Quick newbie sump plumbing question...

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 12:22 PM

Hey everyone,

If i pipe water directly down from the tank to the sump...how do you get water across the sump, over and through the refugium and back up to the tank? It seems like water flow wouldnt be strong enough and would either move to slow or overflow some other part of the sump. How do you effectively move water through the refugium and how do you keep the return clean if the return is mounted after the refugium? Do you house the return pump in its own special overflow-type box?

this is what i was thinking..

overflow(tank)-->sump--> filtered through a sock--->skimmer-->baffles (2? or 4?) -->refugium--->return pump (the refugium/return is the area that is a mystery to me..)

This will all be house in a 20 gallon tank (hopefully)

Thanks!! The help is REALLLLLY appreciated...

I am thinking about getting an ASM G1 skimmer for the sump, just to let you know.

Cheers,
Sean

ReefGuy69 · 12-17-2007, 01:31 PM

i would say 2 baffles is effective any more and its pointless. usually you have a seperate area for the fuge, and use a baffle or some other method like down drain for the fuge to drain into the return area. Check out Melevs page... i think its Melevsreef.com - Welcome! he has plenty of cool pictures and diagrams that will help you. I built mine from one of his and it came out great. you can also check out my pics and see how i rigged mine up. but everything else your doing looks great.

lcstorc · 12-17-2007, 03:13 PM

Lots of good stuff at Melevs. I have always preferred the style with the skimmer and other equipment on one side, the fuge on the other side and the return area in the middle. Then you can route some of the water to the skimmer and run a smaller amount through the fuge since the fuge likes slow flow.

BigAl07 · 12-17-2007, 03:25 PM

I'm with Lynn on this one. I have my tank draining into the Sump but I have a small amount "Teed" off to feed the fuge which then feeds via gravity into the main sump/return areas. This way the skimmer AND the Fuge get freshly "tainted" (aka un-filtered) water.

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 05:02 PM

If i setup a 20 gallon tank for a sump, where do i get/cut the arcyllic pieces to silicon in? should i just make an acryllic tank?

EDIT!

just found out glass is a bad idea for a sump due to fluctuating water levels...now how the hell do you guys build sumps from acryllic? ive been to melves site but do you guys cut all your own stuff or do you have people build it for you?

corrado007 · 12-17-2007, 05:18 PM

If you're referring to baffles for the sump you would most likely be best off if you use the same type of material for the baffles as the sump is made out of. If you have an acrylic sump you can easily cut some baffles to fit or have it done at a plastic shop. If it's a glass tank you can just have a glass shop cut you the right size pieces or you can cut some yourself, there are glass "how to cut" videos on you tube and it's really easy. That's where I learned to cut glass when I was making my first sump baffles. The reason that I've heard of for using the same materials when making baffles is because they can expand and contract at different rates. I've not actually seen this to be a problem but I've heard you can crack a glass tank if you use acrylic baffles that are tight fitting and they expand faster. Hope that helps.

corrado007 · 12-17-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfi

If i setup a 20 gallon tank for a sump, where do i get/cut the arcyllic pieces to silicon in? should i just make an acryllic tank?

EDIT!

just found out glass is a bad idea for a sump due to fluctuating water levels...now how the hell do you guys build sumps from acryllic? ive been to melves site but do you guys cut all your own stuff or do you have people build it for you?

I don't know how I missed this edit. Why would glass be a bad idea for a sump? I've got a 40gal glass sump under my 90 and it works fine. I've also known many people who have glass sumps as well. It's fairly common practice to use a simple glass tank and add glass baffles. You should be able to do that with no problem at all. If you do decide to go with acrylic, yes you can cut it yourself. It's fairly easy with a little bit of practice to use a score and break method to "cut" acrylic or you can use an electric saw. If you do decide to go that route you should use weldon, a product that bonds acrylic extremely well(not a glue but rather a solvent of sorts). You could have it done but it would likely be fairly expensive. I've bought $10 30gal used tanks off craig's list and with $10 in glass from a hardware store just made my own baffles and wallah! You have a sump. Good luck

