Silver97's Official tank chronicle

silver97

Active Member
@Oxylebius thats great to know, don't want to spend money on one if its not worth it.

So I forgot to check my levels yesterday, checked them today and I saw that my nitrates were running pretty high
pH: 7.8
salinity: 1.025-1.026 (right in between)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 40 ppm
They were at 20 last time I checked 2 weeks ago, so something must have happened to get them to spike that much. I am going to be taking some serious steps in the next few weeks to get them down. But I have some quick questions first.
Would adding the fish and urchin have anything to do with it? Granted I know that would add extra waste to the equation, which technically would raise them, but in that short of a time? Keep in mind 3 days since adding them
How often could I do water changes? I know this is the primary way to get rid of them along with controlling how much I feed (which I am also reducing greatly) but I don't want to throw the biological filter out of whack and kill everything by doing them too frequently.

Also a big thing I have been seriously thinking about is upgrading to a sump/fuge (finally) and getting all that comes with it. I have looked at a few different websites and seen the basics of how to build one, although I'm still confused (this is going to sound so stupid) as to how the water is exchanged between the 2 tanks. I get that there is drilling involved in some cases, but drilling into my filled and fully stocked tank is going to be pretty difficult in my opinion.
This one website I was looking at had some pretty good looking kits for one, I don't want it to all be DIY, so this seemed like the next best thing.
http://oceanboxdesigns.com/product/dlux-sump-kit-for-20-gallon-long-aquarium-luxy/
They said the 20 gal long(which that link goes to) is for tanks up to 55 gal, which is perfect for my 40b. Only problem is where my tank is right now I definitely don't have the room for a 20 gallon tank. I do have room for a 10 gallon, which they also have a kit for, but they recommend that for only up to 30 gal. And I also have a few extra 10 gal tanks laying around I could clean out and get ready for a kit conversion. Haven't even looked at skimmers yet, will get there soon enough. Do you guys think it would be fine with a 10 gallon sump/fuge? granted it wouldn't be optimal (possibly) but I bet you could all agree it's better than my canister filter.
Any help on navigating this sump conversion would be appreciated greatly, because I am lost.
 

StirCrayzy

Well-Known Member
A sump is probably the best addition you can make, getting the equipment out of sight, and adding water volume.
. A 20 g tall tank would probably fit well under your tank, and would be much better than a 10g. I have one in my 36X18 stand with room to spare.
LifeReef has some of the best overflows you can find, but you need to first decide on a return pump. It's flow rate will determine the overflow size required.
Tanks looking good, I just stumbled on your thread and read up. :thumbs-up:
 

silver97

Active Member
I did not know that they made 20 gallon tall! That may be the best thing. Other thing that I was thinking, a regular 20 gallon tank may fit in the area where the canister filter is. This is just a plain old tank, no tall/long measurements.
See, the way I have my tank set up is a bit unorthodox as far as placement goes. I wanted it in my room, and my parents wouldn't let me put it in the living room or modify any other room to accommodate it. Believe me, I had a way better place to put it but it just didn't work out. So in my room it sits on top of my dresser with all of my clothes in it. It also partially hangs onto another cabinet I had so it evenly distributed the weight. This cabinet holds my canister filter and my other aquarium supplies.
So to fit it really, I was thinking of 3 ways.
Set it in the area where my canister filter is, which is preferred because it is below the tank. I would do this if I could find the 20 gal tank that is not tall/long.
OR
An extreme alternative, take out the drawers of my dresser and fit it under there.
OR
look at a 20 gal tall and see how I could fit it in the cabinet. I already cut a hole for the filter tubes, so cutting a bigger one out doesn't necessarily sound like that big of a deal (to me at least, my parents probably don't want that but if it works it works)
I think I'll do some more research this week and compare prices and different styles to see if this could work. I really hope I don't have to do any major construction or moving, but I think I can work it out.

@StirCrayzy that website was pricey! But helpful. Could you possibly post a pic of what yours looks like with the 20 tall? Or are there pics on your chronicle I could look at?
 

