Sump vs. wet/dry

[rebekwl]

While at our LFS on Saturady my husband asked for advice on building his own sump. The guy we use told us he could build us one for $200. He also has a used wet/dry filter he's willing to sell us for $150. What are the pros and cons of each? Is either one better than the other?? Right now we have a 100 gal HOB filter on our 55 gal. I have learned that HOBs aren't recommended for salt water tanks, so we want to get the most reliable filter we can. The problem is, we don't know much about either!! Thanks for any advice!!!

[blue_eyes53813]

What size sump will it be? And can you put all of your equipment needed in the sump? If so you probably wont need the filter at all..

[cheeks69]

I would avoid the wet/dry as I posted in the other topic these are built for a bio-ball setup and don't leave alot of room for a quality in-sump skimmer. What is the dimensions of your stand ? This website gives ya some ideas if you want to build it yourself and although done in acrylic you can also use a glass tank and have holes and baffles cut your your local glass company.

Melev's Reef - Model G (modified)

[rebekwl]

There is a huge amount of space underneath our stand. I think he was talking about doing a 20 gal, but we could deffinitely fit a 30 gal if we needed to. He mentioned that the wet/dry he is offering has a built in skimmer, I'm not aure about the quality. He said he used ot use it and he thinks it's a great filter. Can you put the live rock and cheato in a wet/dry?? I've also heard that bio balls are nitrate factories. Is this true as well?? Thanks guys!!

[cheeks69]

I have seen the skimmers that usually come with those wet/dry's and I wouldn't consider them to be real good, is it an Amiracle wet/dry ? If using enough Live Rock then yes bio-balls should be avoided particularly if your thinking about a reef. I would also go with the largest sump possible and implement a refugium using LR and cheato or other macro-algae for nutrient export.

[rebekwl]

I'm not to sure of the brand, I will have to ask him. I will also ask him about the quality of the skimmer. Is it recommended to have a sump AND a wet/ dry at the same time? I believe my husband was thinking of just using the wet/dry system. I will tell him to reconsider if this is not recommended. Thanks!!

[cheeks69]

Well if he's trying to sell it to ya he may not be totally honest so take that into consideration.

Is it recommended to have a sump AND a wet/ dry at the same time?

No the wet/dry is a sump setup for bio-balls. If using the proper amount of Live Rock then bio-balls are unnecessary and they will actually work against the live rock since most of the anaerobic bacteria will colonize the bio-balls.

[rebekwl]

I have 55lbs of LR in my 55gal tank. Does it sound like that is enough to bypass the bio-balls?? Is it possible to put cheato and LR in the actually wet/dry fliter? Sorry, I really have no clue about these things!!

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by rebekwl

I have 55lbs of LR in my 55gal tank. Does it sound like that is enough to bypass the bio-balls??

Is the LR porous ? Do you know the place of origin of the rock {fiji, Marshall, Lalo etc.} ? Or do you have dead base rock ? Do you have a sand bed and if so how deep is it ?

Is it possible to put cheato and LR in the actually wet/dry fliter?

It really depends on the size of the sump. I have seen people use LR and algae in these types of sumps but the design can be difficult, it's really much easier to build your own. Oceanic which builds tanks also makes some good sumps if you don't want to make your own check your LFS it should be cheaper then the wet/dry they're trying to sell ya. There's also a guy on EBAY that builds/sells aquarium sumps.

[cheeks69]

Here's some more great info on sumps:

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sumps, Part I by Greg Taylor - Reefkeeping.com

[rebekwl]

Originally Posted by cheeks69

Is the LR porous ? Do you know the place of origin of the rock {fiji, Marshall, Lalo etc.} ? Or do you have dead base rock ? Do you have a sand bed and if so how deep is it?

All of our rock is Fiji. Most of it is pretty solid. There are a few pieces in there with holes in them, but they are not very porous at all. I'm not sure what "dead Base" rock is, but it looks like alot of the coraline algae is dying off of the rocks i got a few weeks ago The one I just got a few days ago has TONS of it on there though, so hopefully it will spread instead of die. We have a sand bed that is aprox 3" deep.

I will deffinitely check into Oceanic and see what they have to offer. We aren't looking to spend a whole lot of $. We don't have a skimmer as of now though so the system he has with in included sounds pretty good as far as $ is concerned.

Thanks for the article, I'm reading it now, very interesting so far!!

[cheeks69]

If you get a good skimmer then the amount of rock and the depth of sand will suffice.
This is an expensive hobby and as I have learned long ago it's better to spend a little more the first time then to buy inferior equipment and have to keep upgrading. If the wet/dry your LFS is selling is the Amiracle as I suspect it is, the skimmer isn't good quality.

[lcstorc]

Save the money on the wet dry and get a good skimmer instead. The wet dry will be nothing but hastle and nitrates. The biggest difference between LR and a wet/dry is quite simply the word dry. The anaobic bacteria which reduced niitrates into a gas only lives underwater in low to no oxygen areas. That is why we use LR that is completely submerged instead of bio-balls ina wet/dry system. If you want a FO setup then they are fine since fish can tolerate the nitrates. With a reef and particularly with the anemone you have your system cannot tolerate the nitrates that will be left in your system if using bio-balls.
Keep in mind that the guy who says it is such a great system is trying to sell it to you. Of course he will say it is a good skimmer. Look on-line and get yourself a good skimmer and an empty tank for the sump a few pieces of acrylic and some sealer and PVC parts and you are set. Check out our DIY section and melevsreef.com for examples and directions on how others have done this project.
BTW the corraline looks good but that is not what is really important about the LR. The important parts you actually can't see since it is bacteria that populates the inside pores of the rock. Not necesarily the big holes either but more the itty bitty holes inside the rock.

[rebekwl]

I will check with him on the brand. I totally agree as far as continuously upgrading thigs. We already spend over $100 on a HOB filter because we didn't know that they really aren't any good for SW tanks! We want to try to do things the right way from now on! Thanks for your great advice!!

[rebekwl]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

Save the money on the wet dry and get a good skimmer instead. The wet dry will be nothing but hastle and nitrates. The biggest difference between LR and a wet/dry is quite simply the word dry. The anaobic bacteria which reduced niitrates into a gas only lives underwater in low to no oxygen areas. That is why we use LR that is completely submerged instead of bio-balls ina wet/dry system. If you want a FO setup then they are fine since fish can tolerate the nitrates. With a reef and particularly with the anemone you have your system cannot tolerate the nitrates that will be left in your system if using bio-balls.
Keep in mind that the guy who says it is such a great system is trying to sell it to you. Of course he will say it is a good skimmer. Look on-line and get yourself a good skimmer and an empty tank for the sump a few pieces of acrylic and some sealer and PVC parts and you are set. Check out our DIY section and melevsreef.com for examples and directions on how others have done this project.
BTW the corraline looks good but that is not what is really important about the LR. The important parts you actually can't see since it is bacteria that populates the inside pores of the rock. Not necesarily the big holes either but more the itty bitty holes inside the rock.

I surely do not want to have to worry about the bio balls and everything, so we will deffinitely consider the sump instead. We have looked at lots of sump plans but they all look completely foreign and difficult to us, so I think my hubby would rather have someone else build it, or buy one. I'm going to look around and see what I can find as far as having one built for as low cost as possible. We will deffinitely check out the DIY to see what is in there though. Maybe we can find something a little simpler than we have seen so far!! Thanks alot for all your help!!