DIY sump set-up, HELP!

[Maxx]

Hey guys,
I'm gonna attempt to answer the questions in the order they were asked....

how do you make the overflow box etc.

Well, to be honest there are several ways to do this.
In one version, you dont need an overflow box. The plumbing comes straight out of the tank, (either back wall or from bottom of tank in some commercially available models...marineland for example). ReefLady has done this on her tank at home. She has (I think, cant find the pics...going from memory here), three 90 degree elbows mounted to bulkheads in her tank. The elbows are at an angle and capped of w/ strainers/plastic mesh grills to ensure nothing gets sucked down stream that shouldn't. Her return is mounted the same way...just off the back wall of the tank. (edit...Reef Lady was kind enough to give her pics to show what exactly I'm talking about ...link in the post below)
I don't particularly like the Marineland version which is just a piece of Plumbing rising up from the base of the tank, the return is the same way. My rationale is this...anytime you make a hole in a fragile/ breakable material, (in this case glass), you weaken the overall strength of the structure. In most cases this is okay, Engineers are smarter than most people and they realize that the rest of us are generally gonna go do something stupid and test the limits of whatever it is they design, (like drilling holes in otherwise perfectly good aquarium glass). So they typically over-engineer whatever it is they plan to make...A friend of mine (who's a mechanical engineer) calls it the moron factor. According to Stuart, "If any moron can walk up to it, (whatever it is) and break it w/o half trying, you did'nt build it right."
However, w/ that big hole that is drilled thru the bottom of the tank and connected by a length of exposed plumbing, (which will act like a lever when you REALLY don't want it to) with no real way of protecting it should a rock tumble, your dogs get too rambunctious, you live in the great state of Confusion, uh...California, and have to deal w/ earthquakes, etc. I just don't like the lack of protection that the exposed pipe has. One fall/bend/twist etc, and bang, now you've broken the bulkhead that its connected to and your tank is draining out onto your floor, and ya can't stop that cause its on the bottom of the tank.
The overflows like RL hasdont really have that same problem. The plumbing attached to them is much shorter, (More force required to cause damage due to less leverage available) and they are mounted high enough up that if you do go all crazy and crack the bulkhead, you've got more time to find a solution. You will lose some water, but hopefully not nearly as much.
This is not to say that bulkheads mounted on the bottom are bad, I just want 'em protected by a nice wall...which (finally) gets us to answering your question....I plan on buying mine .(edit link in post below). I don't have experiance w/ molding/cutting or shaping acrylic just yet, so I'm cheesin out. Melev does some good work w/ acrylic and he might be able to help you out more than I ever could, (edit... just to be different... the link to Melev's site is in the post below)

i see that there's a prefilter in the overflow

Just make sure you can get to it for cleaning purposes. If you cant get to it easily, you won't clean it regularly, then it becomes a crap trap. Now instead of floating around your tank where it reminds you to get rid of it, the crap is stuck in an invisible spot quietly rotting and polluting your tank.
Hope that answers your questions Strat....

What is an optimum flow rate for the refugium. As a ratio so we can make it fit all tanks.

It really depends on what your doing...If you want contact time like I'm going for in order to export nuisance algae nutrients , I'm planning on at least 2-3 x tank volume an hour. So in my case (20 gallon refugium) 40-60 gph. I may decide to bump this up or down depending on my experiences w/ this set up. Right now, my refugium/sump has a turnover rate of at least 10x and I dont think I'm getting all the benefits of a refugium/ nutrient export that I could be. If your really suing it like a refugium and keeping somethin in there for living purposes, its needs will dictate.
Does this make sense?
Nick

[Maxx]

allright once again.....this guy can help you out w/ overflows and acrylic work probably.....http://www.melevsreef.com/
here is where I'm buying my overflow from....http://www.wetdryfilter.com/internal_overflow_boxes.htm
And here is a pic of the overflows in Teri's tank...http://home.comcast.net/%7E76fxe/plumb4.jpg
Here is the Link to Teri/Reef Lady's home aquarium.....http://home.comcast.net/~76fxe/

[Maxx]

Don't know why that didnt work the first time...I betcha its cause I was trying to get all high speed and cool w/ the hyper links....
what a moron.....lol
Nick

[skeletor121]

I have got another question for you regarding power failures and sumps. As an added backup to drilling the return line, would it be possible to plumb an "oops" tank/drain line? What I am thinking of is possibly drilling a hole about half an inch below the top of the sump (if you have the freeboard in the sump) that would allow all the excess water to escape if the power shuts down? I was thinking of possilby having it empty into a drain (ideal) or possibly another tank/container that is set lower than the top of the sump. This would allow the excess water to flow into the drain/container by gravity. Any thoughts on this?