StirCrayzy

Well-Known Member
Guess I overlooked what the tank was sitting on... A 20g tall is 24X12X16h, good capacity on a small footprint.
I drilled my tank but lots of friends around town, and online here use LifeReef, and swear by them. Others will probably chime in to attest to the style, but basically they never lose siphon once primed, meaning they will deliver water out of the tank to the sump without the Display tank overflowing.

This is the page I started building my sump.http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/joshs-superreef-65.78992/page-2#post-1104279
 

silver97

Active Member
Ok so some clarification to what I said before, I now see what your 20 gal tall looks like and thats the shape I was describing as the 'bigger version of a 10 gal'. So we were on the same page size wise, but I was just being dumb by not looking up pictures of what the tank looks like haha
@StirCrayzy I now think I need the same or a similar kind of sump set up you have. I would want to modify mine a bit to set up areas for a media rack possibly, only because I didn't see any in yours. Either way I'm going to look some designs over this week and do a rough plan of what I would need to buy and price everything out.
This is going to take a while. But it will be a good summer project. I'm really looking forward to it!
 

silver97

Active Member
So I did a bit more research today and while I was looking at the different designs, I was a bit shocked at how expensive this whole thing was going to be. Then I thought of one way to cut the entire price down a little bit. Would it be advisable to use a fish safe 20 gallon plastic bin? It would do the same thing as any other container, and if I had to drill it would be way easier. I could probably find a really good one at Lowe's or Home Depot for under $10 instead of spending almost $40 on another glass tank or more on acrylic. I might have a bit more variance on size also, so I might be able to fit it in a bit easier.
Also found this great website explaining the basics and fundamentals, which also had links to other great sites
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html
Throwing this link here for my use and anyone else that's trying to do similar
 

silver97

Active Member
Oh believe me, I know about that sale. That's how i got my 40B. It's just I've never seen the 20 talls at a Petco near me before. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough. If they are there I'll definitely take advantage of that. So far I have only seen 20 long. I was just thinking outside of the box on the plastic bin. I did bit more digging and saw a couple of people do use them, so that will be my backup plan if I can't get that at Petco.
 

silver97

Active Member
Just checked on Petco's website, and the last $1 per gallon sale ended in January. I couldn't find anything on when the next one will be, but considering they had one in June of last year (when I got my 40B) I figure they will have another around that time again.That works for me, gives me more time to assess what I need and how much money I need to save.
Nitrate levels have gone down a good bit. Nothing has died except for a turbo snail, and I'm not even sure why it died. It was one of the first snails I bought, so maybe it just got too old. The zombie snails were all over it this morning along with the hermit crab. I'm sure bristleworms will be all over it tonight if they aren't already.
The blue tux urchin is becoming one of my favorite things to watch in the tank. It is so cool to see it's path of destruction in terms of how much coraline algae has been eaten. It practically cleared the visible side of this one rock, but kept its distance from the zoa colony growing on the same rock. It is having such a field day. It has picked up a bunch of baby ceriths for camo and i think all of them are alive! Too funny
It doesn't seem to be eating any hair algae though....but at this point I haven't noticed any dramatic growth from it, so maybe the GFO is working well? Either way in the next few months it will be taken care of, I don't mind it right now.
A little concern from my 6 line wrasse. I have noticed it get into fights with each of my fish. They were quick fights and over in less than 5 seconds, but it concerned me a little bit. I think they are still trying to put him in his place, and i hope that's it, but I'm not going to think too much of it unless I see major fin damage on any fish, which I don't see any on any of them now.
I was a bit sidetracked this weekend with Easter, and I'm getting busier with school and work so I don't have much time to study and compare sump things, but I'll get around to it eventually.

