Tank upgrade

[Reef6789]

my clowns are outgrowing their 10 gallon tank quickly. I am wanting to set up a new community reef for them. I wanting suggestions for size. The following list is fish I would love to keep. Please not I will not be keeping all of them.
Clownfish ( this is a must)
Damselfish
Flame or any dwarf angel
Cardinal fish
I will have these inverts in the tank as well
Blue leg hermit crabs
Emerald crabs
Snails
Rock flower anemone

So what size tank would be good and are there any suggestions for type or brand. I would like to keep the pricing as low as possible

 

[Pat24601]

my clowns are outgrowing their 10 gallon tank quickly. I am wanting to set up a new community reef for them. I wanting suggestions for size. The following list is fish I would love to keep. Please not I will not be keeping all of them.
Clownfish ( this is a must)
Damselfish
Flame or any dwarf angel
Cardinal fish
I will have these inverts in the tank as well
Blue leg hermit crabs
Emerald crabs
Snails
Rock flower anemone

So what size tank would be good and are there any suggestions for type or brand. I would like to keep the pricing as low as possible

This is such a personal decision based on all sorts of variables, but I think my RSM 250 (65 gallon) is a great size. Not too big and not too small. It’s also pretty close to the minimum size you want for fish like a flame angel.

I think Red Sea was great, but I hate how they’ve gone open top and rimless. If you don’t, their new models can be for you.

If you don’t want to go that big, 32ish gallon seems to be a very popular size (e.g. biocube) and could handle the fish you mention except the flame.

 

[Reef6789]

This is such a personal decision based on all sorts of variables, but I think my RSM 250 (65 gallon) is a great size. Not too big and not too small. It’s also pretty close to the minimum size you want for fish like a flame angel.

I think Red Sea was great, but I hate how they’ve gone open top and rimless. If you don’t, their new models can be for you.

If you don’t want to go that big, 32ish gallon seems to be a very popular size (e.g. biocube) and could handle the fish you mention except the flame.

This is such a personal decision based on all sorts of variables, but I think my RSM 250 (65 gallon) is a great size. Not too big and not too small. It’s also pretty close to the minimum size you want for fish like a flame angel.

I think Red Sea was great, but I hate how they’ve gone open top and rimless. If you don’t, their new models can be for you.

If you don’t want to go that big, 32ish gallon seems to be a very popular size (e.g. biocube) and could handle the fish you mention except the flame.

Are there any types of dwarf angels I could keep in a smaller tank.

 

[DaveK]

Since you want a flame angel, the RSM 250 recommended by @Pat24601 or s similar size tank would be the way to go. If you don't like Red Sea for one reason or another, a standard 70 gal tank would work well. It's got the same frontal area as a 55 gal tank, but is 18 inches wide.

If you look around, you can usually find a lot of RSM 130's on the used market. Plenty of people got them as an entry level tank, and quickly outgrew it. If your going to choose something like this, make sure it will meet your long term needs.

We have already been through dwarf angles in smaller tanks. The advice isn't going to change.

As for damsels, I recommend you leave them out unless all you want are damsels. As they mature they tend to get very aggressive, especially in smaller tanks.

Rock flower anemones are an excellent choice, but don't expect clowns to host in them. The anemones are just not that big.

Two very important points.

Don't get "married" to the fish you want to keep. You'll find plenty of other highly desirable fish out there. It's highly likely you don't even know some of them that exist in the aquarium trade. I come across stuff I have never seen even now.

If you going to have a smaller tank, choose livestock that has a reasonable chance of working out. Your starting from scratch. It's not like you already have all the fish and are stuck with them.

 

[Pat24601]

Are there any types of dwarf angels I could keep in a smaller tank.

Here’s my whole secret to how I know what size tank is considered acceptable.

I look at liveaquaria.

It says that the minimum size for any dwarf angel is 55 gallon.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/category...15+16&r=3166&s=ts&start=1&page_num=1&count=19

Now, ultimately, it’s your tank. You can do whatever you want and liveaquaria is not the Bible. Other sites will disagree with their sizing in either direction.

But, I personally tend to follow their advice reasonably closely. I absolutely push the limits on fish size sometimes, but usually not too far and I do it knowing I’m doing it and what the possible consequences are.

