Time to improve parameters?

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Is it time to improve parameters in my C130?

I really, really, really, don't want to chase numbers though! I want a maintenance regime that is sustainable through times of "distractions" away from my reef tank. I've said this before in other posts and that additives can do more harm than good if your not careful! BUT......

Now I've gone from a 24g Nano Cube to the C130 and trying to get my corals to thrive and grow more, maybe I need to stop relying on just water changes?!

For example, over the weeks I've been looking at KH and Calcium. If I do nothing between my water changes (H2Ocean) I get;

Calcium dropping from 280 to 230
KH dropping from 9 to 5

Although I don't currently measure Magnesium (yet!), I'm sure this will be dropping similarly.

SO, the big question is, is it now time to join the Red Sea Foundation "club" and start using the "A" and "C" additives? (I already use Salifert's KH & PH buffer to help KH).

Recommendations would be appreciated on this. Am I going down the right route with Reef Foundation or is there an easier product?
 
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mike1970

Active Member
The best product is the one that works for you. Wow 280 calc and 5 dkh is pretty low what coral are you keeping? I keep my parameters at this level and I have mixed reef LPS, SPS, and some softeys
Alk. 9 DKH brightwell code B
Calc. 430 Ppm brightwell code A
Mag. 1350 brightwell Magnesium I don't have to dose this to much I do a 10 gal water change every week with Red Sea coral pro salt
Right now I'm hand dosing everyday I test every 3 days just to make sure everything is in check
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Good job you didn't note my lower CA number :winky:

I've just done my weekly water change and could only get the CA up to 250 this week so I think I have answered my own question about the "need" for additives.

Will just get my LFS to test my CA just to check my Salifert test kit and then off we go.....o_O
 

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
There are a variety of two-part dosing items on the market. You can go with red sea products if you want.

I use BRS two-part system for Alk and Ca and their Mg as well (when levels get low). Very simple system. They also have a calculator on their website, to go along with their two-part dosing regime, so that you can easily determine the numbers you need/want.

I see you are in the UK, so I'm not sure if going the BRS route is a simple option (shipping and all). So, this is something that you need to consider.
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the helpful advice. Its been an eventful day but thankfully I'm in a better place than I thought, but still not good.

First, it turns out my Calcium test kit was out of date, so my CA was more like 310. After todays water change and a dose of calcium additive its now at 330.

I also bought a magnesium test kit, this is at 1155.

SO, I need to work on these now slowly with water changes and additives until I reach normal levels (430CA, 1310Mg).

The additives I could get in the end were Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium and Magnesium. These seem to get quite good reviews? My observation with the Reef Calcium is that when mixed with RO water its quite cloudy which then slightly clouds the tank too for an hour or so.

Also, although I added the Magnesium which should have raised it about 10-20, didn't raise it all?
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
While I'd agree daily water changes are probably the way to go for now, I wonder what Kevin would think of the reef foundation abc+ product. I think it's designed to add a bit of everything in good proportions simply and that seems to be your issue (along with water changes or after water changes I'm not sure).
 

mike1970

Active Member
What salt are you using for water changes? When you start raising your levels you should test ALK. CALC. and MAG. Daily until they are in check. Then you will need to test to see how much of these elements your tank consumes on a daily basis. After this you start dosing them slowly. Go to the reef calculator http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html
To determine how much you will need to dose.
 
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dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
What salt are you using for water changes? When you start raising you levels you should test ALK. CALC. and MAG. Daily until they are in check. Then you will need to test to see how much of these elements your tank consumes on a daily basis. After this you start dosing them slowly. Go to the reef calculator http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html
To determine how much you will need to dose.
Thanks Mike, that's just the calculator I have discovered today, really helpful :).

I am watching all three parameters and dosing, Magnesium, Buffer, Calcium in that order with plenty of time in between them all. So in summary currently;

Mg = 1155
KH = 8.5
CA = 340

I've just been reading about Epsom Salts to raise Mg and wondered if I would be better using this;

http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Epsom-Salts-B-P--200g_1209183/

Not sure though?
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Forgot to say about salt, for the last couple of years I've used Instant Ocean, 4 weeks ago though I change to H2Ocean.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I must say that the previous posters to the original post put up a lot of information, but it is very incomplete. When you have a parameter issue, you need to do a few things before you start using any additives. You want to correct the issue, not turn a problem into a disaster.

Here is how the problem should be approached -

First, and most important, how is the livestock looking? If it's all doing well, you may not even have a problem, even though the parameters don't seem to be correct.

Next, you want to diagnose the problem. There are a lot of places where you can go wrong.

Make sure your SG is correct. If it's even a little high or low, it will skew all the other readings for calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium.

Make sure your magnesium level is correct. If that isn't right, it's almost impossible to maintain the calcium -- alkalinity balance in the water.

If you get reading that are way off like your currently measuring, you need them double checked. Have your LFS or a friend test your water. Some test kits just don't work very well, other times they go bad over time. That test kit you just brought home from your LFS could have been sitting on the shelf in the store for years.