One thing I was wondering about was in the refugium part, do I have to add a small sandbed and rocks? My thinking on it was you just had to throw a ball of chaeto in there, put a light on it and get rid of the excess chaeto when it gets out of hand. I've seen people adding hermit crabs and snails to theres too, basically making it a mini clean up crew tank. Can I do one or the other? Is it better to make it a mini tank? or straight chaeto? If I had to throw live rock in there I think I would put in my one with the dragons breath algae on it. Makes sense.
 

silver97

Active Member
OK, so I did some more research and found out a couple of problems and answers to my other questions.
The 20 gallon tall will NOT fit in the stand that I want it to go in. Meaning it also won't fit on top. I did all the measurements and it just wont work. I have deducted a few more ideas that will work, but not without some effort.
Idea #1
HOB skimmer and 10 gal refugium sitting next to tank.
This is the most practical right now, I know a 10 gal would fit on the top of the stand because I kept a 10 gal freshwater tank on there years ago. Actually it would end up being that same tank, still have it. I could easily just add an overflow inside the tank and set everything else up with PVC plumbing. I know 10 gallons won't do much, but it's better than nothing. And the hang on skimmer is going to go wherever it fits. I could also fit the heater in here, get it out of the main tank. I would probably paint the side facing the tank black to prevent the light form entering either tank from the other one.
OR
Idea #2
I take out the drawers of my dresser and do a 20 gal long sump/fuge.
This is most likely not going to happen, but I have to consider everything. This would allow me to fit a better skimmer in, a refugium and whatever other media and equipment I need. It would require me to move my clothes (which I could easily do) and turn the bottom of my dresser into a full on aquarium stand. I might need to reinforce it with a wooden stand built underneath the entire thing. I would do this anyway to make a little stand for the sump to fit on, but I'm talking reinforce the entire stand just for stability and comfort in the fact that it won't budge. My parents will ultimately decide if this will be allowed to happen. And if so, GREAT! If not, 2 other ideas remain.
And the most liked but riskiest idea of them all..
Idea #3
HOB refugium with HOB skimmer.
The CPR Aquafuge 2 looks to be very promising. I would still need a HOB skimmer, but the refugium is pretty spacious. Here's the problem:
The large size, which is ideal for me, is 25 in L x 4.5 in W x 12 in H. It can hold 4.7 gallons of water. The length and height are not a problem, my tank has inches to spare when it comes to those. The width is the problem, because if I am to put it on the back of my tank, I would need to move my tank out another inch and a half or so. This is a problem, because how the heck am I supposed to move my enormous tank even an inch weighing however many hundreds of pounds it is?
No, going to the medium size won't fix the problem either because all the sizes are 4.5 in wide. I could hide my heater in here. Worth a shot if I could find a way to move the tank.

Any problems you guys can see? I still haven't priced it out, but I'm probably going to be saving for this change for a few months. And yes, this would replace my Fluval canister filter, I would just use the media bags already bought with it and fit them where I could. Which do you think would be most effective/practical?
 

silver97

Active Member
@nanoreefing4fun thanks for the heads up, but I still haven't figured out which design to go with, so I can not utilize this.
Another thing I forgot to add about Idea #3 on my last post, the medium size would fit on the side of my tank, but it would hang off about an inch. I think it can hold 3.7 gallons or something like that? Either way I'm thinking of just going with the 10 gallon refugium. It would be easier for me and still be better than my current canister filter. Plus more volume than either of the HOB refugiums.

Thinking of substrate, I keep seeing back and forth arguments about a deep sand bed, bare bottom or an inch of miracle mud all over the internet. I think I would steer away from bare bottom because I would like to put some sort of macro algae that takes root like caulerpa or graciliera, and possibly a few mangroves just because they are cool (And yes I know they dont do much unless there are like 1000 of them, but if I have the room why not?)

Miracle mud (or any kind of refugium mud for that matter) seems too good to be true. Apparently after a short time you don't need a skimmer? I think I'd still buy one to be safe considering my tank has never had one, and I dont' want it to crash from lack of filtering. But if it's true, this would keep my cost down to just the plumbing, overflow box and the mud, which might be better. But then you have to replace it after 6 months, and I also saw some people stating you didn't, which I don't think it sounds smart whatsoever to replace it. Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Also, I did a 10% water change today like I have been doing for the past few weeks and now have the nitrates down to 20 ppm. This is a huge improvement from what it was a while ago. Still don't have a way to test phosphate but I can't see any decrease or increase in growth of hair algae, so I'm going to go the patient route due to the fact that this takes time.
 