ReefGuy69 · 12-17-2007, 06:13 PM

I bought a 4x8 sheet of acrylic from a local store. The sheet cost me about $100. It was enough to make 2 sumps IMO. but i made one and have plenty of extra. I cut it all myself with a table saw. it was really easy to do. just make sure you measure twice and cut once. I had a hard time getting my hand on Weldon. So i used basically what they use for fish tanks to seal them together. Im keeping my fingers crossed it works. So far no leaks and its been a few months put together and a few weeks filled with water. I like doing the stuff DIY because that was you can customize it to your needs. and its pretty costly to have someone else do what your probably able to do on your own.

corrado007 · 12-17-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefGuy69

I like doing the stuff DIY because that was you can customize it to your needs. and its pretty costly to have someone else do what your probably able to do on your own.

Well put, I'm with you on that one!

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 08:33 PM

i heard that glass sumps can deteriorate due to constantly fluctuating water levels

ReefGuy69 · 12-17-2007, 08:42 PM

i would disagree with that.. (glass sumps deteriorate) your water level will stay constant in your sump, so that throws that theory out the window.. and even if it this was case that some compartments may not be at the same water level (due to baffles and different set ups) still wouldnt make any sense to me. the glass tank is made to hold water as a full tank. as a sump portions may not be completley filled with water. thus there is less force or pressure on the tank then it was originally made for. you will be fine either way you decide. many have glass sumps and they work out just well. maybe the story you have heard of was someone who built it shabby or something.

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 09:27 PM

sweet thanks! that clears that up and makes it muchhhhh easier!

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 09:28 PM

is there anything that you would change with this 20g sump design...it just so happens that this is the size of the sump i would want for my 40

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 09:28 PM

is there anything that you would change with this 20g sump design...it just so happens that this is the size of the sump i would want for my 40!!!

lowfi · 12-17-2007, 09:30 PM

is there anything that you would change with this 20g sump design?...it just so happens that this is the size of the sump i would want for my 40!!!

Melevsreef.com - DIY Glass Sump & Refugium

i know i know its on melevsreef and you all think he is god...please critique!!! If there is anything you would change let me know!

cheers,
sean

12-17-2007, 12:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Quick newbie sump plumbing question... Hey everyone, If i pipe water directly down from the tank to the sump...how do you get water across the sump, over and through the refugium and back up to the tank? It seems like water flow wouldnt be strong enough and would either move to slow or overflow some other part of the sump. How do you effectively move water through the refugium and how do you keep the return clean if the return is mounted after the refugium? Do you house the return pump in its own special overflow-type box? this is what i was thinking.. overflow(tank)-->sump--> filtered through a sock--->skimmer-->baffles (2? or 4?) -->refugium--->return pump (the refugium/return is the area that is a mystery to me..) This will all be house in a 20 gallon tank (hopefully) Thanks!! The help is REALLLLLY appreciated... I am thinking about getting an ASM G1 skimmer for the sump, just to let you know. Cheers, Sean

12-17-2007, 01:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
ReefGuy69 Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 746 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... i would say 2 baffles is effective any more and its pointless. usually you have a seperate area for the fuge, and use a baffle or some other method like down drain for the fuge to drain into the return area. Check out Melevs page... i think its Melevsreef.com - Welcome! he has plenty of cool pictures and diagrams that will help you. I built mine from one of his and it came out great. you can also check out my pics and see how i rigged mine up. but everything else your doing looks great.

12-17-2007, 03:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 17,965 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... Lots of good stuff at Melevs. I have always preferred the style with the skimmer and other equipment on one side, the fuge on the other side and the return area in the middle. Then you can route some of the water to the skimmer and run a smaller amount through the fuge since the fuge likes slow flow. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back.

