Reef Sanctuary
Become a Sponsor   Our Sponsors  

Welcome to the Reef Sanctuary forums.

We're a beginner-friendly Reef Aquarium community featuring saltwater fish tank discussion, reef aquarium supply reviews, free photo gallery and more!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to many of our features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! Want to check the place out first? Take a look at our Beginner's Guide for a quick tour of all the features we have to offer the marine aquarium hobbyist. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact support.

Go Back   Reef Sanctuary > Aquarium Club Forums > Bluespot Club
User Name
Password
Home Forums Photo Gallery Chat Product Reviews Live Coral Frags Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Bluespot Club The one, the only... Bluespot Club!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-16-2008, 11:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
Dentoid
Over Achiever
 
Dentoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 10,239
BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

I have taken an interest in looking for possible causes of death in the BSJF. I was fortunate to be given a deceased BS by RS member 30X30 for microscopic examination. Here are my findings.

This BS, like many before it, suddenly stopped eating, developed changes in skin coloration (white spots) and perished soon thereafter.

DISSCUSION
The BSJF is native to the Gulf of California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Sea of Cortez). They are found in water 15'-150' deep and live in large colonies with each individual fish being about 4'-5' apart. They live on sandy, rubble flats near reef slopes where they build their burrows 3'-4' deep into the sea floor. They fortify the burrow by lining it with rock rubble, shells etc to keep the walls from caving in and embellish their entrance. The water temperature in the Sea of Cortez ranges from <60 degrees in the south where the Pacific Ocean meets the Gulf and >80 in the north.

The BSJF has a poor reputation for survival in captivity and much anecdotal evidence has been presented in the on-line forums. The typical presentation is the fish seems healthy for a short time, 3-6 weeks, then stops eating, develops white spots and dies rather quickly. Due to the changes in skin coloration the plight of this fish has been termed "BSJF Disease" by on-line forum goers. It's no wonder that this term has developed since the only outwardly unusual change is the development of these "white patches" or "white spots". It's more of an observational term than one that is backed by any kind of science. There are reports of long term successes with this species. However, there may be an underlying, internal disorder that is not seen as these fish are rarely, if ever dissected after death.

Many theories have been presented, but none confirmed or denied. Everything from inadequate temperature, intestinal parasites, shipping and handling stress, trauma from jumping, inadequate food source, depth of aquarium and gravel bed, you name it.

THEORY
Since this fish is a burrowing fish there is a real opportunity for it to ingest parasites, eggs of parasites, worms etc in its everyday activity of digging in the mud. In nature these internal parasites may be kept in check by the fishes natural defense system (immunity), but when they are put under stress from collection, shipping and holding, it is possible that these parasites overwhelm the fish's natural defenses and eventually leads to their demise.

TECHNIQUE
The fish was frozen for about 2 weeks, thawed and transfered to 10% buffered formalin solution for 2 weeks before dissection. The fish was dissected under a stereomicroscope. The pectoral fin was removed and four incisions were made to remove the body wall. One along the lateral line, posteriorly to the vent, anteriorly to the breast and one along the belly. The ceacum and swim bladder were removed and any connective tissue that obscured the organs.



This is a picture of the stomach contents under stereomicroscope. It's full of what I believe to be mucus and small unidentified bits.



Close-up of unidentified bits.



Images of the unidentified bits removed. These may well be pieces of food.




Stomach lining under stereomicroscope. Highly convoluted and muscular for churning food..



Intestinal lining under stereomicroscope. Highly convoluted for increase in surface area for nutrient absorption. The intestine was empty in this specimen, possibly due to the blockage.



This is the intestine to the vent.



The unidentified bits were then prepared for light microscopy. I didn't find much in the way of parasites, possibly a worm, I can not confirm this, and a lot of amorphous mucus.







What I did find was pieces of sand, many of them. In fact almost all of the unidentified bits were sand covered in layers of mucus skins, kind of like an onion.


There are 2 flexures between the stomach and intestine. One from most posterior portion of the stomach turning anterior, then another turning towards the posterior into the straight intestine. It is here that I found one of these "unidentified bits" I believe there was blockage where there is a stricture or narrowing of the intestine. The intestinal lumen was empty from this point to the vent.



CONCLUSION
With just one dissection and microscopic exam, the presence of parasites could not be confirm or deny. There were indurated (hard) identities that were found to contain what appeared to be silicate or sand and one of them appeared to have blocked the passage of the stomach contents.