StirCrayzy

Well-Known Member
Skip the mud and deep sand bed for now, if you want sand, just stick with an inch or two for now. It's safer that way, what your after is volume and rock surface area.
The intent of using a deep sand bed is to complete the nitrogen cycle by increasing anaerobic bacteria habitat. This does work, but it can be difficult to balance this and it's much easier to control nitrates with WC at this stage in your reefing career.
 

silver97

Active Member
Sounds good. I didn't necessarily want to spend another ridiculous amount of money on sand or mud if I don't have to.
At this point I am still leaning near the 10 gallon refugium. Cost wise and size wise it sounds like it is going to be the only thing that works. My parents won't let me move the drawers out for a 20 long, so it's either the 3.7 gallon HOB refugium or separate 10 gal one. Better than nothing.
I also need to start looking at hang on skimmer. Any suggestions for these? I hear there are some very good ones out there I just don't know which one to look at first.
I'm thinking with the 10 gallon I'm going to section off a very small portion so I can fit some media bags in there. Just enough to get my carbon and GFO some space. Then the rest refugium. I don't necessarily think a media rack is needed, just an area I can throw the bags in.
Also not sure if I'm going to keep the light on 24/7 even thought this would be suitable. Might have to build some sort of light shield so I'll be able to sleep at night.
Small tank update
Everything is doing good and living perfectly fine. For whatever reason my sandbed started to grow a bit of cyano again. Not a ridiculous amount like it was before, but it's enough to gives stretches of sand a red tint to them. Don't know why. You think with the zombie snails sifting the sand every day it wouldn't have a chance to settle. Whatever, any nutrient problem will go away in a while anyway with the addition of all the filtration I'm doing.
Corraline algae is growing back considerably fast after being eaten by the blue tux.
 

silver97

Active Member
Tank Update
I was away for the weekend and a few things happened to the tank, none necessarily bad. The hair algae started to grow long again. I do have to mention that I didn't have a chance to change any water beforehand, with school and work getting in the way. I'll probably do one today or tomorrow. I asked my grandfather to feed the tank only once, and he did, but the tank seems to have released a bunch of nutrients because more of the red cyano is growing on the sandbed. I don't know why. Corraline algae and corals are all growing fine. All 4 fish are doing excellent and getting along now, none are harassing each other. The blue tux had so many snails and so much dragons breath algae on it that when I came back I had to look for a good while to find it! And I have even better news on the refugium, or should I say sump now!
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/crystal-cube-18-trigger-systems.html
This is exactly 20 gallons and is perfect for my tank. I will have to do barely any 'construction' , I'll just have to take out a side of the one cabinet and it should fit in perfectly. I'll also have to throw a 4x4 under it to give a little more support to the part on the outside, and yes it might be a little ghetto but it will work. This also gives me room for a good skimmer due to the skimmer designated area. I will have plenty of places to throw my media bags also. I was really glad I saw these because it's not too outrageously expensive and when my tank is ready to be taken down in a few years I will be able to save it for any other small tanks I might have in the future.
But honestly I think this is now the best option for my tank. I just need to look for a good affordable skimmer and an overflow box. Plus a return pump. I'll find these eventually, but all in all I think I could possibly have this all done by the middle or end of July. I'm really excited!
 

