Questions about DIY LR.

DewDropPony · 11-28-2006, 02:35 PM

I'm actually thinking about making DIY LR. The problem is I don't have excess to anyone else here that already has an established reef so I'm going to have to seed the DIY LR by buying real LR. How much real LR should I buy to seed the DIY LR? I have a 55gal tank. I plan on making maybe 45 to 55 pound worth of DIY LR. Also, how long with the real LR need to take to spread into the fake LR? The fish should only be added after all the DIY LR is fully "live", right? And how will I know when it's ready?

Also, how long does it take to cure DIY LR? I've everything from 2 days to 6 months.

JOSEPHLB · 11-28-2006, 02:54 PM

From what I've read, Portland cement is around 70-75% cured after about 28 days. It really depends on the size of your rocks. Curing of cement causes all those chemical reactions once cement has been mixed with water. Large slabs and sections of cement can still be curing after years and years. The general consensus among a majority of DIY rock makers is a minimum of 4-6 weeks is needed to cure DIY rock for a safe addition in your aquarium. The 4-6 week curing period would cover the 28 days that portland cement is tecnically almost fully cured. With your aquarium sized rock pieces, this time should be sufficient enough. The additional one to two weeks is to insure minimal leeching of contaminents from the cement. Initially the pH of freshly mixed cement is around 11.0+. When you first start "kuring" your DIY rock, you'll notice a white colored film on top of your water that you are kuring your rock in. At first, it will be alot, and you'll need to perform water changes in your kuring tote. I wouldn't even bother testing until week 3 or so, to get an idea of where your pH is.

Woodstock · 11-28-2006, 10:10 PM

Great info Joseph! Thanks

JOSEPHLB · 11-29-2006, 08:53 AM

Thanks!

Additional Links:
Ultimate DIY Rock - Part 1

Ultimate DIY Rock - Part 2

JOSEPHLB · 11-30-2006, 08:12 PM

My DIY rocks; Will be four weeks curing next week.
One part Portland cement Type I/II
Two to two & half parts water softener (rock salt)
Water - enough to create an "oatmeal" consistency

I laid down a bunch of rock salt to create a 'not smooth surface' to mold my rocks on/in. A few small batchs of my rock also consisted of one part of CaribSea Sea Floor. (trying to get a different texture and look.. some of them came out ok).

These photos were from last week. I'll try to get some update photos this weekend of some individual pieces of the rock and also some closeups to show the porousity (<-- spelling.. I know

) of the rock.

boozeman · 11-30-2006, 08:41 PM

those look real good

a word of caution...after curing...cure them again in saltwater.
forgot who it was here on RS, ran into some leaching problems when he placed some diy rocks into his tank

ReefGuy69 · 11-30-2006, 09:35 PM

Those do look real good. I usually buy base rock that looks similair, but now you have me thinking of trying a batch on my own. In no time once in an established reef you wont even be able to tell the real from the DIY. Good Job.

Charlie97L · 12-06-2006, 11:26 AM

you can also use pasta to make them porous. shove pieces of spaghetti and others in the rocks when it is soft... the pasta will dissolve during curing, leaving you with nice holes everywhere.

ds69 · 01-01-2007, 04:39 PM

When I made mine I used a giant tub of sand and carved out the desired shape and then filled it with the cement mixture. I would put some cement in and then make areas with just sand or crushed coral and so when you put more cement over them and it dries you are left with nice caves and holes. that way you get some nice nooks and crannies to stuff some zoanthids and such to cover the rocks. You want to make it as porous as possible so the bacteria and such will colonize in it. Its also been said that adding pvc pipe shavings into the mixture will help make the coralline grow faster. It's suppose to be attracted to the pvc shavings. Though I havent noticed any difference from the rocks with pvc and the ones without.

Kevin

PhilOlsen · 01-01-2007, 10:31 PM

No matter how long dead, home made, or base rock sits next to live rock in our aquarium, the lifeforms that live inside of live rock will not move over to the dead or base rock. Those rocks will never become live rocks! Why? Because the organisms inside the true live rock don't reproduce in our aquariums These worms and other special lifeforms responsible for the rock performing denitrification, will not spread. They cannot move to other rock and they cannot reproduce/multiply in the aquarium. In fact, this is one reason why some aquarists claim that live rock should be replaced every 5 to 10 years. The lifeforms inside the rock will die off of their own accord, and the help the live rock gave at removing nitrates will diminish as the rock ages. Some claim that once coralline algae covers over the crevices and these worm holes, that the rock will loose its ability to handle nitrates, too. Makes sense. So maybe don't be in such a rush to cultivate a lot of coralline if you need the denitrification!

