Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium - Page 2

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 11:20 AM

From: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

Quote:

<BIG><BIG><BIG>Structural Engineering</BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Warning; Even if you have actually read this far without getting bored, it is about to get a whole lot worse. Here is what really happens when you put an aquarium on the floor:</BIG>
<BIG><BIG><BIG>Myth #9</BIG></BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG><BIG>: </BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>"Kevin is a structural engineer so he knows exactly to the pound how strong his floor framing is."</BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG> </BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG><BIG><BIG>Well we can get close, and we can be safe, but we really don't know </BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>exactly</BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG> what load will cause the floor to collapse. Man did not manufacture wood from basic elements under controlled conditions as we do steel. Mother nature made wood according to her whim. Oak is stronger than southern pine but not all southern pine trees are identical. Wood has several "grades" based upon its' physical condition, but it is usually visually graded. That means a man at the mill looks at the linearity, grain, knots, splits etc and then says: "I think that I'll call this a no 2 grade" Then we structural engineers look in a book which tells us only approximately how strong it is.</BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG>more definitions</BIG>

<BIG>bridging or blocking</BIG><BIG><BIG><BIG>:<BIG></BIG></BIG> This is the material that is between your floor joists. It might be a solid 2 x 10 blocking. Or it might be X-braced wood slats or X-braced metal straps. Bridging and blocking does two things. It helps to distribute concentrated floor loads to more joists than the ones directly below the load. (If they deflect together, then they share the load.) And it also keeps the floor joists in a verticle position so that they don't tip over on their side. (Lateral-torsional buckling)</BIG></BIG>
<BIG><BIG><BIG>strength and stiffness</BIG></BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG><BIG>: These two items are completely different properties of a material, that are indeed related to each other. This single point is definitely the source of a lot of confusion. Strength is obviously how strong something is. Stiffness is how much it bends, deflects, flexes etc.</BIG></BIG></BIG>
<BIG>shear:</BIG><BIG> If you were to hold a pencil at the edge of a table and then strike it just past the edge of the table you might shear it off. In your floor joists, the shear stresses in the wood joists are the greatest right at the face of the supporting bearing wall. If you have a shear failure in your floor joists it will be a horizontal split, at mid-depth of the joists, parallel to the grain in the wood, near the supporting wall or beam.</BIG>
<BIG>bending:</BIG><BIG> When you hold that pencil in both hands and rotate each hand in oposite directions you will bend the pencil. The pencil should break near the middle. The bending stresses put tension into one side of the pencil and that is where you can see the wooden pencil start to split apart. If you have a bending failure in your floor joists then the wood will pull apart at the bottom of the joist near the mid-span of the joist.</BIG>

<BIG></BIG>
<BIG>First the weight of your aquarium bears on the subfloor. For the most part this is of little concern unless it permanently puts a dent into your beautiful hardwood floors. It takes an incredible amount of pressure (in psi) for the leg of an aquarium stand to poke a hole through your floor. This type of failure is called punching shear and most plywood or tongue and groove plank subfloors are very strong in punching shear. It could happen, it is just not very likely to happen at all. The subfloor carries the aquarium leg load to the floor joists. Remember that your primary floor structure is the wood joists and that is what was designed to support 40 psf, not the subfloor. The subfloor has to be able to resist the common concentrated loads from refrigerators, water beds, and chairs, etc. and it can do so easily enough since it only has to span the 16 inches between the floor joists. So the subfloor can resist a very large bearing pressure without puncturing the plywood and that is why it is not the bearing </BIG><BIG>pressure</BIG><BIG> that is the greatest concern to us.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG><BIG><BIG>Myth #10a (male version):</BIG></BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG><BIG> </BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>"I weigh 250 pounds and can stand on one foot anywhere on the floor without crashing through the floor. My foot is about 36 square inches (0.25 sq ft) so that is 1000 psf. Therefore Kevin's 40 psf makes no sense."</BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Like I said above, the subfloor is very strong in punching shear. And an isolated bearing pressure of 1000 psf on the subfloor has nothing at all to do with a uniform floor design load of 40 psf on the floor joists. The floor joists must be able to support the 250 lb man not the 1000 psf foot pressure. The subfloor easily supports the 1000 psf in punching shear and carries the 250 lb weight to the floor joists.</BIG>