silver97

Active Member
Tank Update
I see that after I replaced the GFO the red haze on the sand has disappeared almost completely. So that must mean it's working!
I have done some finalizations on my plan for my sump. I am still going with the Crystal Cube 18 as the main component. For a skimmer I have decided on a Reef Octopus Classic 110S, fits well and has all around great reviews. My return pump I think I will go with a Sicce at around 250-350 gph overturn, probably towards 350 more likely. Overflow box will be one of the ones they sell on Marine Depot, not sure which one yet, but I think the -300 will work.
I emailed a website separately to ask them on their opinions of what equipment would work best with what and this is what I got. I think it sounds like this is going to work great together once its all up and running.
In my refugium I am going to move the one rock from my main tank with the dragon's breath algae on it into the fuge. i will also run a 1 inch sandbed just because. I may move some more rock into there just to get some more bacterial filtration.
In the absence of the one rock from my display tank, I will be buying a big flat rock that I can use as an area to place corals. I have become interested in LPS lately, and seeing that I won't be getting any more with the way my tank is right now I am even more motivated to do this upgrade quickly. I think a couple acans will look cool right there. They're the corals that look coolest to me, but I might look into some frogspawn or torch corals after I get acans.
Another extreme measure I may end up taking to get rid of the hair algae is completely replacing the rocks that are 'infected' with it. I realized the other day that the rocks that have it really bad were the first 3 I got from Petco to seed my tank, the piece of brain coral I got from the beach but sat outside forever, and the barnacles from outside also (although not as bad as any of the rocks). This might be a bit drastic, but if it works I'd be up for it. I could redo the aquascape like I've been wanting to for a while and I think I could make a few more caves and hideaways for the fish. The other 5 rocks barely have any hair algae on them except when they're near one of the infected ones.
This is a last resort, but I might want to do it if I'm going to be buying another flat rock anyway. I plan to have them all cured already if I do so, I don't want the bacteria levels to crash in the tank and kill everything obviously.
 

silver97

Active Member
Potential bad/not so bad problem...
So recently moved my powerhead up a few inches in the tank to increase overall flow and it was directly blasting my xenia. I moved the xenia onto the sandebed because it wasn't growing and I didn't want it to start deteriorating like crazy. It has since opened up a lot more and seems happier, which is good, but then I noticed a few little xenia heads on 2 different rocks. 4 heads were next to where it was before, but the other 3 were almost a foot away. I guess this is how it starts spreading ridiculously, but if it chokes out my hair algae I will be thrilled.
No increase or decrease in hair algae by the way. I may try and find a sea slug or lettuce nudibranch to eat it. I won't go with a sea hare because I'm afraid they will poison the tank, and I don't want that to happen (obviously). But until I get my sump and other upgrades out of the way those will go on the back burner.
I also have a halt in those plans, I have not been getting into work recently, so I am not making any money, and can't afford to buy all the upgrades at once. I am going on vacation soon too, so I will probably not be doing this upgrade until July. This makes me even more mad at my place of employment. I should explain I'm part time, but technically on standby, so if someone calls off or if they have a lot more work than usual I go in, and in the past 3 weeks I have only been in 3 days. I'm sure you could relate to my frustration.
But all the inhabitants are doing well. I have noticed my orange clown get a bit bigger over the last few months. I think when I bought him he must not have been that old, under a year definitely. He is almost the size of my black clown, but smaller, so I think it's definite he is the male. The female still has the smallest bit of orange on her chin, so I'm thinking she is just a few months older than the other but still not an adult yet. It's been like that since I got her in October (?) They are both around 2 inches
The blenny has probably gotten bigger since I got him, hard to judge with them really. He's around 4 inches now
Six line wrasse has not been with me long enough to tell if it has grown. I think its around 1 1/2 -2 inches, so with a possible max size of 3 inches I will try and keep an eye on it.
I am going to change to a pellet food next time I go out to a store, the flake food is running low and I think since it's almost a year old it's a good idea to replace it. I also need to pick up some more vita chem, just ran out today. I honestly have so many things to buy right now and not enough money to get them due to saving up and it's just annoying, the whole situation. With summer starting next week for me I might look for a better job that gives me an actual schedule that is good.
Please send good tank vibes my way-I need them!
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
tumblr_n1glusEUlx1sfgfh0o1_500_zps12841fe5.jpg~original
 