JFK_Jr · 01-02-2007, 01:11 PM

Dentoid · 01-02-2007, 02:31 PM

Phil is just full of good advice.

corallimorph · 01-02-2007, 03:03 PM

No he is not...why will organisms not spread from one rock to another Phil?,where do you get your information from?
I just can't get over the amount of UN-backed-up B.S. in his post about "what is liverock"!

where are your references in regards to flora and fona densities and/or community profiles within and on the surface of a single piece of live rock.
Your broad generalizations suggest that all live rock has the same porosity and lithographic compisitions?.......?????????????????????????????? ?????????????

BoomerD · 01-02-2007, 03:09 PM

I'll agree to a point with his comments in this thread...IMO, Base rock/DIY live rock will NEVER truly become "Live Rock", as we get from the ocean, BUT, it does help fill the tank with rock that you can build on ith "real live rock"...Yes, some organisms will indeed move on to the "dead rock", but live rock is so much more than that. It's about the bacteria that lives internally in the pores of the rock, it's about the wide variety of lifeforms that may exist within the pores of the rock, and pop out to add diversity to our tanks,(often quite unexpectedly), it's about the corals, algaes, inverts whose spores/larval stages/eggs may live within the cracks/crevices of the rock as it's harvested from the ocean...
Can you use DIY rock successfully in a reef tank? Yep, but it'll NEVER be "live rock"...

PhilOlsen · 01-02-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomerD

Can you use DIY rock successfully in a reef tank? Yep, but it'll NEVER be "live rock"...

My point exactly

11-28-2006, 02:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
DewDropPony Bryozoan Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 57 View Gallery Karma Komment	Questions about DIY LR. I'm actually thinking about making DIY LR. The problem is I don't have excess to anyone else here that already has an established reef so I'm going to have to seed the DIY LR by buying real LR. How much real LR should I buy to seed the DIY LR? I have a 55gal tank. I plan on making maybe 45 to 55 pound worth of DIY LR. Also, how long with the real LR need to take to spread into the fake LR? The fish should only be added after all the DIY LR is fully "live", right? And how will I know when it's ready? Also, how long does it take to cure DIY LR? I've everything from 2 days to 6 months.

11-28-2006, 02:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
JOSEPHLB Limpet Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Carroll County, MD Posts: 129 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. From what I've read, Portland cement is around 70-75% cured after about 28 days. It really depends on the size of your rocks. Curing of cement causes all those chemical reactions once cement has been mixed with water. Large slabs and sections of cement can still be curing after years and years. The general consensus among a majority of DIY rock makers is a minimum of 4-6 weeks is needed to cure DIY rock for a safe addition in your aquarium. The 4-6 week curing period would cover the 28 days that portland cement is tecnically almost fully cured. With your aquarium sized rock pieces, this time should be sufficient enough. The additional one to two weeks is to insure minimal leeching of contaminents from the cement. Initially the pH of freshly mixed cement is around 11.0+. When you first start "kuring" your DIY rock, you'll notice a white colored film on top of your water that you are kuring your rock in. At first, it will be alot, and you'll need to perform water changes in your kuring tote. I wouldn't even bother testing until week 3 or so, to get an idea of where your pH is.

11-28-2006, 10:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,847 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Questions about DIY LR. Great info Joseph! Thanks __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MHs, dual Geiseman Actinic T5s,Neptune AC III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

11-29-2006, 08:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
JOSEPHLB Limpet Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Carroll County, MD Posts: 129 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. Thanks! Additional Links: Ultimate DIY Rock - Part 1 Ultimate DIY Rock - Part 2

11-30-2006, 08:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
JOSEPHLB Limpet Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Carroll County, MD Posts: 129 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. My DIY rocks; Will be four weeks curing next week. One part Portland cement Type I/II Two to two & half parts water softener (rock salt) Water - enough to create an "oatmeal" consistency I laid down a bunch of rock salt to create a 'not smooth surface' to mold my rocks on/in. A few small batchs of my rock also consisted of one part of CaribSea Sea Floor. (trying to get a different texture and look.. some of them came out ok). These photos were from last week. I'll try to get some update photos this weekend of some individual pieces of the rock and also some closeups to show the porousity (<-- spelling.. I know ) of the rock.

