My Anemone is no more... - Page 2

BigAl07 · 09-18-2009, 11:11 AM

What size tank is this one in?

marineflake · 09-19-2009, 11:10 AM

My advice, don't touch it. Nems, especially BTA's are far sturdier than a lot of people understand. If the nem is recovering, leave it alone, by all means. Once it's mouth tightens up and the tenticle are, shall we say, in working condition again, I would offer it 1/3 or 1/4 piece of silverside. If the BTA accepts it, great, continue that every 3 - 4 days until she's looking healthy again. IF the BTA does not, do not attempt to force it to eat, simple remove the piece and try again in a day or two. If your lucky, she may split as a result leaving you with a clone as well. Fragging a nem is completely do'able but it doesn't sound like you have experience with fragging nems, so the best advice is don't make a bad situation worse. Would be fantastic if we could see some photos of the recovery. Best of luck!

minicrazy592 · 09-21-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marineflake

My advice, don't touch it. Nems, especially BTA's are far sturdier than a lot of people understand. If the nem is recovering, leave it alone, by all means. Once it's mouth tightens up and the tenticle are, shall we say, in working condition again, I would offer it 1/3 or 1/4 piece of silverside. If the BTA accepts it, great, continue that every 3 - 4 days until she's looking healthy again. IF the BTA does not, do not attempt to force it to eat, simple remove the piece and try again in a day or two. If your lucky, she may split as a result leaving you with a clone as well. Fragging a nem is completely do'able but it doesn't sound like you have experience with fragging nems, so the best advice is don't make a bad situation worse. Would be fantastic if we could see some photos of the recovery. Best of luck!

Thanks!

I woke up this morning and he moved here. He use to be on the opposite side of the tank. He's starting to release his base, so I guess he's going to move again. I gave it about half of a silver side on Friday once his mouth was back to normal. He ate it all. I think I'm going to give it another one later since he's a little stringy looking today. Other than that he seems all back to normal.

Oh and this is in the 20g. Also any tricks for tricking a clownfish into hosting an anemone?

BigAl07 · 09-21-2009, 08:48 PM

Not to bust your chops but:

A) that's a bit (a good bit) on the small side for this anemone.

B) your tank is WAY to new for any anemone. It's suggested that a tank be mature and STABLE for almost a year (not just wet but stable) before adding an anemone.

C) What light fixture are you running on this tank? I know somewhere you mentioned a "Coralife" unit and I'm confident that unless it's a MH fixture it's way insufficient for this animal.

BigAl07 · 09-21-2009, 08:50 PM

Just for example here are some stats for a RBTA

Quote:

Rose Bulb Anemone
(Entacmaea quadricolor)
QUICK STATS
Minimum Tank Size: 30 gallons
Care Level: Moderate
Temperament: Semi-aggressive
Reef Compatible: Yes
Lighting: Moderate to High
Waterflow: Medium
Water Conditions: 72-78° F, pH 8.1-8.4, sg 1.023-1.025
Max. Size: 1'
Color Form: Red
Supplements: Iodine, Trace Elements
Origin: Fiji, Indonesia
Family: Actiniidae

minicrazy592 · 09-21-2009, 08:53 PM

I bought him that small. If all else fails and he's not thriving I'll give him away. I've had luck before with wild anemones in my tanks, so I'm hoping this one will be the same. Maybe I'm just too optimistic lol.

BigAl07 · 09-21-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minicrazy592

I bought him that small. If all else fails and he's not thriving I'll give him away. I've had luck before with wild anemones in my tanks, so I'm hoping this one will be the same. Maybe I'm just too optimistic lol.

Optimism isn't a bad thing but you're REALLY stacking the cards against your success and worse over it's a matter of this animals LIFE we're dealing with. You have a moral responsibility to at least meet MINIMUM requirements to keep this animal alive and thriving. I'm sorry to say you may not get much positive reinforcement for acting in such a reckless and careless manner on this one. Many of us a very passionate about this and not overly happy with recklessness.

minicrazy592 · 09-21-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAl07

Optimism isn't a bad thing but you're REALLY stacking the cards against your success and worse over it's a matter of this animals LIFE we're dealing with. You have a moral responsibility to at least meet MINIMUM requirements to keep this animal alive and thriving. I'm sorry to say you may not get much positive reinforcement for acting in such a reckless and careless manner on this one. Many of us a very passionate about this and not overly happy with recklessness.

