Well... Did it again...

Heliux · 12-22-2008, 01:42 AM

Everyone who knows me in this forum really knows that i tend to learn from experience more so that just reading about stuff.(i learn a lot that way too, just the bad ones only happen).
I got myself a rather good piece of equipment for measuring salinity/SG that is read in brix. Its a Refractometer that is used for wine and is suppose to be a whole lot more exact than regular refractometers. I found out my tank was rather low 1.0187 give or take, and i wanted to atleast get it to 1.022 by the end of the day. I added salt into the tank after mixing in a bucket for 30+ minutes, it was supersaturate, around 10brix(1.414 SG). I poured it into my sump and saw most of my corals and friends close up as the white cloud of supprise rolls over them. I figured it would take a good while for them to flush out the old water and fill back up with the new stuff... 3 days later now... Most of my Xenia Colonies disolved... Some still left but i really dont know how much longer they can be closed up. Finished of my Pocillapora, Killed my Frogspawn, All my sps frags, and my torch coral frags... My clam stayed happy, so did my coltflower, colonial polyp rock, my one mushroom, HammerCoral Hybrid, White cheeked powderbrown tang, anemone, and my toadstool all are fine... Raising my salinity that fast must have been what killed them...

As all of you are probably now bashing your head against the computer monitor and swearing revenge for the corals i lost due to stupidity, just listen to my side... geeez... uhhhh... YIKES... sorry. As long as you learn from your mistakes you are doomed to keep moving forward. Every single time i mess up i cant bring those corals back to life so all me and any one of you can do is learn from it and make the next one happier, and further the progress at ridding stupidity from the hobby.

Any one want to comment on some tips with raising salinity and stuff along those lines would be much appreciated. Gripes are welcome too as long as they are censored, and dont involve a lot of horrid death threats dialed to my home.

Lix

Luukosian · 12-23-2008, 03:08 PM

should have realized that one was a bad idea when you could see the salt crystals undissolved in the bucket...never do that one again huh? lol. We all make mistakes sometimes.

sambrinar · 12-23-2008, 03:24 PM

If I remember correctly Lix, we have had this discussion before... look at your quote from Al. I believe we recommended the mixing of the SW for at least 24 hours... Just had to test it again huh...

Well I hope you learn for sure now... Sorry about your losses, hope things get better soon

sambrinar · 12-23-2008, 03:30 PM

Nope my mistake, last time was a precipt. event with calcium... So good for you for not repeating it!! Now don't repeat this one

BEELZEBOB · 12-23-2008, 03:36 PM

wouldnt a refractometer for wine read dissolved sugars, not salts?

sambrinar · 12-23-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB

wouldnt a refractometer for wine read dissolved sugars, not salts?

Hmmm Bob makes a good point. I have no clue, I have one for SW. Lix you should get at refractometer for SW and compare it to the wine one, or take your SW to the LFS and compare it there

BigAl07 · 12-23-2008, 03:48 PM

For real? DOOD! A "Reef System" is an UBER stable system and ANY changes (regardless of parameter) should be done ultra slowly over time. I would have suggested mixing your top-off water and over the course of MANY days gradually increasing the SG.

Also your SW should be mixed at least ONE day (24hrs) prior to being used. Regardless of how precise your testing equipment if your procedures are flawed it's all useless.

Here is a formula to use from here on out in your working...

Junk IN = Junk OUT!

Sorry for your losses. That's one expensive Uh-OH!

BigAl07 · 12-23-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB

wouldnt a refractometer for wine read dissolved sugars, not salts?

I don't know the comparison but the one I use came with instructions and mention to BOTH but I don't remember if there is a formula/conversion from one to the other. I just remember it did mention MANY other things it would read other than just salt concentration...

Reefmack · 12-23-2008, 07:17 PM

From what I understand a refractometer simply measures the refractive index of a solution, whether it's a salt solution, wine, sugar, whatever. Some have different scales for liquids with a high solids content, like syrup. In our case we use one with a scale that's based on the ranges of what we want to measure - salinity. I think that if the wine refractometer has a scale above & below our targeted salinity that it would be fine to use. But, to be really sure I'd do what sambrinar said and take the refractometer to the lfs and run a test versus theirs, on the same water sample.

