[prow]

Originally Posted by BarbMazz

What you replied with makes things even more clear. YOWZA!

nice, that is exactly what i was trying to do in the first post. not give a how to but to help those just getting into it, get an understanding of the "big picture" and some ways of control. that way when you start getting into discussion involving all the little "big" things- the more detailed stuff like in the second post big post- you can get your head around all the dynamics involved and "get it" also when you look into the various system (plenums, scrubbers, berlin ect....) i hope it helps mainly with future learning.

*one note on algae, it has its own cycle like bacteria and others too. NH3 has other pathways and algae eat it up like bac only diff.....just another reason to go slow with stocking levels remember some setups use mainly algae while others bacteria and so on. but in all systems there are many "cycles" going on and no matter what system your running the effect and interact with eachother. "changes in this cycle results in changes in that cycle"

Up to this point I've been planning to use LR/LS from

this is a quote off their site about the LR.

Several species of Caulerpa are found along with fleshy red and brown turf alga. Bryozoans are also common, both encrusting and bushy. Many small invertebrates such as small crabs, snails, and worms live on the rocks, including limpets and astrea snails. The list of species continues to grow with every trip. See our current catalog of organisms consisting of pictures taken by our customers.

that is enough for me to just say naaa, maybe if i could see it before i buy. but caulerpa, turf algae, bryozoans whatever crabs and stuff make it, na. thats just me though, maybe you plan on keeping things that need/like or are ok with those thing comes down to other things like what corals and stuff will be in there. just like fish compatibility, to eachother or corals or inverts or algae(if you look at it from the algaes point of view). everything else works togather or not, some macro and micro algea is compatible with some corals but not all. with corals its the same thing, some are cool with this algae growing or that fish or invert some are not. kinda why i picked a setup that did not included to much added stuff to think about. the ultimate goal keeping all those colorful corals and fishes you will learn all kinds of things along the way, this was just to get you going in the right direction. "raw/fresh" LR has lots of goodies and/or nasties to learn about, depending on the total system, fish and corals you can either set it up with that rock and add coral that fit in with what ever is growing or HH in. many will fit in. or if needed deal with whatever is in there to allow for whatever corals you like. dont go to fast in learning, best to get a good solid base and filtration is great place to start. deciding what skimmer, learning how the skimmer works and how it helps should be much easier to understand now. if/or what to put in the sump refugium and how to set that up. like increased lighting for the refugium % wise than in the main tank, that encourages algae to grow in the sump not main tank. lots to learn-its never ending. but by no means do you need to know everything inorder to have a sweet tank and enjoy everything you raised

Live Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater Aquacultured Live Rock. I am/was (we'll see now) going to purchase "The Package" for my tank. When you have time would you please read about it? It's the reason I asked about "fresh/raw" LR.

did not get to that sec. reading about the LR was enough. but again thats just my opinion and i happen to like to keep mmmm some sensitive corals that dont like caulerpa or bryozoans things growing around/on them. some corals coiuld careless. now is a good time to get in the habbit of reseaching anything and everything you plan on putting in the tank-both live and stuff used, anything.

After reading their setup instructions, it matches up pretty well with your adding LR at the beginning that would include a lot of water changes in the beginning. TBSW says to do water changes when nitrAte goes above a certain level.

yup and as you know there is a little more to it than that to it

People have mentioned that there are unwanted HH's on this rock, but I was thinking that may be kind of cool because I've not had a marine tank before. It seems attractive because I will experience more, see more, and know more.

hehe, been there done that. and yeah its pretty cool. i still enjoy it. i only perfer to use mostly based with some LR. the whole curing process, i hate doing it. i would rather build up than clean up what can i say, i have control issues....

Anyway, I'd love your opinion on that stuff. A few members here used it and seemed to have loved it: Dentoid, Goldenmean, and I think a couple of others. Terry, maybe?

o yeah i can understand why. i would just rather use a couple peices of that rock and try to control how much of what grows-- +HH its that control issue again

I am planning on a DSB. The LS provided from TBSW is 1lb p/gallon, so I'll have 65lbs of LS from them, and planned on making up the difference with sugar-fine aragonite sand. I know now it's important to be especially patient if I want to go the way of aerobic/anaerobic bacteria biofiltration. I know I can do that because this project will not have an end; it will be a work of art in progress for as long as I care to do it.

ok first, DSB are, you guessed it, a huge topic all its own i will say a couple things here though;
1. do read up on it. hopefully you will get more out of your research now.
2. it needs the same care as LR only different what i mean is it needs special care/setup considerations and maintenance. ex. keeping creature from digging down bringing O2 in and disturbing the anaerobic zones; many use layers of screening to avoid possible compications from this. there is more, much more, like said its a huge topic.
3. the amount of sand need is not determined by lbs/gal. is based on sq.”/grian size and wt. there are calculators to use, post a new thread on DSB setups before you set up yours to get more specific info.

One question that popped in mind; How exactly does one tell that anaerobic bacteria is in fact growing and there? Is it the lack of the bothersome types of algae growth?

easy. about the algae first, you will see it grow but dont let it become too prolific and start overgrowing everywhere. shoot for no growth but dont fight some, its going to grow no matter just keep it in super check as best you can at first, later it makes life a lot easier in keeping in check. when you get a chance, lol, try look into how algae works "cycles" not sure if thats the right word.

on the anaerobic bacterial activity, at first you wll not see much of anything but after they gets going air bubbles will start to come from the rock and sand bed. these are nirtogen gas bubbles that harmlessly float up and out into the atmosphere . remember anaerobic bac eatup NO3 and turn it into a nitrogenous gases, no worries though, those harmlessly floating up and out into atmosphere bubbles may seem like they will never end, but once the anaerobics establish the bubble production will slow to the point where the N gets reabsorbed to levels that you will not see anymore bubbles

HEY CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!! you just avoided the headache of looking for a air leak or messing with your skimmer and pumps because your getting all these micro bubbles form somewhere. you know now the likely cause of these in a few months for ref. this part, i know its a little tech, its in the dissimilation part of that link-the denitrification process of how anaerobics break down NO3. -that link goes into part of the nitrogen cycle many dont, just knowing that you one up one most, you deserve a little something for that

--here is a link that lists and gives a brief discription of a couple different setups-it might start to become to a little clearer on how they work and what the goals are of each one. Silent revolution | Practical Fishkeeping magazine

Thanks again SO much. You're GRAPE (great. my daughter says grape & i love that!) for taking the time to post this. I'm sure you have no idea how timely this is! If you were here I'd give you a hug for REAL.

P.S. feel free to post any questions here, i dont want to make you think its a bother or anything like at all. i will do my best to give my thoughts on whatever and love reefing so its all good, but you might want to post questions on stuff like setting up a DSB on a thread of its own. there are a lot of good people and knowlegable reefers here that i am sure will have good input/ideas for ya. i will look out for any postings of course just might be able to go more indepth on this or that subject. now that you have a idea (or will have after digesting all this stuff) of how the dynamics work you can learn more, and more importantly comprehend what your learning. you know so we can make better/more informed choices in providing the best envirornment for your fishes/corals ect...