 

[Pat24601]

Since you want a flame angel, the RSM 250 recommended by @Pat24601 or s similar size tank would be the way to go. If you don't like Red Sea for one reason or another, a standard 70 gal tank would work well. It's got the same frontal area as a 55 gal tank, but is 18 inches wide.

If you look around, you can usually find a lot of RSM 130's on the used market. Plenty of people got them as an entry level tank, and quickly outgrew it. If your going to choose something like this, make sure it will meet your long term needs.

We have already been through dwarf angles in smaller tanks. The advice isn't going to change.

As for damsels, I recommend you leave them out unless all you want are damsels. As they mature they tend to get very aggressive, especially in smaller tanks.

Rock flower anemones are an excellent choice, but don't expect clowns to host in them. The anemones are just not that big.

Two very important points.

Don't get "married" to the fish you want to keep. You'll find plenty of other highly desirable fish out there. It's highly likely you don't even know some of them that exist in the aquarium trade. I come across stuff I have never seen even now.

If you going to have a smaller tank, choose livestock that has a reasonable chance of working out. Your starting from scratch. It's not like you already have all the fish and are stuck with them.

Great advice as always. I was thinking that about damsels. I’m not a big fan of them.

 

[Reef6789]

Ok here is my plan. I will set up the biggest tank I can fit in my house. Then I will search for inverts and fish. I am looking used RSM tanks for sale in my area . I will keep you posted.

 

[Pat24601]

Ok here is my plan. I will set up the biggest tank I can fit in my house. Then I will search for inverts and fish. I am looking used RSM tanks for sale in my area . I will keep you posted.

Sounds good,

Certainly don’t let us talk you into something you don’t want to do. Ultimately, it’s your tank and you have lots of decision criteria we can’t possibly know.

 

[DaveK]

Ok here is my plan. I will set up the biggest tank I can fit in my house. Then I will search for inverts and fish. I am looking used RSM tanks for sale in my area . I will keep you posted.

Before you do that figure out what your trying to do with the tank. Even very small nano tanks can be real gems, but with each tanks size there are limitations as to what you can do. This even applies to very large tanks. In a rally large tank small fish can almost disappear.

Just to give you some idea, I once had a FW planted tank with killiefish in it. Because the fish tended to hide or just barely come out, it often looked like the tank had no fish in it. Several smaller tanks would have shown off the fish a lot better.

 

[Reef6789]

Before you do that figure out what your trying to do with the tank. Even very small nano tanks can be real gems, but with each tanks size there are limitations as to what you can do. This even applies to very large tanks. In a rally large tank small fish can almost disappear.

Just to give you some idea, I once had a FW planted tank with killiefish in it. Because the fish tended to hide or just barely come out, it often looked like the tank had no fish in it. Several smaller tanks would have shown off the fish a lot better.

I am hoping to do a shallow minimulist tank. I would have a few corals depending on the size of the tank. For fish probably just my clowns and one other fish. The RFA I have in my 10 gallon would be in this tank as well as a couple of blue leg hermit crabs and assorted crabs. Thanks I really think this is going to be a nice tank. DaveK you made me look at things from a different, better perspective.

 

[Reef6789]

Could someone supply a link for a 60 gallon rsm tank. I can be new or used. I want to get an idea for pricing.

 

[Squatch XXL]

Larger volumes of water require larger water changes. I would start with this as a point to find out your "best" sized tank. For my purposes, I found a 40 breeder to be a great size for many different sized critters, certainly your list. It has great surface area, and is a great place to start with a "big" look while still being affordable. Water changes would range from 20-40+ gallons/month depending on need.

Of all the tanks 36" long and shorter, the 40 breeder is hands down the best. After that it is up for debate, but 29g & 38g really are spectacular as well for more of a "display" than the 40.

Funny this was here, because I am in the process of downgrading myself to keep the "system" alive through a move.

I have a few 10g, 20g (long & tall), 38 & 40b.....

@DaveK Pointed out the most obvious difference of the 55g & 75g. I cannot stand the dimensions of the 55. Not at all. It is a very vertical space, and requires a specific build. The 75 is wider, and seems to be easier on the eye. When it comes to 48" models, don't bother with the 55. 75 would make a good room divider....55 do work great, but it could depend on space. They are cheap when they are on sale, that is for sure.