Heliux · 12-25-2008, 01:47 PM

I did compare the refractometer to a high grade one at my job, mine was .0003- in comparison. Yes i usually leave my salts mixing for atleast a week... Ugh... im on a roll of disaster but so far so good on learning from personal experience... Now i got to slow down more because im making more enemies than friends by being this dumb... Sorry guys... Guess i learn a lot different than others.

Heliux · 12-25-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl07

I don't know the comparison but the one I use came with instructions and mention to BOTH but I don't remember if there is a formula/conversion from one to the other. I just remember it did mention MANY other things it would read other than just salt concentration...

Formula conversion "1+Brix*.00414=SG"

Reddog170 · 12-26-2008, 12:18 AM

Lix I do not consider you dumb. You have just made a few not so good choices. IMO you are trying. Be suprised how many just give up when there is a problem and done even think about it. You are learning and not repeating your mistakes there fore you have an open mind and a willingness to learn. This is proof that you are not dumb. And I do not like the word dumb anyway. Did you know that Einstein could not even tie his shoes? Keep working at it and keep asking questions, you will get it. Shaun

Heliux · 12-26-2008, 12:34 AM

Thanks Red. Just so everyone knows my tank is running smoothly right now, and for all who have seen my other topic on the clownfish i found, he is doing great now, eating a lot and my tang seems to love her company. I'm making a investment on a 265gallon aquarium hopefully and will work everything its way over to that tank once i get all the live rock pieces i want, and all the required equipment before i even think about transfering my babies over there.

Heliux · 12-26-2008, 11:04 PM

well... tank is looking good. Hopefully i dont find another thing to F*** it up with... again...

rmlevasseur · 12-27-2008, 12:16 AM

I'd suggest an auto topoff. Probably keeps my system more stable than anything else.

12-23-2008, 03:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Luukosian Plate Coral Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Burlington, IA Posts: 735 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Well... Did it again... should have realized that one was a bad idea when you could see the salt crystals undissolved in the bucket...never do that one again huh? lol. We all make mistakes sometimes.

12-23-2008, 03:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
sambrinar recovering overfeeder Join Date: May 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 6,410 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Well... Did it again... If I remember correctly Lix, we have had this discussion before... look at your quote from Al. I believe we recommended the mixing of the SW for at least 24 hours... Just had to test it again huh... Well I hope you learn for sure now... Sorry about your losses, hope things get better soon __________________ Brenda Those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music ~ George Carlin Original member of http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...eef-holic.html My addiction 75 gal glass http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ce-sanity.html

12-23-2008, 03:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
sambrinar recovering overfeeder Join Date: May 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 6,410 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Well... Did it again... Nope my mistake, last time was a precipt. event with calcium... So good for you for not repeating it!! Now don't repeat this one __________________ Brenda Those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music ~ George Carlin Original member of http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...eef-holic.html My addiction 75 gal glass http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ce-sanity.html

12-23-2008, 03:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
BEELZEBOB -CHAUVINIST PIG- Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boulder Colorado Posts: 4,851 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Well... Did it again... wouldnt a refractometer for wine read dissolved sugars, not salts? __________________ 18Gal Mantis Tank 28lbs LR 22lbs Black Sand D&D Typhoone Skimmer96W CL PC (10K + AC) 2 Rio 90 P.H., 1 Nano Korilla Bane the Mantis Shrimp (G.Smithii) LIFE LESSON 8/8/08: Dont Poke Squirrells... LIFE LESSON 8/12/08: Chicks dont dig comic books... LIFE LESSON 8/26/2008: Pain is relative... LIFE LESSON 9/13/2008: Sometimes you just gotta pee in the sink... LIFE LESSON 10/1/2008: Her eyes say more than her mouth... LIFE LESSON 10/1 B: In retrospect, the shooting range was a bad first date idea... LIFE LESSON 10/19/2008: Bleach doesn't work well with out DETERGENT... But with it, WOW! LIFE LESSON 10/25/2008: "You're Such a Man," isnt necessarily a compliment... LIFE LESSON 10/28/2008: RC Helicopters are not Bob Proof... LIFE LESSON 10/29/2008: Dont ** where you eat, UNLESS, you are the company pooper scooper... BARB FREGGIN RULES**

