Going BACK to ocean seawater again...?

[JT101]

I have an AquaPod 24. From August 2007 until January 2008 I had been doing large water changes using ocean seawater I had been harvesting from an ocean inlet. I always collected the water during INCOMING tide and the spot is less than half a mile away from the actual Atlantic Ocean proper.

During the winter I suddenly woke up and realized that I may wind up killing my tank due to pollutants that are common in a NY winter (i.e., runoff containing road salt) so I abandoned the practice and got a 6-stage RO/DI system and began using Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

If you have seen my “brain coral posts” you will see that lately I have been struggling with a problem with three brain corals. However, my palys have not expanded their feeder tentacles as much as they used to for the past several months.

This past Saturday, on a whim, I decided to try the natural ocean seawater thing again. I harvested a few gallons, took it home and warmed it up. I did a 33% WC. Within minutes, my palys began extending their feeder tentacles more than I have seen all summer. I did another 33% change on Sunday and another on Tuesday night. By now, most of the water in my tank is probably NSW all over again. My brains don’t look that much better but my palys look MUCH MUCH better.

I am now afraid to go back to the artificial stuff – I have created a dilemma for myself.

What could be in the NSW that is making my palys so happy that is not in the Tropic Marin?

[Dentoid]

It's hard to say why your palys are vigorous one day when they previously were not. However, the corals we keep in our tanks have lived tens of thousands of years in the ocean and have developed genetically to survive there. It easy to believe that they have a genetic "sense" for natural and synthetic seawater. If nothing else, recognizing the nutritive benefits and soup-like contents of the oceans from which they arose, of which we have not been able to replicate.

[slakker]

I agree, the ocean is a soup that we don't fully know everything about. Synthetic salt let's us minic it good enough to keep a little captive reef inside our house. But if my math is correct, 3x33% water changes still leaves you with about 30% of the original tank water in place.

[lcstorc]

My guess would be small food particles suspended in the water. Do you target feed the corals of feed phyto or something similar to feed the filter feeders?

[JT101]

Originally Posted by Dentoid

It's hard to say why your palys are vigorous one day when they previously were not. However, the corals we keep in our tanks have lived tens of thousands of years in the ocean and have developed genetically to survive there. It easy to believe that they have a genetic "sense" for natural and synthetic seawater. If nothing else, recognizing the nutritive benefits and soup-like contents of the oceans from which they arose, of which we have not been able to replicate.

Good points all of them. My main reason for using NSW from the very beginning was because no amount of convincing from every input I received was able to cause me to believe that anything OTHER than NSW was beneficial to reef tank inhabitants. However, since I am in the vast minority I realized that I am fighting what works for thousands of reef fanatics who have absolutely no access to the ocean whatsoever. In other words "If they can do it, why can't I?", PLUS of course the looming road salt issue that eventually forced me to make the switch before disaster struck.

[JT101]

Originally Posted by slakker

I agree, the ocean is a soup that we don't fully know everything about. Synthetic salt let's us minic it good enough to keep a little captive reef inside our house. But if my math is correct, 3x33% water changes still leaves you with about 30% of the original tank water in place.

I realize I was being loose with my math. Agreed, there is still a portion of my tank water that is artificial in creation, but looking at it another way, almost 3/4 of it isn't.

[JT101]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

My guess would be small food particles suspended in the water. Do you target feed the corals of feed phyto or something similar to feed the filter feeders?

That was my #1 thought. However, I have been target feeding my corals from day 1, however, the presence of some form of planktonic food whenever a WC occured might have just made the corals happier.

PS - My wife is a little pissed at me for this! She said the other day "John, you spent $75 on salt and a couple of hundred $'s on a 'water system" (it also has a booster pump!) and now you're going to just let it SIT and not use it?" ? Well, I tried to counter that by telling her that I will ALWAYS need RO/DI for topoffs but she realizes that that's only a few cups a day...

[jellyman]

Originally Posted by JT101

That was my #1 thought. However, I have been target feeding my corals from day 1, however, the presence of some form of planktonic food whenever a WC occured might have just made the corals happier.

PS - My wife is a little pissed at me for this! She said the other day "John, you spent $75 on salt and a couple of hundred $'s on a 'water system" (it also has a booster tank!) and now you're going to just let it SIT and not use it?" ? Well, I tried to counter that by telling her that I will ALWAYS need RO/DI for topoffs but she realizes that that's only a few cups a day...

Lie to her and tell her you have gone back to synthetic water changes.

[Dentoid]

Originally Posted by jellyman

Lie to her and tell her you have gone back to synthetic water changes.

Ooooh, you are bad, rotten to the core! LOL!

[kathywithbirds]

I am interested in this too. I've been following threads of a few people on a few forums who use NSW for WCs, or from the beginning, or as an additive, etc. and their tanks seem to be doing quite well, if not better than average. All are careful about where and when they collect their NSW of course, and they all keep saying, hey, this is what works for me, I don't advocate it for everyone. They're all also long-time reefers.