<BIG><BIG>Myth #10b (female version):</BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG> </BIG><BIG>"I am a 100 pound woman who loves her stilleto heels. My heel is only 1/2 inch diameter so that's a pressure of over 36,000 psf!"</BIG></BIG>

<BIG><BIG>Now instead of a that heavyset male on one foot, we have a woman walking accross the floor in high heels. Same answer: It is the weight of the person that matters and not the pressure that the heel places on the floor that matters</BIG><BIG>.</BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Structural framing might be designed for this theoretical uniform 40 psf but it probably doesn't reflect the real world loading conditions in any room of your house. The most likely way for a residential wood floor to fail would be because of excessive shear stresses or excessive bending stresses in the floor joists. So let's say I have a 125 gallon tank and the All-Glass web site says that it weighs 1400 lbs and is 6 ft long. The aquarium is oriented perpendicular to the joists and my floor framing is wood joists spanning 12 ft. So this 6 ft by 12 ft portion of the floor was designed to safely support a total live load of at least 6 ft x 12 ft x 40 psf = 2880 pounds total and may actually be much stronger than that, as discussed above. (And keep in mind that this 2880 pounds includes the weight of any people, furniture, bookshelves etc that are located in that 12 ft x 6 ft area) Does this have much value to you? Yes, but only a little bit. The bending stresses and the shear stresses are distributed much differently due to a large concentrated load like an aquarium than they are when distributed uniformly. Aquariums located close to the wall generate high shear stresses and very low bending stresses. Aquariums located in the middle of the span generate extremely high bending stresses and much lower shear stresses at each supporting wall. But you know that it was easier to break that pencil by bending it, so up against the wall is still the preferred aquarium location.</BIG>
<BIG> To see how to calculate the weight of your aquarium set-up click here=> </BIG><BIG>Weight Calculations</BIG>
<BIG>Myth #11<BIG>: </BIG>"I added 210 pounds of rock to my aquarium so now my aquarium setup weighs 210 pounds more."</BIG>

<BIG>In the above example, when you added the 210 lbs of rock it took up space that was previously occupied by approximately 1.5 cubic feet of water. So you've really only added 116 lbs (the "bouyant rock weight") to the total weight.</BIG>

<BIG>Another often unrecognized structural concept is that the duration of the load can be a factor in whether a wood structure collapses or not. Anyone that has ever used a chain saw to cut part way through a tree knows that. You can push on the tree and the tree does not break and fall down immediately unless you use a lot of force. Or you can use less force and sustain it for a longer period of time to make it fall down. A floor failure that I investigated occurred at 3:00 am on Monday morning due to an excessive load that was placed on a wood framed floor on the previous Friday afternoon. So if an entire professional football team crowds around to admire your large beautiful aquarium, it might not be any cause for concern unless they stand there all weekend or even for a few years.</BIG>

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 11:23 AM

From: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

Quote:

<BIG><BIG><BIG>Myth #11</BIG></BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG><BIG>: </BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>"My two brothers and I weigh 800 lbs together and we jumped off the sofa onto my floor and it didn't break, so I know that the floor can safely hold more than a 800 lb aquarium."</BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Yes, the dropped weight exerted a force greater than 800 pounds, but it was a short term impact load. If your 800 lb aquarium stays in the same spot for 10 years it might just cause the collapse that the jumping brothers didn't.</BIG>

<BIG>Then there is the misunderstood subject of stiffness and strength. The amount of flexing, or bowing or bending that occurs is a function of the elasticity of the material and the shape of the material in the direction of the load. Everyone knows that their fiberglas (or graphite?) fishing rod bends alot without breaking. But a wooden stick with the same diameter might bend a lot less and still break under less load. The wood stick is stiffer but weaker. So why does everyone in a second floor apartment constructed with a concrete floor assume that their floor is stronger than the wood floor at their friends house? They assume that their floor is stronger because it is less "bouncy." But this conclusion is not necessarily true since they are comparing two different materials with a much different shape spanning a different distance.</BIG>
<BIG></BIG>
<BIG><BIG><BIG>Myth #13</BIG></BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG><BIG>: </BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>"I know that my floor is strong enough to hold my aquarium because I put it up against the wall and there is no perceptible deflection. And, when I walk across the room it doesn't shake."</BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Could be wrong. If the wood joists below the floor fail in shear then there is little or no perceptible deflection associated with this type of overstress. However, you should be aware that excessive floor deflection is indeed a sign that the floor might be overstressed in bending.</BIG>