12-23-2008, 03:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
BigAl07 Do I look as lost as I am Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 21,547 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Well... Did it again... For real? DOOD! A "Reef System" is an UBER stable system and ANY changes (regardless of parameter) should be done ultra slowly over time. I would have suggested mixing your top-off water and over the course of MANY days gradually increasing the SG. Also your SW should be mixed at least ONE day (24hrs) prior to being used. Regardless of how precise your testing equipment if your procedures are flawed it's all useless. Here is a formula to use from here on out in your working... *Junk IN = Junk OUT!* Sorry for your losses. That's one expensive Uh-OH! __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Live Rock Rubble will do the SAME thing as Bio-Balls and is NOT a suitable replacement for BIO-BALLS in a Reef System! It's ALL gotta go!!* Nitrate (NO3) reduction is directly proportional to percentage of Water Change. Allen's home-made formula...currentNO3-((%WC.01)currentNO3)=finalNO3 (thanks Luukosian) This means if you change 50% of your total water volume (That's EVERYTHING) you'll get a net reduction of (NO3) somewhere around 50%. Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube Gone but not forgotten BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef

12-23-2008, 07:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
Reefmack NaClH2O Addicted Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC, USA Posts: 6,132 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Well... Did it again... From what I understand a refractometer simply measures the refractive index of a solution, whether it's a salt solution, wine, sugar, whatever. Some have different scales for liquids with a high solids content, like syrup. In our case we use one with a scale that's based on the ranges of what we want to measure - salinity. I think that if the wine refractometer has a scale above & below our targeted salinity that it would be fine to use. But, to be really sure I'd do what sambrinar said and take the refractometer to the lfs and run a test versus theirs, on the same water sample. __________________ aka Terry Excellence in reefkeeping is achieved by mastering the fundamentals, and learning from mistakes. No such thing as an evil crab. Only humans have the ability to be evil. "If you don't like what your fellow forum neighbors are doing, then don't pay so much attention to them" 34g Red Sea Max 130 (April 07), ~50-60 lbs. live rock, Aragonite substrate. Lighting: Current USA Outer Orbit Pro - 150W HQI, 2 x 24W Blue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent by ATI, 2 x 24W Super Actinic T5 HO Fluorescent by UVL, Vortech MP20, LifeReef RSM Siphon, EShopps RS-75 Sump, Euro-Reef custom sump skimmer, Simplicity media reactor, Tunze Osmolator ATO, ReefKeeper Lite L3 controller Reefmack's RSM 130 and...Red Sea Max Owners Club and My JBJ 6G in this thread[/color][/i]

12-26-2008, 12:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
Reddog170 Achilles Tang Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Winfield, IA Posts: 877 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Well... Did it again... Lix I do not consider you dumb. You have just made a few not so good choices. IMO you are trying. Be suprised how many just give up when there is a problem and done even think about it. You are learning and not repeating your mistakes there fore you have an open mind and a willingness to learn. This is proof that you are not dumb. And I do not like the word dumb anyway. Did you know that Einstein could not even tie his shoes? Keep working at it and keep asking questions, you will get it. Shaun __________________ We are defined by the choices in whitch we make. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...t-sw-tank.html Moved to 100 http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ing-100-a.html VISIT MY CLUB SITE: www.iowareefs.com Ask me about Iowa reef events!

12-27-2008, 12:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
rmlevasseur Acropora Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,849 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Well... Did it again... I'd suggest an auto topoff. Probably keeps my system more stable than anything else. __________________ Robert http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ufas-tank.html

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