It is possible that these fish are ingesting sand with a particle size or external character that is irritating enough to cause a skinning effect or snow ball effect that these fish can not pass due to anatomical constrictions along the digestive tract. Perhaps we are not providing them the right kind of substrate? Perhaps the argonite sands are inadequate? However, without further examinations on multiple specimens none of this can be confirmed.

DISSCLAIMER
I used a quasi scientific method when presenting this thread, but is in no way meant to be the definitive answer. It is of course open to any and all criticism.
__________________
Scott

Dentoid's Reeforama


Last edited by Dentoid : 03-17-2008 at 08:14 AM.
Dentoid is offline   Reply With Quote
ReefSanctuary Sponsor
Old 03-16-2008, 11:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
kathywithbirds
Social Darwinism victim
 
kathywithbirds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Hood, NJ
Posts: 5,711
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

pretty cool. I like this kind of thing, unscientific as I am.

Hey Scott, (I ask in my unscientific thought process) any thoughts on "bloat"? Like in dogs?
__________________
(\ /) This is Bunny crying.
( ; ; ) He thinks Brainy and Bunnina
. ' ' ...are having an affair.


"Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." ~Lin Yutang


Start: 163.5
Current: I'm not looking at the scale, I'm not looking at the scale, I'm not looking at the scale...
kathywithbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2008, 11:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
zy112
Harlequin Tuskfish
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IN
Posts: 984
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Nice study. Going to take a lot of BSJF to come up with a pattern.
__________________
Zach
zy112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2008, 11:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
sasquatch
Brunt of all Jokes~
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the very farthest west coast of canada
Posts: 8,917

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Very impressive Scott! maybe they get so hungry in transit they eat anything? cant see selected dining areas on the sea bed somehow, maybe you could give people some hints on preservation of specimens and how to ship
sasquatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
Dentoid
Over Achiever
 
Dentoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 10,239
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathywithbirds View Post
pretty cool. I like this kind of thing, unscientific as I am.

Hey Scott, (I ask in my unscientific thought process) any thoughts on "bloat"? Like in dogs?

Good question Kathy. The fish did not have the physical appearance of a bloated abdomin though. Good thought prodess though!

Zach, you are right about that! Thanks for looking.

Steve, I do it all for you! Thanks man! Yeah, I have thought about describing a way to preserve the specimens and have them sent to me.

The best way to preserve the specimens would be to place the deceased fish into a 10% formalin solution as soon after death as possible. This is also the best and easiest way to ship the specimen. However, 10% formalin may not be so easy to come by for some. In that case, freezing the fish is the second prefered method, but requires over night shipping.

If anyone is interested in shipping a deceased BS for this project, please send me a PM or e-mail.
__________________
Scott

Dentoid's Reeforama

Dentoid is offline   Reply With Quote
ReefSanctuary Sponsor
Old 03-17-2008, 01:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
goldenmean
Beautiful Katamari
 
goldenmean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,062

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Very Interesting!

good work Scott!
__________________
A 55g link in the GoldenChain

My Second Quarantine Tank

2 (+) Year Retrospective of a 12g Nano

Jeff


What You Think Upon Grows... Have a Smooth Day!
goldenmean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
Anselth
Harlequin Tuskfish
 
Anselth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 906

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Scott, did you examine any of the other organs under the 'scope? As terrible as it sounds, increasing study on this would probably require the dissection of a baseline individual, one that is completely healthy, to note any changes to the internal physiology. If you need any help let me know, my collegiate background is in Marine Bio, and this would definitely be something I would like to help out with.
__________________
-Adam

Learning on the fly
My 70 Gallon Reef

My 110 Gallon Build
Anselth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
wonderloss
Frequent lurker
 
wonderloss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 392
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Interesting thought about the sand. Do you know if this fish was kept in an aquarium with aragonite substrate? What about others that have died from this? Perhaps aragonite is dissolved by stomach acid, but silica sands are not?

Given the prevalence of aragonite over silica sands for aquariums, due to diatom issues, this seems unlikely, but I thought I would throw it out there.
__________________
Rick
My 75 gallon

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB
moral of the story, dont wiggle things at cane spiders
.(\_/) This is Bunny.
( x x ) Copy Bunny into your signature to help
c(")(") him on his way to becoming a coat.
wonderloss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
BarbMazz
Madame Klanganator
 
BarbMazz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 3,178

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Great idea, Scott. I do think that one item looks parasitic, but I understand it's not enough evidence alone. I assume you'll begin a database with these findings so you can start a comparison study?

Maybe the mucus is the body's attempt to expel the sand bits? This is very interesting!