[Maxx]

neat idea,
But now your gonna have to raise the sump off the floor, in order to create the height difference necessary. The only problem I see w/ that is lack of verticle space in most stand designs. Another thing to think about is the potential for leakage along any joint or seal in plumbing. I like that you're thinking outside the box.
But wouldnt it be more practical, (and safer) to just ensure that the sump could handle the excess water in the event of a power outage?
In all honesty, I like redundancy. More chances to CYA...with that in mind the stand I've been working on for my upcoming tank, will incorporate a wooden box at the base which is waterproofed, (8 gazillion coats poly urethane!) that exists soley to catch any water that the sump doesnt hold. I estimate theat it will hold approx 21 gallons w/o my sump in it.....10-12 gallons w/ the stand crammed full of my tank accessories, (refugium, sump, reactor..etc)
Keep it up though,
you guys are really coming up w/ some great questions and some cool ideas!
Nick

[skeletor121]

Yeah, I know about the downsides of the system I mentioned. I was thinking this could be of use to those people who have sumps located in another room, like in a garage or something, that has a drain in the floor. This would allow them to have a redundant system that wouldn't get their floor all wet. This would also be a good idea in case one of the overflow boxes failed and started to let in all of the water into the overlow tube (the ones drilled to the bottom of the tank).

I like your thought on your new stand. Maybe I will incorporate that into my stand. I have a stand that came with my tank, but it needs some work. Maybe I will put some type of liner in it to make sure I have a back up.

[Maxx]

Yeah, I know about the downsides of the system I mentioned. I was thinking this could be of use to those people who have sumps located in another room, like in a garage or something, that has a drain in the floor. This would allow them to have a redundant system that wouldn't get their floor all wet.

I honestly hadnt thought in that direction. I was thinking in regards to my own current set up...lol...here I am telling you guys to think outside the box, and I'm not!
Thats a good idea...I may have to keep this in mind for future plans...
Nick

[strat]

once again, thanks maxx and skeletor. ive been too busy to reply for awhile. anyways, the wike beckons.... cya

strat

[grayFish]

Maxx thanks for all the good info. I now have a good idea how to set-up a sump & refugium. I probably won't be able to start this project 'till next year (going to the Philippines for vacation in a cuople of weeks).

I've learned so much, thanks again!

[Maxx]

going to the Philippines for vacation

OHHHHH!!!! I hate you!!!!!
I would love to go the Philipines!!!
I have spent the last 5 years training in the Filipino/ Indonesian martial arts, and would love to finally experiance the culture first hand that has had such a positive influence in my life!!!! Unfortunately, being 6'3 and looking incredibly Irish, (cause, well I am...), I don't necessarily blend in w/ the local populace. This is really only a problem when you realize that a large portion of the Philipines is Muslim, and a large portion of the Muslim world has a serious problem w/ the US foreign policy...I would love to visit one day!!! What part of the Philipines are you visiting???
I'm very jealous....please lie to me when you return and tell me that you had NO fun whatsoever, and didnt enjoy yourself at all!!!
Nick

[wooddood]

maxx you the man,thanks i learn so much from you,thank you.

[Maxx]

thanks i learn so much from you,thank you.

I appreciate all the kind words, but I hope you guys know you are teaching me too. Everytime we have an exchange of ideas, or a new round of questions I learn something. Hopefully we all do, otherwise you guys are getting the short end of the stick
So I guess I'm saying thank you to all of you. Because you guys force me to think of things I might not consider on my own, so this really is a learning situation for all involved.
To be honest, its not like woke up knowing all this stuff. I had to ask questions just like everyone else. Just remember to pay back the newer people in the hobby later on by sharing your hard earned knowledge. Thats all I'm doing, returning favors granted to me earlier!
Happy day after Thanksgiving guys!
Nick

[grayFish]

Yeah Maxx I spend my X-mas and New Year there for five straight years now. I will be going to Luzon island, the city is called Bataan (it's about 60 miles away from Manila and 10 miles away from Subic Bay, Olongapo). I will be way too far away from those Muslims, they're in the Southern Island called Mindanao, it sucks 'cause that's where all the nice beaches. Of course I can't go 'cause they will either skinned you alive or reap your head off if your a christian.

And Maxx BTW, I think only about 10% of Filipino's are Muslim and mostly Christians.

[Maxx]

Grayfish,
I was in the Marines for 4 years. One of the many history classes you get in boot camp is over Bataan, so I'm familiar w/ where its located. A friend of mine is originally from Cebu, so thats where I was getting the impression that there are more Muslims than there are.

Of course I can't go 'cause they will either skinned you alive or reap your head off if your a christian

sure, sure...couple of rumors about Juramentado and all the Christians get nervous!
I'm assuming that you are native Filipino? Some day I would love to go to your country and get exposure to your culture...training Kali/Arnis would be an added bonus, if they would have an American as a student.
Thanks, have a safe trip and happy holidays w/ your family,
Nick

[openbrain]

I agree with Maxx, I think the best,easiest and less chance for failure would be to just have a sump that can handle the overflow. Besides when the power goes out and all the excess water either drains into another container or the drain, what happens when the power goes back on and all that water isn't replaced back into the system. You then could have a possible pump overheat failure or worse a fire.

Don