<BIG>When structural engineers design the floor of a public building with long spans, they have to be aware that floor vibration due to foot traffic could be a problem. It is not a structural problem at all, just a perception problem. People are just not comfortable feeling the floor shake beneath their feet. But this vibration or bounce is really harmless and the floor is probably more than strong enough to support the design load. The same can be said for a high-rise office building that sways too much in the wind. It is not unsafe, it is just uncomfortable.</BIG>
<BIG><BIG>Myth #14</BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>: </BIG></BIG><BIG><BIG>"My floor was doing fine until I put that 75 gallon aquarium in the room. Now the aquarium is causing the floor to bounce."</BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Actually, your aquarium is doing the exact opposite. The stationary weight of your aquarium is acting to dampen some of the floor vibrations due to foot traffic. It is just that now you see the ripples in the water and so now you perceive that the floor is vibrating more.</BIG>

<BIG>Another characteristic of wood is that sustained loads can cause permanent deflections and these deflections may increase over time. This "permanent warping" of the wood is called creep. So, if the floor deflects 1/2 inch when you set up your aquarium and you leave the aquarium in the same spot for many, many years that deflection might increase to 3/4". Then when you remove the aquarium you may find that some of that deflection has become permanent. That is why in some older homes the floors are no longer perfectly level.</BIG>
<BIG>Myth #15</BIG><BIG><BIG>: </BIG></BIG><BIG>"My floor is deflecting so I better put shims under it to make it level."</BIG>

<BIG>Okay, this one might or might not have some truth to it. If your floor is flat but sloping, then it just doesn't matter structurally if the water level is higher at one end of the aquarium than it is at the other end. Now if one of the four corners of your aquarium stand is lower or higher than the other three corners then it could be a big problem. That could put a torsional (twisting) load into the glass tank which could break the glass or the seal at an edge/corner of the glass.</BIG>

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 11:24 AM

From: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

Quote:

<BIG>DO NEWER HOMES HAVE STRONGER FLOORS?</BIG>

<BIG>Many years ago, hardwood trees such as oak or ash were fairly common. Lumber companies today generally rely on soft wood for structural lumber. That is because the softer wood trees such as southern pine are much faster growing and the forest can be replenished more quickly and inexpensively. Some homes built near the turn of the century were still being constructed with wood that is so hard it is difficult to drive a nail into them. So an older home will very often be considerably stronger than a brand new home.</BIG><BIG> <BIG> Every year, research adds to our structural knowledge base. As a structural engineer, it is our job to not only make a building safe but also to make it as cost effective as possible. So if the research tells us that we can trim some of the cost of the structural framing out of a building and still maintain the minimum safety factor, then that is what we will do.</BIG></BIG>
<BIG>Myth #16</BIG><BIG><BIG>: </BIG></BIG><BIG>"My home is brand new so it is much stronger than those old homes with warped floors."</BIG>

<BIG>As discussed above, older homes are often stronger than new ones. Today a 2 x 10 is really only 1.5" x 9.25" in size. Years ago that 2 x 10 was really 2" x 10". Even if the new home was constructed with joists that are actually 2" x 10", chances are very good that the wood used to build the older home was a harder stronger wood. Many older homes were built with the moto "when in doubt, make it stout". Today's homes are less likely to be custom built and more likely to be built by a developer with an eye to minimize the cost of the structural framing system. Let's face it, your wife never says "Let's buy this house because the floors are stronger" does she?</BIG>

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 11:25 AM

From: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

Quote:

