Originally Posted by charlesr1958  "Does this mean that these organisums are responsable for the fishes death?" Most likely yes, and such an observation/exam would make a lot more sense for a cause than someone taking wild guesses or figuring out that a coral should be light acclimated.
There are many organisums that take part in the decomposition of dead and dieing animal tissue. On land its insects and their larvae, bacteria, fungus, and many other organisums. In our oceans there are just as many if not more. To find unknown organisums in these tissues and then say that these organisum are responsable for the death of the animal is a very large leap.
If a coral shows symptoms and one does not know what these symptoms mean, how can they fix the problem the coral is having? To properly acclimate a coral to lighting you would need to know what the different signs are that a coral will display, what those signs mean, and what we can do in response to those signs. A great number of these corals are dieing simply because people don't know what the different signs mean. These corals are not reacting in the same way most other LPS's do. This does not amount to simple LPS care as we know it.
"The point that I was trying to make was that these corals can be damaged far easier than other LPS's. "
Damaged in what way?
Again, this has been explained. The first coral that I lost in this study was due to a shrimp walking across the corals polup and puncturing the corals tissue. I have had clown fish peck holes in them, and Royal Gramas with ich damage them when they were used as a scratching post.
and why easier?
Again, been discussed. I don't know why. I don't need to know why. If my goal is to keep them alive all I need to know is that this can take place and avoid those things that can cause them harm. I took a guess at this before. You didn't like my guess, so feel free to come up with your own.How did you come to that conclussion?
Answered above.
You state that you can not prove this and that it is not fact, yet you make conclussions. I or anyone can throw wild guesses around all day. How is that helpfull?
Don't confuse issues. I can not prove the skin thickness part of this. A newly interduced Elegance will show the symptoms above. Any one that wishes to can test this for themselves. After they have acclamated to tank life they become much tougher. I don't know why this is and don't need to know why at this point.
When I read through your postings, it gives the impression that you are claiming to have a cure for what has been ailing these corals by taking good care of them. While I am sure such care is helpfull to the corals, you seem to be mixing possible causes up and are making assumptions based on just pure speculation. "I wanted to find a way to keep them alive. I can do this now." Thats great, but again, proves nothing as to the causes of their initial problem, Is it the disease or is it just poor care? And I am speaking of your specimens, which I would suspect is not the disease since yours bleached, which is not indicative of the disease and is one of poor handling/care instead.
I only have 3 that have bleached, and one of those were bleached when I got it. One of the others bleached because I had it in very, very little light. The other was partially bleached when I got it and continued to bleach, I believe, because the light was slightly to intence for it.
"You are not trying to help anyone with this problem." I can not be of help if I do not know the cause or any possible cure. I am simply pointing out the fact that you are not helping either, other than repeating known care.
Again, not known care. If it were they would not be dieing in the numbers that they are. These corals need to be cared for in a different manner than other LPS corals. If I am keeping my corals alive with simple LPS care then everyone else should be keeping these corals alive also. They're not. This is because what I am doing is different then what they are doing.
"EDITED." Why? because I am not hailing wild guesses or patting you on the back for figuring out that an LPS or any coral for that matter stands a better chance of doing well if cared for properly?
No one has known how to care for these corals. This is why they have been dieing. Am I not allowed to take a guess at something if I persent it as such? If you don't agree with a guess I make that is fine, but to use it in an attempt to discredit all the other work I have done is not.
Why are you so defensive or offended if I or anyone questions something or points out what should be obvious? As I've said before, the only claim you can make is that you have figured out how to care for an LPS, thats nice, but thats about all it is. You have no way to know what the cause is. period. If someone does have a coral that is "infected", such basic care is about all you can do, and pointing that out is....nice.
I don't need to prove the cause if i can pull them through the symptoms. Someone else with more experience in that area can prove the cause. Based on my observations I should be able to present a theory as to the cause. However, this is irrelevant as far as what I am trying to do. If I can aid people in keeping these corals alive then I have accomplished my goal. To tell people to use simple LPS care will not accomplish this goal.
I have collected, in the same manner that the collectors do, specimens (elegance) from shallow water (5-10feet) and from deep water (30-40feet) and have never had any issue with either of the two...ever. Even when allowed to sit in an open bucket in the sun. It is much more likely that the corals are being infected during initial handling/shipping.
I talked with a lady that was on a boat during a collection expadition where they were bring up Elegance corals from deeper water. By the time these corals made it to the boat they were showing the over inflated oral disk and shrunken tentacles. She concluded that this was due to the difference in pressure the coral had just gone through, witch is a logical assumption. However, I know this to be a symptom of light exposure. This seemed to be a very nice lady with no agenda and nothing to prove. .
Why am I in this thread? Simply because I found your initial claims to be possibly misleading and amount to nothing more than ancedotal (and most likely incorrect) observations. Once again, you figured out that the corals should be placed lower in a tank to avoid light acclimation issues or issues of too much light, thats great and I do not have a problem with that as you seem to think. But you also lead others into thinking that you have found the answer to what has been ailing these corals which might encourage them to purchase the corals, which is what I have a problem with. The title of Elegance coral project" should have read "how to care for an LPS", then I would not have even wasted my time to open the thread. |