refract for Seawater. The closest is salt water. There has only been one of any kind of refract made for only seawater, a digital fiber optic by Misco and it was discontinued and it was ~$600. There are also many other kinds of refracts, sugar, Alcohol, antifrezze etc. Some companies say for seawater but they are still salt water refracts. There are some very expensive digital refracts that can test for almost anything you can use a refract for to include seawater.

vdituri · 02-27-2008, 03:55 PM

Yeah, my booklet has info on fruitjuices, antifreeze and all sorts of stuff that better not be in my tank. lol

Scouter Steve · 02-27-2008, 06:44 PM

Just wanna join the party here. Got my Pinpoint fluid to day along with new filters from The Filter Guys. I had never calibrated with pinpoint and was fearing what I might find. To my relief I was reading 1.027 with the fluid so I was off only by about .0005! Happy Reefer here.

vdituri · 02-27-2008, 07:27 PM

You lucked out better than I did.
Move that decimal right one place.

tbittner · 02-27-2008, 09:24 PM

Boomer, what is your opinion about the pinpoint salinity monitor? I've read the articles and reviews on it. I love mine and it's VERY accurate. It's really easy to use, and really easy to read. It doesn't leave an interpretation to come into play.

I still think it's money very well spent. For people who keep brackish water fish, it's also the product recommended for them because of the very low salinity of their water.

vdituri · 02-27-2008, 10:36 PM

Terry,
Does it factor in temperature?

tbittner · 02-27-2008, 10:54 PM

Yes. The instructions say to place it in the water, swirl it for a few seconds to clear any air bubbles, then give it two minutes for the probe temperature to get equal to the water temperature. Then read the salinity. I leave the probe in the water but turn off the box so I just turn on the box, take a reading, and turn the box back off.

Yes, it's ATC.

Boomer · 03-01-2008, 02:03 AM

Boomer, what is your opinion about the pinpoint salinity monitor? I've read the articles and reviews on it. I love mine and it's VERY accurate.

It is a good unit for what it does and the price but not for me

I want one that does the whole range RO/DI to Dead Sea water

Mine was ~$ 450, 10 years ago. The best one out there now for us is the...

Oakton ® Acorn TM CON 6 Conductivity Meter $ 296.00

Oakton Acorn CON 6, TDS 6, And SALT 6 Conductivity Meters And Oakton Acorn CON 6 Conductivity Meter - Cole-Parmer Catalog

boozeman · 03-01-2008, 09:10 AM

Boomer, Elos will be unveiling a lab grade conductivity meter at this years INTERZOO

Boomer · 03-01-2008, 11:22 AM

Well, I'll hve to wait till IMAC to see how good it is

02-25-2008, 05:42 PM	#16 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Out of curiosity, now that you've calibrated your refract to the 53 mS calibration fluid, what reading do you get with RO/DI water? __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

02-26-2008, 12:03 AM	#17 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,730 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Good question. Same as tap. Slightly under 1.000. Regular tap water I don't think has enough contaminants to cause a change in the refractomer. As I understand it, the refractomer is using the principal of light bending (refraction) of different substances. Like when you look through glass at an angle and the image looks like it is ofset. Saltwater bends the light to a different spot on the scale at different salt levels. Thicker fluids bend the light to a much higher degree. (Trivia: Glass it technically a liquid) The refractomer isn't sensitive enough to measure the slight differences between tap, RO or distilled water. The pinpoint solution helps set the accuracy point closer to the point on the scale where we will be setting our salinity. The refractomer will not be 100% accurate throughout the entire scale. The pinpoint solution helps reduce the margin for error by getting your refractomer into the sweet spot. I'm loving this discussion. Please feel free to disabuse me of any misconceptions. __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

02-26-2008, 01:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,154 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Ok Vic are you ready Refractometers and Salinity Measurement Refractometers and Salinity Measurement by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com What is Conductivity Conductivity Theory and Technical Tips What is TDS? What is TDS? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com Using Conductivity to Measure Salinity AquariumFish.com :: Aquarium Fish International :: The monthly magazine for both novice and expert aquarium hobbyists. Salinity Equation of State Oceanogr. Notes Chapter 3 Note: In this link above you will see the word "Density" WARNING !! Density is NOT Specific Gravity like on a hydrometer or refract. Seawater Density = 1.02334 ( given by the caculator as 23.34 and Seawater SG = 1.O264 or 26.40 __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

02-26-2008, 11:04 AM	#19 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,730 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Boomer, you are too kind to us/me. I have some reading to do. __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