Now that you know your test kits are good, and your test results correct, you want to test the water change water, before you mix your salt with it and after. The water before you mix your salt with it should be close to 0 for all parameters, if your using RO/DI water. After you mix the water, get the SG correct and have let it set for a few hours, test it. The results should be fairly close to normal. If not, you have a problem with your salt. You may want to replace your salt or switch brands. Salt loves to absorb water from air, and it does have a shelf life also. Salt should pour freely. if it's all clumped up, it's gone bad.

Once the new water is ok, you can use it for water changes. You will need to make several large water changes to get the parameters back up.

If you make the water change and the levels start to quickly drop, look for low magnesium. See above. Also look for prior use of various buffers for pH. Over use of them can really create a problem.

Once you have all the above correct, you can now start to use additived to adjust Calcium and alkalinity. You can also adjust pH, but don't try and be a fanatic here. Many other factors can effect pH.

This should get you started. To put it simple, first you need to diagnose the problem, and then treat the specific problem.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Thanks DaveK, your post makes a lot of sense.

Its a dilemma, yes, my tank looks OK but now I know of a potential problem looming based on these parameters, I feel I should try and do something to improve things.

Using my new test kits I've tested a 25L bucket of H2Ocean. This measures;

SG 1.025
Mg 1310
CA 420
KH 11

These seem quite normal? But, as mentioned earlier, I've only used H2Ocean for about 4 weeks, before that it was months of Instant Ocean with no additives whatsoever.

So it looks from your information that I should monitor the parameters but focus first on getting the Mg sorted, with the help of larger water changes. Also Epsom Salts?
 

pablomay28

Well-Known Member
Is it time to improve parameters in my C130?

I really, really, really, don't want to chase numbers though! I want a maintenance regime that is sustainable through times of "distractions" away from my reef tank. I've said this before in other posts and that additives can do more harm than good if your not careful! BUT......

Now I've gone from a 24g Nano Cube to the C130 and trying to get my corals to thrive and grow more, maybe I need to stop relying on just water changes?!

For example, over the weeks I've been looking at KH and Calcium. If I do nothing between my water changes (H2Ocean) I get;

Calcium dropping from 280 to 230
KH dropping from 9 to 5

Although I don't currently measure Magnesium (yet!), I'm sure this will be dropping similarly.

SO, the big question is, is it now time to join the Red Sea Foundation "club" and start using the "A" and "C" additives? (I already use Salifert's KH & PH buffer to help KH).

Recommendations would be appreciated on this. Am I going down the right route with Reef Foundation or is there an easier product?

I have a RSM 250 and I dose with the BRS 2 part. I got a icecap doser from marine depot for $90 and set it to dose 3ml/hr of Calcium and i dose the alk throgh my ato. I use reef crystals.
Ca 420
Mg 1400
Alk 9.5
SG 1.026
Ph 8.24
 
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DaveK

Well-Known Member
Thanks DaveK, your post makes a lot of sense.

Its a dilemma, yes, my tank looks OK but now I know of a potential problem looming based on these parameters, I feel I should try and do something to improve things.

Using my new test kits I've tested a 25L bucket of H2Ocean. This measures;

SG 1.025
Mg 1310
CA 420
KH 11

These seem quite normal? But, as mentioned earlier, I've only used H2Ocean for about 4 weeks, before that it was months of Instant Ocean with no additives whatsoever.

So it looks from your information that I should monitor the parameters but focus first on getting the Mg sorted, with the help of larger water changes. Also Epsom Salts?

If the tank ;looks ok, don't panic over the readings. Remember it's likely been at those levels for some time.

The new water looks good, so water changes alone should fix the problem, but you might want to build up the levels to the new water as you go along.

If your building up magnesium, epson salt (magnesium sulfate) alone can be used but I feel it's not the best choice since your picking up all that sulfate. I prefer magnesium chloride or a mix of both salts, but plenty of people use magnesium sulfate alone and have no issues. Both additives are about the same price, so that's not a factor. You usually only need to supplement magnesium once and awhile compared to calcium and alkalinity, so get the smaller quantities.
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
A week on now and my parameters are virtually normal again;

SG 1.025
Mg 1335
CA 425
KH 8.6

I achieved this steadily over the week, primarily through water changes and with some help from additives.

As was suggested above I tackled Magnesium over the first part of the week using Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesium, raising on average 50 each day. Once that was right I then focused on Calcium using Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium over the latter part of the week, raising on average 25 a day. KH has been well behaved and didn't need touching.

Hoping now for things to settle down and will have to see what additional "maintenance" calcium and KH supplements I'm going to need when my weekly water change gets back to normal :)

Thanks for all the help posted in this thread, it has really helped me.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
Wow, that's some journey you've been on the last week or two mate and similar to my troubles with levels.

I'm still battling low mag and KH levels and have been since the beginning. Mag is on its way up nicely and not far off now, but major swings with kh - although I'm hoping that once mag is ok, this will calm down a bit. Calcium seems bang on, although I'm not chasing numbers...just want them with the accepted range lol.

I've been using the Seachem stuff and so far so good. Looking around the tank and it's inhabitants, they all seem to be doing really well and look healthy.

Really useful info from @DaveK as usual.
 
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