Sick clownfish, maybe ich!?

[Jillian Berra]

Please someone give me directions on how to save the little guy! I have a 17 gallon bio cube

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

the best advise on RS... best of luck and Welcome to RS !

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/...st-advice-on-ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.84013/

 

[Pat24601]

@nanoreefing4fun, I just noticed most of the nested links on Lee’s articles are broken links. I’m not sure how long that’s been true. The links in the one you posted are fine, but all of the ones that those link too are broken. For example, in the link I have below as my favorite one, none of the links in it work. Maybe they haven’t for a long time. I dunno.

Probably nothing we can do, but I thought I’d mention it.

Anyway, I’m terrible at identifying fish diseases. You posted a great pic, but since I haven’t had a lot of exposure to fish diseases, I can’t tell the difference between Ich and diseases that look kinda like it. Hopefully one of our more experienced hands can chime in.

If it is Ich, the link @nanoreefing4fun posted is my favorite. It’s literally some of the best information on the internet on Marine Ich. In particular, I personally like this one. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/marine-ich-myths-and-facts.23132/

The bottom line is to treat a fish with Ich you need to remove it from the tank to a hospital tank and treat it one of 3 ways (1) hyposalinity, (2) copper, or (3) tank transfer. All of those are involved so if you do that read up a lot and ask any questions you have.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

I see that now Pat... the content of Lee's original post all all there & that's great - looks like some of the links in his post broke when we RS converted to XenForo database

But the good news, it looks like I can fix them !

I changed these two... example below from part of one you referenced...

Will be some work... but I can get there


Treatments:

1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Hard to control pH and water quality during treatment. This is the least stressful treatment for the fish. See: A Hyposalinity Treatment Process

2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. Can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress. The fish may stop eating. See end of this post for other things that can go wrong. See:

Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Our Fish Diseases - Treatments forum (link below... has all of Lee's post)

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?forums/fish-diseases-treatments.155/

 

[Uncle99]

That is absolutely Ick
He must come out into a QT for one of the above treatments.
Your tank must remain fish less for 72 days.

Hypo will work on this fish, TTM is what many do these days to lessen stress. Cupramine I have used on this same species, worked great, but you have to make sure you do not overdose that will kill him

 

[Pat24601]

I see that now Pat... the content of Lee's original post all all there & that's great - looks like some of the links in his post broke when we RS converted to XenForo database

But the good news, it looks like I can fix them !

I changed these two... example below from part of one you referenced...

Will be some work... but I can get there


Treatments:

1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Hard to control pH and water quality during treatment. This is the least stressful treatment for the fish. See: A Hyposalinity Treatment Process

2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. Can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress. The fish may stop eating. See end of this post for other things that can go wrong. See:

Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems

I see it. Looks great! Whether or not it’s worth it is another question.

I truly believe that’s the best source for Marine Ich treatment on the internet.

 

[DaveK]

The fish definatly has an ich infection, but it also looks like it's got Brooklynella, also known as clowfish disease.Not the areas around the dorsal fin and in front of it. Treatment for this disease is done by using formalin. Hyposalinity will also help.

This fish is in very bad shape, and it will be tough to save but sometimes you get lucky and the fish names a remarkable recovery.

 

[Pat24601]

Now that two of our forum experts, @Uncle99 and @DaveK have confirmed the diagnosis, let me emphasize a point @Uncle99 said.

If your clown fish has Marine Ich, that means your entire tank has Marine Ich.

I assume this clown is your only fish, but if not you need to consider all the other fish in your tank as having it as well.

Finally, even if your clown doesn’t make it, your tank should be left without fish for about 72 days as @Uncle99 said. Otherwise, any fish you put in could get Ich as well and you will be right back where you started.

I recently dealt with a Marine Ich outbreak myself. While staring at an empty tank for 10 weeks isn’t fun, it’s a lot more fun than infecting more fish and having to deal with that.

 

[ssagar]

Now that two of our forum experts, @Uncle99 and @DaveK have confirmed the diagnosis, let me emphasize a point @Uncle99 said.

If your clown fish has Marine Ich, that means your entire tank has Marine Ich.

I assume this clown is your only fish, but if not you need to consider all the other fish in your tank as having it as well.

Finally, even if your clown doesn’t make it, your tank should be left without fish for about 72 days as @Uncle99 said. Otherwise, any fish you put in could get Ich as well and you will be right back where you started.

I recently dealt with a Marine Ich outbreak myself. While staring at an empty tank for 10 weeks isn’t fun, it’s a lot more fun than infecting more fish and having to deal with that.

I don't intend to hack this post but IMO I have some relevant questions. if the entire tank including the inhabitants needs to be treated and since the tank doesn't seems to have corals why can't we just suggest hyposalinity in the tank itself, hopefully by doing this the tank doesn't have to be fishless for 72 days?????

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

 

[DaveK]

The reason you should not use hyposalinity or most other meds in a SW system is that you will also kill all the good bacteria and other life in the system. This can include your clean up crew. This mass die off is something you don't want, and once you take care of the disease, you have the additional problem of rebuilding that bacteria base you need for biological filtration.

That being said, people have done it. However, it's certainly not the best idea.

 

[Pat24601]

I don't intend to hack this post but IMO I have some relevant questions. if the entire tank including the inhabitants needs to be treated and since the tank doesn't seems to have corals why can't we just suggest hyposalinity in the tank itself, hopefully by doing this the tank doesn't have to be fishless for 72 days?????

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

That’s a complicated question, but a good one. My answer below isn’t 100% correct technically speaking, but I’m trying to keep things short and simple.

The reason for leaving the tank empty for 72 days is because of the life cycle of Marine Ich. When the parasite drops off a fish, it becomes a cyst. In studies 72 days is the longest that a cyst has lasted before breaking free and attaching to a fish.

None of the three proven effective methods (1) hypo, (2) copper, or (3) tank transfer actually attack the parasite in its cyst stage. Copper and hypo attack it in its free swimming stage (after it leaves the cyst and before it attaches to a fish) and tank transfer basically outruns the process.

So, if you were going to treat in a tank (and people have even though it’s not a well studied thing to do) you have to treat for as long as cysts would of be in the tank. I’m not sure how long that is because it’s not a standard.

Maybe the full 72 days to be safe, although hypos recommended process of 4 weeks after you see the last spot might be/is probably (?) enough. I’ve also seen post that say after 30 days of copper the cysts are genetically damaged enough to no longer be a threat, but I personally haven’t seen the studies that support that. Maybe they are out there and I missed them.

Also, if you use copper in your display tank it’s probably wise to assume it won’t be a safe environment for corals later as the copper can leach back in the water.

That’s a longish answer. The shorter one is that’s it’s not impossible, but it’s not recommend or well studied and I’d read whatever you can on it by the people who have done it to see what you think of it.

EDIT: Also what @DaveK said. Extremely important point about die off and the bio filter. I can’t believe I forgot to mention it. It’s probably the biggest problem when talking about hypo.