There does not seem to be much a cost difference between 36" & 48". Bulbs and fixtures are usually about the same in price...Usually the 48" are a bit more....There is the occasional circumstance where the 36" model is absurd expensive because of "specialized parts". (ballasts out of stock).

Bigger volumes require $$$$$$$ lights, $$$$$$ filters, salt mix and time. Larger surface area is more important than gallons, though both are important.

I am hoping to do a shallow minimulist tank. I would have a few corals depending on the size of the tank.

40 breeder's sell for $40 at petco on sale. They are a dirt cheap entry-way into medium-larger systems as your collection grows. It takes a lot to fill a 40, and a long time to grow out of.

 

[DaveK]

Could someone supply a link for a 60 gallon rsm tank. I can be new or used. I want to get an idea for pricing.

Pricing for used equipment is all over the place and depends upon exactly what is included and the condition of the equipment.

New equipment depends upon the exact options selected. Here is a link to the typical Red Sea systems being sold by one seller -
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/sumps-tanks-refugiums/tanks/red-sea-complete-aquariums.html

Even there prices will vary a lot because each system comes with different features. Lighting and filtration are what usually makes up the price variations. As always shop around you sometimes find better prices.

 

[Pat24601]

Larger volumes of water require larger water changes. I would start with this as a point to find out your "best" sized tank. For my purposes, I found a 40 breeder to be a great size for many different sized critters, certainly your list. It has great surface area, and is a great place to start with a "big" look while still being affordable. Water changes would range from 20-40+ gallons/month depending on need.

Of all the tanks 36" long and shorter, the 40 breeder is hands down the best. After that it is up for debate, but 29g & 38g really are spectacular as well for more of a "display" than the 40.

Funny this was here, because I am in the process of downgrading myself to keep the "system" alive through a move.

I have a few 10g, 20g (long & tall), 38 & 40b.....

@DaveK Pointed out the most obvious difference of the 55g & 75g. I cannot stand the dimensions of the 55. Not at all. It is a very vertical space, and requires a specific build. The 75 is wider, and seems to be easier on the eye. When it comes to 48" models, don't bother with the 55. 75 would make a good room divider....55 do work great, but it could depend on space. They are cheap when they are on sale, that is for sure.

There does not seem to be much a cost difference between 36" & 48". Bulbs and fixtures are usually about the same in price...Usually the 48" are a bit more....There is the occasional circumstance where the 36" model is absurd expensive because of "specialized parts". (ballasts out of stock).

Bigger volumes require $$$$$$$ lights, $$$$$$ filters, salt mix and time. Larger surface area is more important than gallons, though both are important.



40 breeder's sell for $40 at petco on sale. They are a dirt cheap entry-way into medium-larger systems as your collection grows. It takes a lot to fill a 40, and a long time to grow out of.

Given how @Reef6789 is talking, I think this sounds like great advice. I think the RSM 250 I suggested earlier in this thread is probably too big and too expensive (both the tank itself and all you need to buy for it) for your needs.

As I said, size is such a personal choice because there are so many factors.

But, a 40 breeder might be a great size.

 

[Pat24601]

Pricing for used equipment is all over the place and depends upon exactly what is included and the condition of the equipment.

New equipment depends upon the exact options selected. Here is a link to the typical Red Sea systems being sold by one seller -
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/sumps-tanks-refugiums/tanks/red-sea-complete-aquariums.html

Even there prices will vary a lot because each system comes with different features. Lighting and filtration are what usually makes up the price variations. As always shop around you sometimes find better prices.

Plus, when it comes to used tanks, it’s not really an efficient market. It’s just whatever someone hopes to get and someone else is willing to pay on a given day. With RSM tanks I’ve seen what appears to be virtually the same 250 go for $500 - $1,000 (all equipment included) and it probably varies a lot more than that.

 

[Squatch XXL]

Plus, when it comes to used tanks, it’s not really an efficient market.

I would rather buy a new bio cube than take a chance on a used RSM. There are many variations of models, and without being somewhat educated on the differences...I could buy a used RSM tomorrow, and see spending $300+ just to get it running. My luck, it would leak.