Recklessness is not feeding it, not having your lights on a schedule, having crappy water parameters, etc. So I don't have a 30g aquarium. I didn't have a 20g when I first got my clownfish a few years ago either and he thrived in 5g. If I had followed exact parameters when I had that 5g, it would of been just a tank of water, rocks, and sand. When the day comes and he's a little too big for my aquarium, I will give him away to someone who has a big enough tank and start over again with another one. Isn't that a part of this hobby? Challenging ourselves to take care of something that shouldn't exist in captivity anyway? I personally don't want a tank that all I do is look at it, I want to take care of it. If that means it has to be high maintenance, then oh well, that's why it is a hobby.

And if we are on the subject of life, then everyone should feel guilty for that first fish that everyone eventually looses in their first tank. I lost mine, learned from what went wrong, and went on down the road.

minicrazy592 · 09-21-2009, 11:44 PM

On a funny note, the epic struggle for a silverside between the shrimp, the snails, and the hermit crabs. XD

BigAl07 · 09-22-2009, 09:30 AM

Challenging yourself to take care of an animal is one thing but intentionally not providing what has been proven time and again to be the Minimum requirements for the animal is something entirely different. It's called recklessness or could be called some other much more brutal. It's not JUST the size of the tank that you're cutting corners on . . .

You JUST started this tank a few short WEEKS ago....
Your lights are "suspect" but I can't find the details so that's still a "fuzzy" area at best....

AND
size of the
tank is questionable at best even if this were an established system...

No that's much worse than "Challenging yourself"... that's setting your animals up for disaster and honestly THEY end up paying the big price for your "Challenge".

lcstorc · 09-22-2009, 11:24 AM

What a misleading title. I thought the nem was gone.
BTAs can be rather resiliant but only to certain kinds of abuse. I myself have seen them successfully fragged and there is actually an argument to be made that there is no reason for us to take this animal from the wild at this point because of it.
Now fragging an anemone is completely different that shreading an anemone. Fragging is carefully taking a scalpel or very sharp implement and carefully cutting it down the center. You flat out got lucky and yours lived.
Not sure what you are talking about when you say wild anemones have done fine in your tank. I can only assume you mean aiptasia or manjano which are extremely difficult to kill anemones and do not indicate the ability to keep a BTA or other "host" anemone.
To address one question there is no way to "trick" your clowns. Some people have had success taping a pic of a clown and anemone to the glass but they will do what they will do.
Now all of this is overshadowed by the fact that your tank is just not ready or appropriate for the animal at all. How do you know your clown was happy in the 5gal? You know it lived but that is all. Would you like to live in a closet? You would live if someone tossed in some food and water every now and then and cleaned up your waste partially, but is that the environment you want to provide for your animals?
Flying in the face of well known practices can be done but needs to be done carefully. For example, I am breaking one of the rules for this animal and do have one in a 20g tank. It is however an established tank of about 2 years, has very strong T5 lighting and is religiously maintained and tested. The nem has not moved and has only split once indicating it is a healthy animal.
As far as your analogy about the first fish that dies, if you recklessly put a fish in an inappropriate environment and it dies then yes that is just as bad. I have cried over every fish that has died in my care and I have learned a lesson each and every time.
It is our responsibility to provide as appropriate as possible environment as possible for these animals we take from the wild.
Yes we need to strech the boundaries to learn from them but that should be done in controlled environments where one variable at a time can be tested and proven to be successful.
Sorry, this post is all over the place, but there are so many things to address here that I kind of lost track.
Bottom line, if you don't have the lights, then giive it away immediately. If you have the lights then be very very careful about you parameters and if you can keep them very very good then watch the animal carefully and remove at the first sign of trouble. Anemones are very slow to show problems so by the time you see it look poorly it has been going downhill for months. If it does not settle down soon, then find a more appropriate habitat immediately. Happy anemones rarely move. They find a "happy" place and stay there.

minicrazy592 · 09-22-2009, 05:09 PM

The original post was about how my anemone got sucked up into my filter. I thought it was going to kick the bucket. Well I over reacted. He was fine the next day. Then BigAl brought up my thread of where I set up my tank with actual purified sea water instead of a salt mix. The sea water was guaranteed to be able to add fish instantly, so that's what I did a few weeks ago. That was how I have always set up my tanks in the past and I haven't had any issues with it. Then we brought up tank size. Yes, I do have a tank that is on the small size for this creature. It is the only thing in my tank that isn't meant for this size aquarium. No, I do not have a way to tell if my fish are happy. My clownfish is a grand total of 1.75in and I have had him for 2 and a half years. So going on the rule of 2g/in that means my clown needs 4g of water, so yes, my 5g was cutting it close.

