Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium

[Disciple882542]

Thanks Allen...appreciate the help. Putting it over the crawl space will allow me to have a remote sump keeping everything quite and, most importantly, child proof. I'll keep you updated.

God bless,
Chris

[Disciple882542]

Would I need to jack the 4x6 up a small amount in order to get a tighter fit or could I just cut the 4x4 support so that it fits snug underneath the beam? I’ll be doing the support system prior to the tank installation if that makes a difference.

Thanks and God bless,
Chris

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Disciple882542

I just talked with a construction buddy of mine. He suggested a 4x6 beam supporting the floor joist. Supporting the beam would be a 4x4 that rests on a poured footing. Footing would be about 2’x2’ about 10” deep. He suggested running only 1 beam underneath the tank with 3 supports.

2x2 footings are great but i would consider the area you live in and find out what the ground freeze depth is in the winter. Here in Charleston SC footings need to be 12" deep. Thats not deep and we don't freeze. Where do you live? I could find out for you what the requirements are in your area. !0" just doesn't sound right to me.
No, I would not jack up the floor joists. Just cut it tight and hammer them in. You don't want to throw the levelness off the flooring above or cause a hump. You also need to think about settling with the new footings verses the settling of the house.

[Disciple882542]

Thanks for the heads up Frankie!

I live in Central Alabama. If I need to go a couple inches deeper that would be no big deal. Digging under the house will be kind of like Tim Robbins breaking out of Shawshank with his little rock hammer...slow and steady wins the race!

Thanks and God bless,
Chris

[BigAl07]

I just HAVE to post this so that someone else can help Me see the humor in this..

I just got my 90g tank in and am in the middle of planning it's install.

I live in a rental house and spoke with the landlord months ago about where I am placing this tank. His exact words were," That's the best possible place for the tank. That wall was originally an exterior bearing wall and it's extra thick and well supported under there so you could park a couple of cars on that wall."

So yesterday I just happened to be outside and decided to take a peek for myself. It's not JUST a crawl space but a very small and tight crawl space on a 40+ year old home. I finally get a peek hole made and to my shock the foundation doesn't even remotely resemble what the landlord had suggested. That's the farthest thing from a supported/exterior wall. In fact the place where the tank is going is smack in the middle of a fairly long span of floor joists. So over the next couple of weeks I am having a good friend (read very strong yet small person) go under, dig out for a footer, pour the footer and design a support system to carry the weight of the tank(s), stand and canopy down into the earth.

I just thought I should share this bit o humor with my RS friends. Can I get a Grrrrrrr?

Allen

[caitrina]

GRRRRRRRRRR! HISSSS! HISSS! Claws extended....hisssssssssss, should I bring out the big guns?

[Frankie]

Glad you checked before the tank got filled! You helped me start this thread, it would have looked bad if you had a compromise in the sub flooring!

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by caitrina

GRRRRRRRRRR! HISSSS! HISSS! Claws extended....hisssssssssss, should I bring out the big guns?

YES!! That's what it's going to take.

Originally Posted by FFrankie

Glad you checked before the tank got filled! You helped me start this thread, it would have looked bad if you had a compromise in the sub flooring!

My thoughts exactly FFrankie. I would hate to have had a failure and had to come back here and report it. But I got a good look at what's under there (more importantly what's NOT under there) and I have someone coming over to start digging out for the footer and I'll run the #'s in the morning at the office and we'll come up with a treated parralam beam to evenly distribute the weight evenly. It's going to be a while before this tank gets any water so I have plenty of time to get it secured underneath the house. I'll try to get some pics under there if I can both before and after. It's awfully tight and dark (I wont even start to fit but I have really skinny friends who OWE me favors) but if I can I will.

Allen

[AQTCJAK]

Originally Posted by BigAl07

I just HAVE to post this so that someone else can help Me see the humor in this..

I just got my 90g tank in and am in the middle of planning it's install.

I live in a rental house and spoke with the landlord months ago about where I am placing this tank. His exact words were," That's the best possible place for the tank. That wall was originally an exterior bearing wall and it's extra thick and well supported under there so you could park a couple of cars on that wall."

So yesterday I just happened to be outside and decided to take a peek for myself. It's not JUST a crawl space but a very small and tight crawl space on a 40+ year old home. I finally get a peek hole made and to my shock the foundation doesn't even remotely resemble what the landlord had suggested. That's the farthest thing from a supported/exterior wall. In fact the place where the tank is going is smack in the middle of a fairly long span of floor joists. So over the next couple of weeks I am having a good friend (read very strong yet small person) go under, dig out for a footer, pour the footer and design a support system to carry the weight of the tank(s), stand and canopy down into the earth.