11-30-2006, 08:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
boozeman The CodFather ~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: new york Posts: 8,800 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Questions about DIY LR. those look real good a word of caution...after curing...cure them again in saltwater. forgot who it was here on RS, ran into some leaching problems when he placed some diy rocks into his tank __________________ ...and when I'm old and wise little things mean little to me like autumn winds they'll blow right through me and someday, in the mist of time when they ask you if you knew me remember that you were a friend of mine

11-30-2006, 09:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
ReefGuy69 Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 746 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Questions about DIY LR. Those do look real good. I usually buy base rock that looks similair, but now you have me thinking of trying a batch on my own. In no time once in an established reef you wont even be able to tell the real from the DIY. Good Job.

12-06-2006, 11:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
Charlie97L Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Bethesda, MD Posts: 1,288 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. you can also use pasta to make them porous. shove pieces of spaghetti and others in the rocks when it is soft... the pasta will dissolve during curing, leaving you with nice holes everywhere. __________________ 40 Breeder, 20H Frag Aquactinics T5s, CPR Fuge, Deltec AP600, AC Jr, WavySea

01-01-2007, 04:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
ds69 Fire Coral Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Modesto, Ca Posts: 71 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. When I made mine I used a giant tub of sand and carved out the desired shape and then filled it with the cement mixture. I would put some cement in and then make areas with just sand or crushed coral and so when you put more cement over them and it dries you are left with nice caves and holes. that way you get some nice nooks and crannies to stuff some zoanthids and such to cover the rocks. You want to make it as porous as possible so the bacteria and such will colonize in it. Its also been said that adding pvc pipe shavings into the mixture will help make the coralline grow faster. It's suppose to be attracted to the pvc shavings. Though I havent noticed any difference from the rocks with pvc and the ones without. Kevin

01-01-2007, 10:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
PhilOlsen Has been struck by the ban stick Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Glendale Hts. Illinois (Chicago transplant to humor my wife) Posts: 646 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. No matter how long dead, home made, or base rock sits next to live rock in our aquarium, the lifeforms that live inside of live rock will not move over to the dead or base rock. Those rocks will never become live rocks! Why? Because the organisms inside the true live rock don't reproduce in our aquariums These worms and other special lifeforms responsible for the rock performing denitrification, will not spread. They cannot move to other rock and they cannot reproduce/multiply in the aquarium. In fact, this is one reason why some aquarists claim that live rock should be replaced every 5 to 10 years. The lifeforms inside the rock will die off of their own accord, and the help the live rock gave at removing nitrates will diminish as the rock ages. Some claim that once coralline algae covers over the crevices and these worm holes, that the rock will loose its ability to handle nitrates, too. Makes sense. So maybe don't be in such a rush to cultivate a lot of coralline if you need the denitrification!

01-02-2007, 01:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
JFK_Jr Golden Moray Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hallandale Beach FL Posts: 2,108 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Questions about DIY LR. __________________ *JFK_Jr's 150 Gallon Starphire*

01-02-2007, 02:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. Phil is just full of good advice.

01-02-2007, 03:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
corallimorph Has been struck by the ban stick Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 226 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. No he is not...why will organisms not spread from one rock to another Phil?,where do you get your information from? I just can't get over the amount of UN-backed-up B.S. in his post about "what is liverock"! where are your references in regards to flora and fona densities and/or community profiles within and on the surface of a single piece of live rock. Your broad generalizations suggest that all live rock has the same porosity and lithographic compisitions?.......?????????????????????????????? ?????????????

01-02-2007, 03:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,631 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Questions about DIY LR. I'll agree to a point with his comments in this thread...IMO, Base rock/DIY live rock will NEVER truly become "Live Rock", as we get from the ocean, BUT, it does help fill the tank with rock that you can build on ith "real live rock"...Yes, some organisms will indeed move on to the "dead rock", but live rock is so much more than that. It's about the bacteria that lives internally in the pores of the rock, it's about the wide variety of lifeforms that may exist within the pores of the rock, and pop out to add diversity to our tanks,(often quite unexpectedly), it's about the corals, algaes, inverts whose spores/larval stages/eggs may live within the cracks/crevices of the rock as it's harvested from the ocean... Can you use DIY rock successfully in a reef tank? Yep, but it'll NEVER be "live rock"... __________________ Intelligence is not knowing all the answers, but knowing where and how to find them! www.google.com

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)