I recently added about 2 cups of NSW to my tank plus about a cup of sand from a tidepool and some sargassum (thanks for the ID Matt!) and we shall see what we shall see.

[BigJay]

I've considered this a lot. I can get water directly from the very coral reef where many north american corals come from. If they are living in it why can't mine. That is the thought process that can get you into trouble though and I try to remind myself or have someone else remind me of it.

1. The sea is able to dilute itself very quickly if a pollutant is present. However if you draw the water and get a pollutant our closed system has no way of removing that pollutant fast enough before the possibility of damage already being done.

2. My biggest fear is bacterias. For instance our local waters are known for red tides. I have no idea the implications of introducing that type of bacteria into my tank.

3. Parasites and infections. Being that we have a closed system using synthetic salts we have very little chance of introducing new parasites to the system unless we introduce new stock. Constantly using sea water is almost a guarantee at some point you will introduce some type of free floating larval form that can cause serious damage to the tank inhabitants as you've taken it from trying to shoot ducks in a vast ocean to shooting ducks in a barrel.

Its a hard choice. Like I said I consider it often. At the very least I'd treat the water via UV if nothing else before putting it in my tank.

[Dentoid]

Originally Posted by BigJay

2. My biggest fear is bacterias. For instance our local waters are known for red tides. I have no idea the implications of introducing that type of bacteria into my tank.

Red Tide is caused by an algal bloom. It's an explosive growth of phytoplankton that lowers dissolved oxygen levels and produces higher than normal levels of natural toxins.

[BigJay]

your right dentoid I am not sure why I refered to it as a bacteria thank you for the correction. Sometimes my fingers are moving faster then my brain.

[JT101]

Originally Posted by jellyman

Lie to her and tell her you have gone back to synthetic water changes.

That would be tough to get away with when I walk out the door to hit the inlet and come back with two large jugs filled with water...!!!

[JT101]

Originally Posted by BigJay

I've considered this a lot. I can get water directly from the very coral reef where many north american corals come from. If they are living in it why can't mine. That is the thought process that can get you into trouble though and I try to remind myself or have someone else remind me of it.

1. The sea is able to dilute itself very quickly if a pollutant is present. However if you draw the water and get a pollutant our closed system has no way of removing that pollutant fast enough before the possibility of damage already being done.

Agreed. However, you have to be diligent. If you have access to ocean water like I do, you are ahead of the game. The spot I harvest water from is less than ½ mi from the actual Atlantic Ocean. True, true, there COULD have been a pollutant spill but normally stuff like that gets reported in the news ASAP so if I hear something like that I hold off a few days (PS – never had to do this so far). In the winter it becomes more of a dilemma because even with a clean incoming tide I worry about the area being loaded with runoff from road salt used to melt ice and snow. If I keep doing the NSW thing I may revert back & forth between NSW and ASW in the winter.
PS – I NEVER harvest water right after it rains a lot -I wait a few days.

Originally Posted by BigJay

2. My biggest fear is bacterias. For instance our local waters are known for red tides. I have no idea the implications of introducing that type of bacteria into my tank.

As noted, red tide is not a bacterium but a form of planktonic algae. Either way, you can see it if it’s there. If you can see it, don’t harvest it.

Originally Posted by BigJay

3. Parasites and infections. Being that we have a closed system using synthetic salts we have very little chance of introducing new parasites to the system unless we introduce new stock. Constantly using sea water is almost a guarantee at some point you will introduce some type of free floating larval form that can cause serious damage to the tank inhabitants as you've taken it from trying to shoot ducks in a vast ocean to shooting ducks in a barrel.

This is admittedly a big issue and I admit that I worry about it. However, think about this: I have a hippo tang (see my avatar) that I got last year. These things are known as ich magnets and yet it has never been sick. In fact, nothing in my tank ever suffered any apparent effects of an introduction of parasitic or bacterial invasions when I was using NSW. Ironically, my three brain corals that are limping along only “got sick” this summer – months after I started using Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

Originally Posted by BigJay

Its a hard choice. Like I said I consider it often. At the very least I'd treat the water via UV if nothing else before putting it in my tank.

You see, to me, that looks at cross-purposes to the philosophy behind the whole NSW thing. Why would I want to introduce a nutrient-rich NSW change into my tank but first kill anything and everything that’s in there? I might as well just use ASW in that case.



I realize that I can't speak for everybody but I never had any issues in the past with NSW and only stopped using it in the winter, and never went back until last week. I'm going to continue at it until the winter comes along again. If we have a MILD winter in New York with little snowfall I might keep doing it all winter long, but if we get blasted week after week with blizzards I'll definitely go back to my ASW to play it safe.