As for lighting, I have a Coral life 28in fixture with T-5 10k and Actinic bulb. This is producing 2watts per gallon, which is bad. It's fine for my polyp and mushroom coral, but it's a little weak for the anemone. My LFS is saying what I have, I've even shown them, isn't the best, but is ok for him in the meantime. They said once I have the funds, I should invest in some compact fluorescents, those are what I should really have for it.

I asked today if I should let them have it back and they said as long as he's opening up, eating silver sides when I feed him, and isn't bleaching, he's fine. Not the best, but fine. I trust them.

marineflake · 09-22-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minicrazy592

...I woke up this morning and he moved here. He use to be on the opposite side of the tank. He's starting to release his base, so I guess he's going to move again. I gave it about half of a silver side on Friday once his mouth was back to normal. He ate it all. I think I'm going to give it another one later since he's a little stringy looking today. Other than that he seems all back to normal...

Thats awesome, keep up the good work, keep a close on your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate params if you haven't feed before. Feeding will add to the tank's 'bio load'. Good photo btw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by minicrazy592

...Oh and this is in the 20g.

I had my GBTA in a 29g for a couple years. What I learned is that having a small tank means basically having a nem only tank. Once my nem got to be about 12 or so inches across, it could reach other corals near by and I haven't found one yet that wins against the sting of a good healthy nem ; ) Fortunately the nem didn't move, she stayed very happy until a recent move to a new 135g where she seems alittle off-put by her new larger setting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by minicrazy592

Also any tricks for tricking a clownfish into hosting an anemone?

Nope.

BigAl07 · 09-22-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minicrazy592

The original post was about how my anemone got sucked up into my filter. I thought it was going to kick the bucket. Well I over reacted. He was fine the next day. Then BigAl brought up my thread of where I set up my tank with actual purified sea water instead of a salt mix. The sea water was guaranteed to be able to add fish instantly, so that's what I did a few weeks ago. That was how I have always set up my tanks in the past and I haven't had any issues with it. Then we brought up tank size. Yes, I do have a tank that is on the small size for this creature. It is the only thing in my tank that isn't meant for this size aquarium. No, I do not have a way to tell if my fish are happy. My clownfish is a grand total of 1.75in and I have had him for 2 and a half years. So going on the rule of 2g/in that means my clown needs 4g of water, so yes, my 5g was cutting it close.

As for lighting, I have a Coral life 28in fixture with T-5 10k and Actinic bulb. This is producing 2watts per gallon, which is bad. It's fine for my polyp and mushroom coral, but it's a little weak for the anemone. My LFS is saying what I have, I've even shown them, isn't the best, but is ok for him in the meantime. They said once I have the funds, I should invest in some compact fluorescents, those are what I should really have for it.

I asked today if I should let them have it back and they said as long as he's opening up, eating silver sides when I feed him, and isn't bleaching, he's fine. Not the best, but fine. I trust them.

It's your tank and your money but I can tell you this much... your LFS is leading you 100% in the wrong direction. I'm done with this thread as it's merely only going to cause hard-ships between you and I and for that I do apologize. I only try to help and give some quality/experienced and most of all unbiased advice. I have nothing to gain from you failing in the least unlike your LFS. I think you at least deserve to know the facts so you can make a half way educated decision on your tank. The mere fact you said "Watts per Gallon" speaks volumes about your LFS and when they suggested you "DOWNGRADE" to CF that really seals the deal.

I wish you the best of luck with your experiment and I hope in 12 months you can come back and say,

Quote:

"BigAl I told you so. Look at my tank how it's thrived since day one!"

I will gladly admit I was wrong.

Good luck and Happy Reefing

minicrazy592 · 09-24-2009, 01:06 PM

A CF of the same length is still a downgrade? I wasn't aware of that.

Anyway the nem was at it again last night. He decided to move again after being on the glass for a few days. This time he moved near the back top corner by my Hydor Koralia. You can guess what happened. This time he wasn't so lucky. I lost 50% of him. The 50% that is left has once again amazed me by acting as if nothing has happened. I ended up fragging him from the mangled section and hoping for the best.

This is how he looked after last night after the fragging

This is today

How does everyone keep their nems out of their equipment? I have plastic netting over the filters, but I didn't think my koralia was a problem. I now know it is, so any ideas?