I sure hope more people will send you specimens.
__________________

A Snail's Pace Beginning:
an old lady's first reef

~not knowing how near the truth is
we seek it far away~
BarbMazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
tippMANn98
RS Nano Club UNLTD.
 
tippMANn98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Posts: 2,390

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

all i have to say is:

WOW...amazing documentation Scott
__________________
Daniel W.
Oceanic Bio Cube 29: Current Nova Extreme 4x24w T5 High Output, Sapphire BC29 recirculating Skimmer, Maxi 1200
Are YOU in the NANO CLUB?

My Reef Cronicle
3g Pico: 5/27/08
"Today is the tomorrow that you worried about yesterday"

**Coined term: "Ric-Rock"**

Quote:
"I'm not a gambler, but I am a risk taker." BigAl07
tippMANn98 is offline   Reply With Quote
ReefSanctuary Sponsor
Old 03-17-2008, 01:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
JustDavidP
Midas Blenny
 
JustDavidP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Marlborough, MA
Posts: 97
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

The possible parasite looks Nematoda to me. In infestation of nematodes would certainly bring down a jawfish. Having found just one in the gastro tract, leads me to believe that there wasn't a full blown parasitic issue, but the threadworms could be elsewhere in the fish and cause organ failure.

I've seen nematodes wipe out clam beds on Cape Cod before. I've tweezed out and counted hundreds inside of sub adult quahogs. Blech!

Just my two cents.

D
__________________
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>
·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º>

"Fins to the left...Fins to the Right, I'm going home to play with my reef tonight..."

30+ years in Aquaria - Half in Marine - 6 Years in Reefing, but, always the newbie
JustDavidP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 01:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
lcstorc
Sunshine Reefer
 
lcstorc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cocoa Fl
Posts: 18,412

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Thanks for taking the time to do this study. While you may say it is not scientific it is closer than I have every seen before.
Perhaps some day we can learn the cause of and prevent the problem for future bluespots.
__________________
Peace
LYNN


You can't change the past but you can change how you view it.

A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash.

Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure

Lynn's 20g clown tank

Lynn's 90g of sunshine

Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back.

lcstorc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
CAVINCA
Neon dottyback
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 683
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

that was amazing... i like your documentation... any way i can be the boy that hands you the scalpel???
CAVINCA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 02:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
nikkipigtails
Acropora
 
nikkipigtails's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hillbilly Hell, AL
Posts: 1,952

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

I haven't looked into getting a BSJF for the very reason stated in your Discussion. I have no intention of trying to keep a fish that has such a poor success rate in a home aquarium.

As far as the ingestion of worms or parasites or inadequate shipping and handling are concerned, it seems much more likely that a combination of blockages in the intestinal tract and the ingestion of parasites are to blame for BSJF death especially if the BSJF has BSJF Disease before death. The very nature of the BSJF makes intestinal blockages more possible. After reading your study, your Conclusion also makes me wonder about the differences in sand consistency in the home aquarium compared to the BSJF's natural habitat. I've had several "sensitive" fish shipped in poor conditions and thrive in my home aquarium. Do you think it's possible that if the BSJF ingests a parasite and the intestine is partially or completely blocked by sand, it gives the parasite a better opportunity to infect the BSJF before being passed through the digestive tract? The white spots noted in BSJF Disease could be cysts filled with parasitic offspring. Perhaps a better sand-sifting CUC is necessary to keep the sand the BSJF burrows in free, or free-er, of parasites or worms. Of course, many more dissections would be necessary to see a pattern. Did the fish you dissected appear to have "BSJF Disease"?
__________________
Our 180 Gallon Family Project
nikkipigtails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2008, 08:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
Frankie
Angel Girl's Daddy
 
Frankie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The End Of The World
Posts: 7,099

My ReefSpace
Add yours!
Re: BSJF Necropsy (GRAPHIC)

Very nicely done Scott! I will ship out Monday after Easter to you. There is one benefit to getting the BSJF i have frozen, I froze him before fully dead. He has been in this state since like a rock, so you will get a good specimen.
__________________
Visit my aquarium -->New Horizons By Frankie

Bruce: Today's meeting is Step 5: Bring a fish friend. Everyone brought a fish friend?
DIY=DO IT YOURSELF!

If we ignore the
environment

maybe it will just go away....


Frankie is online now   Reply With Quote
ReefSanctuary Sponsor
Reply

  Reef Sanctuary > Aquarium Club Forums > Bluespot Club



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
©2003-2007 Centropyge Productions LLC
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=


Page generated in 0.24388 seconds with 11 queries

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151