I just thought I should share this bit o humor with my RS friends. Can I get a Grrrrrrr?

Allen

Al they still make footing like they did 40+ years ago basically a cement foot with a 4x4 center if you utilize those no digging except for the leveling is required then you can do 4x4 or larger length wise between them & support you tank no problem. I am going to have to do that exacrt thing when I put Vickis ne 180 in

[BigAl07]

Well it's DONE (floor support system).

We discovered that there is NO "human" access to our crawlspace at all under this house. So we had to pick a point that would allow us to break through a non-load bearing wall to create this access point. There is only one non-load bearing wall that would allow for this and it's approximately 20' from where the tank is and it's underneath our deck.

We started yesterday by removing a good portion of our decking boards to give access to the area. We then used a masonry bit in a hammer drill to make holes in the mortar joints and then used a hammer to break out the block to make a hole. This was all done either laying on our back, on our knees or hanging almost bat-like from the deck joists. It went more smoothly than I had planned so in short order a good friend was on his belly crawling under the house.

We made a "trolley" system to get tools and supplies to him under the house so that he doesn't have to crawl in and out any more than he HAS to. Ideally we wanted one in and one out each day. It works amazingly well (a big surprise). The trolley was a rope that he had under there with him with a snow sled (plastic tub sled) that we loaded with tools and stuff. He pulled the sled to him, emptied it and then we pulled it back out to reload.

he located and marked where the tank was located and and started digging out an area to pour concrete for a footer. We created a grid of rebar and he poured the concrete into the hole (we mixed in buckets and "Trolleyed" it to him). It couldn't be used yesterday because it needed to harden before placing block on it.

This morning he went back under the house and used various sizes of bock to "shore up" the potentially weak floor. The footer is about 5' x 3' x 2' with an array of concrete block stacked up to almost to the subfloor with a treated 2v on that up against the floor joists as a "shim".

It's all done now and ready for water. It's still several weeks out on adding water but fortunately now that house should support the tank when I do add water.

Unfortunately due to location and light issues I only have a pic of the wall before and after the access hole. I couldn't get any pictures to come out from under the floor.

Allen

[Triggerjay]

Good time for this topic to come back up. I was SURE my floors would have no issues handling the new 125g tank... well, until I got it filled.. The tank was real "bouncy". I took a 4X4, made a T under several floor joists in the tank area, and beat the bottom of the T in with a sledge hammer. No more bounce near the tank. I'm positive its not the correct way, But it seemed to work for me.

Jason

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by Triggerjay

Good time for this topic to come back up. I was SURE my floors would have no issues handling the new 125g tank... well, until I got it filled.. The tank was real "bouncy". I took a 4X4, made a T under several floor joists in the tank area, and beat the bottom of the T in with a sledge hammer. No more bounce near the tank. I'm positive its not the correct way, But it seemed to work for me.

Jason

Jason just make sure that the "T" isn't settling into the ground. If so, over a period of time it wont be adding any more support to the floor at all. What you're doing is bringing any weight from the tank/floor down into the ground in a "concentrated" area (the base of the 4x4). This becomes a very efficient "ground compactor" in that it's got weight on it 24/7. That's the reason I went to all the trouble to dig out, pour a much larger than needed concrete "pad" and then put the support from the floor down to that. I did that knowing that this is only a temporary thing because when we build our new house (2-3 years) the tank will come off of the floor and the supports wont be needed.

If this is a long term placement I would give it some considerable thought. Also keep in mind that the floor may be adequately "stable/secure" and just be overly bouncey (sp?). Floors that are engineered have a certain amount of bounce figured into them. Usually you can't feel it very much at all but a floor with ZERO bounce tends to be hard on your back if you stand/walk on it for long periods of time. with this in mind a floor is designed to have some "give" even though you may not feel it. The longer the span the more a "given" amount of bounce is noticed.

Allen

[Frankie]

Great reply AL!
Also the reason a floor has bounce to it is for contracting and expanding reasons through the seasons. If you inhibit this movement to much you can cause structural damage to the floor joists over a period of time.

[BigAl07]

That's right Frankie. Think of it as a BIG tree limb in a storm. If it can't "Give" with the wind and bend it will eventually break.

Allen

[Disciple882542]

I was finally able to move the aquarium last saturday. Everything is super stable and very solid. I place a 6' 4x4 beam supported by 3 legs under the tank. Also, the tank is level w/o any shims! That's a definate suprise since I live in a 73 year old house!

Thanks for the help and God bless,
Disciple

p.s. After I moved the tank and everybody/everything settled in, I found a drilled 120 gallon in the newspaper for $100! The key word being AFTER I moved everything...I didn't have the heart to even call about it.