09-18-2009, 11:11 AM	#16 (permalink)
BigAl07 Do I look as lost as I am Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 21,547 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My Anemone is no more... What size tank is this one in? __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Live Rock Rubble will do the SAME thing as Bio-Balls and is NOT a suitable replacement for BIO-BALLS in a Reef System! It's ALL gotta go!!* Nitrate (NO3) reduction is directly proportional to percentage of Water Change. Allen's home-made formula...currentNO3-((%WC.01)currentNO3)=finalNO3 (thanks Luukosian) This means if you change 50% of your total water volume (That's EVERYTHING) you'll get a net reduction of (NO3) somewhere around 50%. Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube Gone but not forgotten BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef

09-19-2009, 11:10 AM	#17 (permalink)
marineflake Tunicate Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Memphis, Tn, USA Posts: 9 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: My Anemone is no more... My advice, don't touch it. Nems, especially BTA's are far sturdier than a lot of people understand. If the nem is recovering, leave it alone, by all means. Once it's mouth tightens up and the tenticle are, shall we say, in working condition again, I would offer it 1/3 or 1/4 piece of silverside. If the BTA accepts it, great, continue that every 3 - 4 days until she's looking healthy again. IF the BTA does not, do not attempt to force it to eat, simple remove the piece and try again in a day or two. If your lucky, she may split as a result leaving you with a clone as well. Fragging a nem is completely do'able but it doesn't sound like you have experience with fragging nems, so the best advice is don't make a bad situation worse. Would be fantastic if we could see some photos of the recovery. Best of luck!

09-21-2009, 08:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
BigAl07 Do I look as lost as I am Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 21,547 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My Anemone is no more... Not to bust your chops but: A) that's a bit (a good bit) on the small side for this anemone. B) your tank is WAY to new for any anemone. It's suggested that a tank be mature and STABLE for almost a year (not just wet but stable) before adding an anemone. C) What light fixture are you running on this tank? I know somewhere you mentioned a "Coralife" unit and I'm confident that unless it's a MH fixture it's way insufficient for this animal. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Live Rock Rubble will do the SAME thing as Bio-Balls and is NOT a suitable replacement for BIO-BALLS in a Reef System! It's ALL gotta go!!* Nitrate (NO3) reduction is directly proportional to percentage of Water Change. Allen's home-made formula...currentNO3-((%WC.01)currentNO3)=finalNO3 (thanks Luukosian) This means if you change 50% of your total water volume (That's EVERYTHING) you'll get a net reduction of (NO3) somewhere around 50%. Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube Gone but not forgotten BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef

09-21-2009, 08:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
minicrazy592 Fire Coral Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 80 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: My Anemone is no more... I bought him that small. If all else fails and he's not thriving I'll give him away. I've had luck before with wild anemones in my tanks, so I'm hoping this one will be the same. Maybe I'm just too optimistic lol.

09-21-2009, 11:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
minicrazy592 Fire Coral Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 80 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: My Anemone is no more... On a funny note, the epic struggle for a silverside between the shrimp, the snails, and the hermit crabs. XD

09-22-2009, 09:30 AM	#25 (permalink)
BigAl07 Do I look as lost as I am Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 21,547 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My Anemone is no more... Challenging yourself to take care of an animal is one thing but intentionally not providing what has been proven time and again to be the *Minimum* requirements for the animal is something entirely different. It's called *recklessness* or could be called some other much more brutal. It's not JUST the size of the tank that you're cutting corners on . . . You JUST started this tank a few short WEEKS ago.... Your lights are "suspect" but I can't find the details so that's still a "fuzzy" area at best.... AND size of the tank is questionable at best even if this were an established system... No that's much worse than "Challenging yourself"... that's setting your animals up for disaster and honestly THEY end up paying the big price for your "Challenge". __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Live Rock Rubble will do the SAME thing as Bio-Balls and is NOT a suitable replacement for BIO-BALLS in a Reef System! It's ALL gotta go!!* Nitrate (NO3) reduction is directly proportional to percentage of Water Change. Allen's home-made formula...currentNO3-((%WC.01)currentNO3)=finalNO3 (thanks Luukosian) This means if you change 50% of your total water volume (That's EVERYTHING) you'll get a net reduction of (NO3) somewhere around 50%. Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube Gone but not forgotten BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef

09-22-2009, 11:24 AM	#26 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 26,433 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: My Anemone is no more... What a misleading title. I thought the nem was gone. BTAs can be rather resiliant but only to certain kinds of abuse. I myself have seen them successfully fragged and there is actually an argument to be made that there is no reason for us to take this animal from the wild at this point because of it. Now fragging an anemone is completely different that shreading an anemone. Fragging is carefully taking a scalpel or very sharp implement and carefully cutting it down the center. You flat out got lucky and yours lived. Not sure what you are talking about when you say wild anemones have done fine in your tank. I can only assume you mean aiptasia or manjano which are extremely difficult to kill anemones and do not indicate the ability to keep a BTA or other "host" anemone. To address one question there is no way to "trick" your clowns. Some people have had success taping a pic of a clown and anemone to the glass but they will do what they will do. Now all of this is overshadowed by the fact that your tank is just not ready or appropriate for the animal at all. How do you know your clown was happy in the 5gal? You know it lived but that is all. Would you like to live in a closet? You would live if someone tossed in some food and water every now and then and cleaned up your waste partially, but is that the environment you want to provide for your animals? Flying in the face of well known practices can be done but needs to be done carefully. For example, I am breaking one of the rules for this animal and do have one in a 20g tank. It is however an established tank of about 2 years, has very strong T5 lighting and is religiously maintained and tested. The nem has not moved and has only split once indicating it is a healthy animal. As far as your analogy about the first fish that dies, if you recklessly put a fish in an inappropriate environment and it dies then yes that is just as bad. I have cried over every fish that has died in my care and I have learned a lesson each and every time. It is our responsibility to provide as appropriate as possible environment as possible for these animals we take from the wild. Yes we need to strech the boundaries to learn from them but that should be done in controlled environments where one variable at a time can be tested and proven to be successful. Sorry, this post is all over the place, but there are so many things to address here that I kind of lost track. Bottom line, if you don't have the lights, then giive it away immediately. If you have the lights then be very very careful about you parameters and if you can keep them very very good then watch the animal carefully and remove at the first sign of trouble. Anemones are very slow to show problems so by the time you see it look poorly it has been going downhill for months. If it does not settle down soon, then find a more appropriate habitat immediately. Happy anemones rarely move. They find a "happy" place and stay there. __________________ Peace LYNN Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Lynn's frag tank experiment A reef tank is like a race car. The faster you go the harder you crash.

09-22-2009, 05:09 PM	#27 (permalink)
minicrazy592 Fire Coral Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 80 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: My Anemone is no more... The original post was about how my anemone got sucked up into my filter. I thought it was going to kick the bucket. Well I over reacted. He was fine the next day. Then BigAl brought up my thread of where I set up my tank with actual purified sea water instead of a salt mix. The sea water was guaranteed to be able to add fish instantly, so that's what I did a few weeks ago. That was how I have always set up my tanks in the past and I haven't had any issues with it. Then we brought up tank size. Yes, I do have a tank that is on the small size for this creature. It is the only thing in my tank that isn't meant for this size aquarium. No, I do not have a way to tell if my fish are happy. My clownfish is a grand total of 1.75in and I have had him for 2 and a half years. So going on the rule of 2g/in that means my clown needs 4g of water, so yes, my 5g was cutting it close. As for lighting, I have a Coral life 28in fixture with T-5 10k and Actinic bulb. This is producing 2watts per gallon, which is bad. It's fine for my polyp and mushroom coral, but it's a little weak for the anemone. My LFS is saying what I have, I've even shown them, isn't the best, but is ok for him in the meantime. They said once I have the funds, I should invest in some compact fluorescents, those are what I should really have for it. I asked today if I should let them have it back and they said as long as he's opening up, eating silver sides when I feed him, and isn't bleaching, he's fine. Not the best, but fine. I trust them.

09-24-2009, 01:06 PM	#30 (permalink)
minicrazy592 Fire Coral Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 80 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: My Anemone is no more... A CF of the same length is still a downgrade? I wasn't aware of that. Anyway the nem was at it again last night. He decided to move again after being on the glass for a few days. This time he moved near the back top corner by my Hydor Koralia. You can guess what happened. This time he wasn't so lucky. I lost 50% of him. The 50% that is left has once again amazed me by acting as if nothing has happened. I ended up fragging him from the mangled section and hoping for the best. This is how he looked after last night after the fragging This is today How does everyone keep their nems out of their equipment? I have plastic netting over the filters, but I didn't think my koralia was a problem. I now know it is, so any ideas?

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