12-17-2007, 03:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,340 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... I'm with Lynn on this one. I have my tank draining into the Sump but I have a small amount "Teed" off to feed the fuge which then feeds via gravity into the main sump/return areas. This way the skimmer AND the Fuge get freshly "tainted" (aka un-filtered) water. __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

12-17-2007, 05:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... If i setup a 20 gallon tank for a sump, where do i get/cut the arcyllic pieces to silicon in? should i just make an acryllic tank? EDIT! just found out glass is a bad idea for a sump due to fluctuating water levels...now how the hell do you guys build sumps from acryllic? ive been to melves site but do you guys cut all your own stuff or do you have people build it for you? Last edited by lowfi : 12-17-2007 at 05:06 PM. Reason: just found a change...

12-17-2007, 05:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
corrado007 Plate Coral Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sacramento, Ca. Posts: 704 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... If you're referring to baffles for the sump you would most likely be best off if you use the same type of material for the baffles as the sump is made out of. If you have an acrylic sump you can easily cut some baffles to fit or have it done at a plastic shop. If it's a glass tank you can just have a glass shop cut you the right size pieces or you can cut some yourself, there are glass "how to cut" videos on you tube and it's really easy. That's where I learned to cut glass when I was making my first sump baffles. The reason that I've heard of for using the same materials when making baffles is because they can expand and contract at different rates. I've not actually seen this to be a problem but I've heard you can crack a glass tank if you use acrylic baffles that are tight fitting and they expand faster. Hope that helps. __________________ Justin 90gal mixed reef w/40gal sump/fuge, ATO, NW-200 Skimmer, 2x 250W 10k Reeflux MH & 220W VHO actinics, Koralia #4 & #3, Mag 9.5 return, Aquacontroller jr., LR & LS, and community fish (Yellow Assessor, Bluespot Jawfish, Paired O clowns, Hippo tang, Orchid Dottyback, Yellow Watchman Goby, Neon Goby, Chromis, and a Zebra Dartfish) Here's my 90gal Chronicle (Lots of pictures and DIY)

12-17-2007, 06:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
ReefGuy69 Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 746 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... I bought a 4x8 sheet of acrylic from a local store. The sheet cost me about $100. It was enough to make 2 sumps IMO. but i made one and have plenty of extra. I cut it all myself with a table saw. it was really easy to do. just make sure you measure twice and cut once. I had a hard time getting my hand on Weldon. So i used basically what they use for fish tanks to seal them together. Im keeping my fingers crossed it works. So far no leaks and its been a few months put together and a few weeks filled with water. I like doing the stuff DIY because that was you can customize it to your needs. and its pretty costly to have someone else do what your probably able to do on your own.

12-17-2007, 08:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... i heard that glass sumps can deteriorate due to constantly fluctuating water levels

12-17-2007, 08:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
ReefGuy69 Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 746 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... i would disagree with that.. (glass sumps deteriorate) your water level will stay constant in your sump, so that throws that theory out the window.. and even if it this was case that some compartments may not be at the same water level (due to baffles and different set ups) still wouldnt make any sense to me. the glass tank is made to hold water as a full tank. as a sump portions may not be completley filled with water. thus there is less force or pressure on the tank then it was originally made for. you will be fine either way you decide. many have glass sumps and they work out just well. maybe the story you have heard of was someone who built it shabby or something.

12-17-2007, 09:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... sweet thanks! that clears that up and makes it muchhhhh easier!

12-17-2007, 09:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... is there anything that you would change with this 20g sump design...it just so happens that this is the size of the sump i would want for my 40

12-17-2007, 09:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... is there anything that you would change with this 20g sump design...it just so happens that this is the size of the sump i would want for my 40!!!

12-17-2007, 09:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
lowfi Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 95 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Quick newbie sump plumbing question... is there anything that you would change with this 20g sump design?...it just so happens that this is the size of the sump i would want for my 40!!! Melevsreef.com - DIY Glass Sump & Refugium i know i know its on melevsreef and you all think he is god...please critique!!! If there is anything you would change let me know! cheers, sean

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