<BIG><BIG><BIG>Conclusion</BIG></BIG></BIG>

<BIG>Aquariums up to 55 gallons can be placed almost anywhere without much worry at all. Many tanks larger than 55 gallons and no more than 125 gallons will be okay, if they are placed in a good structural location and your floor framing is free from significant defects. For example, a 125 gallon tank, on a wooden stand, placed perpendicular to the joists up against a bearing wall, will often be okay without any additional structural support. If your tank is over 125 gallons, then it is likely that you should consider adding supports under your wood framed floor. Please realize that these are generalities that may or may not apply to your particular situation.</BIG>
<BIG>If you do decide to increase the strength of your floor, just keep in mind that this is best done before the aquarium is placed on the floor and the floor has deflected under the load. For example: Let's say that you fill that 180 gallon tank with water and then later get concerned. So you go into the basement and nail another 2 x 10 right alongside the existing 2 x 10 joist. (see:</BIG> <BIG>http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/framecarp/supplement/floor/joist1/sister.htm</BIG><BIG> )</BIG> <BIG> Unfortunately this doesn't accomplish much since the load was already in the existing 2 x 10 and you haven't removed any stess out of the existing 2 x 10 by adding another joist. If you had added the new 2 x 10 first, and then put the aquarium on the floor, then the joists would have deflected together and shared more of the load. Same idea with a post. You should either add the post first (before you fill the aquarium with water) and shim it very tight to the underside of the joists, or you should jack upward so that the post carries more load. (see:</BIG> <BIG>http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/framecarp/supplement/floor/joist1/raising.htm</BIG><BIG> )</BIG>
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>
<BIG>And now for the most commonly perpetuated myth of all.</BIG><BIG> Someone in the forum asks if they think it is possible to place a 120 gallon tank on the second floor of their apartment. The answers inevitably go something like this: "</BIG><BIG>I see no reason you can't. I've had a 125 gallon aquarium in my bedroom for years.</BIG><BIG>"</BIG>

<BIG>Myth #17</BIG><BIG>:</BIG> <BIG>"If my floor didn't collapse with a ??? gallon aquarium, then your floor should be okay too"</BIG>
<BIG>Since the person posting the question provides no information at all about the composition of the floor construction, the span of the floor framing or the relative position of the tank, there is just no way for anyone to provide a logical answer. Yet answers flow from people perfectly willing to compare apples to oranges to watermellons to come up with a recomendation. (And in this example the comparison is even a worse because the 125 gallon tank is 6 ft long and the 120 gallon tank is only 4 ft long.)</BIG>

<BIG>If you know why the answer given in myth #17 is so illogical, then you understand why I decided to sit down and write this all out. I wanted everyone to have a very basic understanding of the many factors that go into the evaluation of the structural capacity of a floor framing system. I wanted to give people some guidance on where to best postion their tank and when it is best to seek some outside guidance. And most of all, I wanted people to stop believing in and perpetuating the myths that spread through the internet like wildfire. Unfortunately, if you hear the same advise repeated over and over, you can start to believe that it is a commonly recognized fact. Hopefully, now we can get rid of the discussions about the; woman in high heels, the man in the bathtub, the people jumping off the sofa and the cure-all plywood under the tank.</BIG>

<BIG>Kevin Bauman</BIG>
<BIG>kbauman2 at columbus.rr.com</BIG>
<BIG>(replace at with @)</BIG>

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 11:27 AM

I apologize for spamming this thread with the quotes above but I wanted to 'capture' the information here on our server. You never know if links will break in the future and I did not want the wealth of information to be inaccessible!!

*Whew*... I'm going to rest my fingers now

BigAl07 · 05-23-2007, 12:47 PM

Now what does that tell us?

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 12:53 PM

It tells me to call a Engineer and keep praying! LOL!

BigAl07 · 05-23-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodstock

It tells me to call a Engineer and keep praying! LOL!

I know some people who think that engineers and architects are a TOTAL waste of money. And they ARE until you need one and then they are Priceless! I see them save home owners the price of their fees MANY times over every week!!

Allen

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 03:14 PM

The next house I get will have downstairs area with a concrete floor for my fish room

BigAl07 · 05-23-2007, 03:19 PM

Our new house design will have a dedicated fish/equipment room... it will be on the main level but will have a masonry floor with built in drains and everything for my fishes!! I can only imagine how that's going to set me back

Allen

Woodstock · 05-23-2007, 03:31 PM

Ohhh yeah. Floor drains!! That'll be the day!!

Frankie · 05-23-2007, 05:18 PM

WOW! You guys really attacked this thread while i was out working!
I see AL gave some great info and Doni some awesome spam.

I will need some time to look it all over so I get it all in. I have done some home work myself with the APA (American Plywood Association) and will be bringing in there info also. I will have a lot to say soon and thank all of you for the awesome attention you have given this important topic.