02-26-2008, 11:57 PM	#20 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,730 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid O.k. I read the ENTIRE refractometer page. I am now God. Well, not god. Just more educated. Thank You Boomer Mister Chemistry. What I've learned: Refractometers CAN have manufacturing defects or poor quality parts that cause all readings to be off by the same amount. Calibrate with pinpoint solution in the range of seawater to adjust all readings closer to true. They can also have defects causing them to be off by different amounts at different readings. Calibrate with pinpoint solution to reduce the margin for error. There are different kinds of refratometers, Seawater, Saltwater and clinical. Try to get yours in that order. Best are those specifically designed for seawater. If you can't afford that get one for use with saltwater. (no seawater and saltwater are not the same) (think trace elements and ions) Look for a refractomer with a specific scale. 1.02 to ~1.03 would give you a very specific scale so you can get a more specific reading. (mine is from 1.000 to 1.070, not easy to pinpoint the actual reading. Just a ballpark idea) How'd I do Boomer? Am I moving in the right direction? __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

02-27-2008, 11:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,154 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Good vic and only 4 more to read There are different kinds of refratometers, Seawater, Saltwater and clinical. But a note. There is no such thing as a hand-held refract for Seawater. The closest is salt water. There has only been one of any kind of refract made for only seawater, a digital fiber optic by Misco and it was discontinued and it was ~$600. There are also many other kinds of refracts, sugar, Alcohol, antifrezze etc. Some companies say for seawater but they are still salt water refracts. There are some very expensive digital refracts that can test for almost anything you can use a refract for to include seawater. __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

02-27-2008, 03:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,730 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Yeah, my booklet has info on fruitjuices, antifreeze and all sorts of stuff that better not be in my tank. lol __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

02-27-2008, 06:44 PM	#23 (permalink)
Scouter Steve Neon dottyback Join Date: May 2006 Location: Somers Wisconsin (Kenosha County) Posts: 683 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Just wanna join the party here. Got my Pinpoint fluid to day along with new filters from The Filter Guys. I had never calibrated with pinpoint and was fearing what I might find. To my relief I was reading 1.027 with the fluid so I was off only by about .0005! Happy Reefer here.

02-27-2008, 07:27 PM	#24 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,730 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid You lucked out better than I did. Move that decimal right one place. __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

02-27-2008, 09:24 PM	#25 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Boomer, what is your opinion about the pinpoint salinity monitor? I've read the articles and reviews on it. I love mine and it's VERY accurate. It's really easy to use, and really easy to read. It doesn't leave an interpretation to come into play. I still think it's money very well spent. For people who keep brackish water fish, it's also the product recommended for them because of the very low salinity of their water. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

02-27-2008, 10:36 PM	#26 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,730 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Terry, Does it factor in temperature? __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

02-27-2008, 10:54 PM	#27 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Yes. The instructions say to place it in the water, swirl it for a few seconds to clear any air bubbles, then give it two minutes for the probe temperature to get equal to the water temperature. Then read the salinity. I leave the probe in the water but turn off the box so I just turn on the box, take a reading, and turn the box back off. Yes, it's ATC. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

03-01-2008, 02:03 AM	#28 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,154 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Boomer, what is your opinion about the pinpoint salinity monitor? I've read the articles and reviews on it. I love mine and it's VERY accurate. It is a good unit for what it does and the price but not for me I want one that does the whole range RO/DI to Dead Sea water Mine was ~$ 450, 10 years ago. The best one out there now for us is the... Oakton ® Acorn TM CON 6 Conductivity Meter $ 296.00 Oakton Acorn CON 6, TDS 6, And SALT 6 Conductivity Meters And Oakton Acorn CON 6 Conductivity Meter - Cole-Parmer Catalog __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

03-01-2008, 09:10 AM	#29 (permalink)
boozeman The CodFather ~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: new york Posts: 8,800 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Boomer, Elos will be unveiling a lab grade conductivity meter at this years INTERZOO __________________ ...and when I'm old and wise little things mean little to me like autumn winds they'll blow right through me and someday, in the mist of time when they ask you if you knew me remember that you were a friend of mine

03-01-2008, 11:22 AM	#30 (permalink)
Boomer Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 2,154 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Calibrating Refractometer with Pinpoint Fluid Well, I'll hve to wait till IMAC to see how good it is __________________ Boomer Want to Talk Chemistry ! The Reef Chemistry Forum Want to See More ! The Coral Realm If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

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