silver97

Active Member
General Update
Everything in the tank is going ok for the meantime I guess, all inhabitants are healthy and happy. Hair algae hasn't increased, but hasn't decreased either.
Corals seem to be doing alright, haven't noticed much growth from them lately except from my gorgonian, which started growing a 3rd branch! I'm actually really starting to like it now, might even buy a few more in the future to start a little forest of them. They don't grow too fast, but I will address this in a few
Looking back on my corals, my zoas have grown a considerable amount since obtaining them. I originally bought 5 frags (around 50 polyps i think), and after a bunch died off due to poor placement, the ones I have now have about 50 polyps each. Well, 2 of them do. The one that I used to have in the back of the tank had started to get overgrown with hair algae, choking them out, so I moved them to the front of the tank. Then I found out that there was this weird slug like thing on the back of them that I am almost positive was irritating them. It looked exactly like the rock that the frag was on, so that must have been the reason I didn't notice it when placing it in the tank originally. Luckily it came off after I pried it off with a toothpick, and I sucked it out of the tank. I also checked the other ones out and didn't see anymore of them, so I think I'm pest free now. I am going to definitely buy a coral dip for any future corals that I buy now. No I didn't get any pictures, sorry
After a few weeks of 10% weekly water changes, the nitrates have gone down dramatically. They now sit under 10, which still needs to be less but is way more healthy than 40. I am still saving for the sump upgrade, and I'm not getting into work enough to make enough money for it, so I don't think I'll be able to do the upgrade till late July, which irritates me beyond belief. I may just buy some of the things now and wait for the other things once I have enough money for them, but it's still all up in the air at this point.
Oh forgot to mention there is the possibility that my family is moving within the next year, so tearing down the tank after all of this would just make me so irked.
Back to the corals not growing too fast, I started looking into other solutions to make them grow faster and saw something that I should have changed a while ago. I use the Instant Ocean salt mix for my water changes, which is great, but I just noticed they make one higher in trace elements for reef tanks, The IO Reef Crystals. Don't ask me how I didn't know about these before (probably just ignorance), but I am going to switch to this version next time I run out of salt. I think if I did an overall boost to the tanks trace elements it might be the catalyst to kickstart some major growth from everything. My blue tux urchin eating my coraline algae made me realize how slow it grows back sometimes, and although it is growing fine, it's not necessarily growing in new spots as much. On the back wall of my tank there isn't much growing, and after almost a year of having the tank I thought I would have a nice patch of the purple stuff to start growing my GSP on. It looks boring just on a rock! Hopefully changing my salt will also help combat the hair algae problem, I've heard somewhere that a few of the trace elements suppress algae growth if their levels are high enough, so maybe this will be better than I thought.
Going to throw some pics up in a bit because I know I'm overdue on showing progress.
 

silver97

Active Member
IMG_0488.JPGHere is a FTS, you can see the amount of hair algae growing everywhere.
Again, I would like to apologize for the quality of some of these pictures, my iPad doesn't have the best camera
IMG_0479.JPG
This is the dragons breath algae. It is growing ridiculously well, the 2 tufts here are all that is growing but are way bigger than the camera can capture
IMG_0482.JPG This is the gorgonian, growing it's third arm on the right. You can also see how big the xenia is in the back. IMG_0480.JPG Radioactive dragon eye zoas. There are at least 50 polyp heads here.
IMG_0483.JPG Blue eyed monster zoas. More than 50 heads hereIMG_0486.JPG
GSP and green mushrooms. Both doing ok stranded in the sandbed
IMG_0487.JPG
The BTA is doing better, still small but it hasn't died yet. I think the change in salt will give it a much needed boost of elements it needs. It still accepts feedings every now and then, I try at least twice a week to feed it.
IMG_0485.JPG There is my bicolor blenny hanging out in his favorite spot in the barnacles.
IMG_0484.JPG
My clowns hanging out together
I couldn't get a pic of my sixline wrasse,he's a bit camera shy. I can sit a few feet away from the tank and watch him swim, but if I get up close he hides a bit. He comes out eventually, so I know he's not completely afraid of me.
I also had a pic of my blue tux urchin with his dragons breath algae/snail shell camo on, but it wouldnt load for some reason. Going to try again in a few
 
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