BigAl07 · 05-23-2007, 05:26 PM

I just sort of peeked on this thread all day... while at work

Have a good one and I look forward to hearing back more!!

Allen

Frankie · 05-23-2007, 09:06 PM

LOL i got scared my thread got kicked. Someone moved it to DIY from off topic (Doni im sure). Well its late and i have a ton of reading to do. Thanks everyone. I see Al is going to be an awesome contributor to this thread considering what he dose for a living.
I am pressed for time tonight and really want to read it all before i start answering questions. I want to answer Doni's first since she asked first. I saw that Stigore solved his troubles by having removable shelve to check on the wood framing over time. Good idea Stilgore. I am sure it will rot out over time from wicking up water from the concrete like Al said, but i have some ways you can fix that from happening also with chemicals. Or at least slow it down a ton. I will get into that in time here also. please be patient and this can be an awesome thread. I am sorry i didn't start it on the weekend when i have more time. It is what it is. Off to read!

05-23-2007, 11:27 AM	#20 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,553 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium I apologize for spamming this thread with the quotes above but I wanted to 'capture' the information here on our server. You never know if links will break in the future and I did not want the wealth of information to be inaccessible!! Whew... I'm going to rest my fingers now __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MHs, dual Geiseman Actinic T5s,Neptune AC III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

05-23-2007, 12:47 PM	#21 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,340 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium Now what does that tell us? __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

05-23-2007, 12:53 PM	#22 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,553 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium It tells me to call a Engineer and keep praying! LOL! __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MHs, dual Geiseman Actinic T5s,Neptune AC III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

05-23-2007, 03:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,553 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium The next house I get will have downstairs area with a concrete floor for my fish room __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MHs, dual Geiseman Actinic T5s,Neptune AC III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

05-23-2007, 03:19 PM	#25 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,340 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium Our new house design will have a dedicated fish/equipment room... it will be on the main level but will have a masonry floor with built in drains and everything for my fishes!! I can only imagine how that's going to set me back Allen __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

05-23-2007, 03:31 PM	#26 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,553 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium Ohhh yeah. Floor drains!! That'll be the day!! __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MHs, dual Geiseman Actinic T5s,Neptune AC III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

05-23-2007, 05:18 PM	#27 (permalink)
Frankie Angel Girl's Daddy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The End Of The World Posts: 6,816 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium WOW! You guys really attacked this thread while i was out working! I see AL gave some great info and Doni some awesome spam. I will need some time to look it all over so I get it all in. I have done some home work myself with the APA (American Plywood Association) and will be bringing in there info also. I will have a lot to say soon and thank all of you for the awesome attention you have given this important topic. __________________ Visit my aquarium -->Frankie's 120 gal Experiment Bruce: Today's meeting is Step 5: Bring a fish friend. Everyone brought a fish friend? DIY=DO IT YOURSELF! If we ignore the environment maybe it will go away....

05-23-2007, 05:26 PM	#28 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 10,340 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium I just sort of peeked on this thread all day... while at work Have a good one and I look forward to hearing back more!! Allen __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

05-23-2007, 09:06 PM	#29 (permalink)
Frankie Angel Girl's Daddy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The End Of The World Posts: 6,816 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Sub floors & preparing for your new aquarium LOL i got scared my thread got kicked. Someone moved it to DIY from off topic (Doni im sure). Well its late and i have a ton of reading to do. Thanks everyone. I see Al is going to be an awesome contributor to this thread considering what he dose for a living. I am pressed for time tonight and really want to read it all before i start answering questions. I want to answer Doni's first since she asked first. I saw that Stigore solved his troubles by having removable shelve to check on the wood framing over time. Good idea Stilgore. I am sure it will rot out over time from wicking up water from the concrete like Al said, but i have some ways you can fix that from happening also with chemicals. Or at least slow it down a ton. I will get into that in time here also. please be patient and this can be an awesome thread. I am sorry i didn't start it on the weekend when i have more time. It is what it is. Off to read! __________________ Visit my aquarium -->Frankie's 120 gal Experiment Bruce: Today's meeting is Step 5: Bring a fish friend. Everyone brought a fish friend? DIY=DO IT YOURSELF! If we ignore the environment maybe it will go away....

05-23-2007, 09:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
mps9506 They misunderestimated me Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,013 View Gallery