Red and Hair Algae taking over...slowly...

[JT101]

Hello! It's been a while

Help!!

My reef tank is slowly being overtaken by hair algae and cyano.

My AquaPod 24 was established in June 2007. For almost 3 years now I’ve had basically the same inhabitants: a hawkfish, a pair of oscellaris clowns, and a small blue tang (yes, it is ONLY about 2” long and has stayed that way for almost 3 years). As far as inverts go I have a few small green ricordias, a nice paly rock, a medium finger leather, several button polyps and green star polyps.

I have always had a LITTLE cyano here and there but always dealt with it by vacuuming it off the substrate during weekly 33% water changes. However, about 6 months ago it started getting worse. Then the hair algae came!! I change my bulbs every 6 months (2 36W actinic PCs and 2 36W 10,000K daylights). At on point a local LFS told me to put in 100% actinic, which I did. This really made a huge difference, but after a while the algae started coming back, so I dropped my light schedule from 8 hours to only 5. Most of the algae went away, but after a few weeks of this I noticed my corals started to look a little anemic, so I gradually brought the lights back up to 8 hours a day. The good news was the corals began to come back – the bad news, so did the hair algae. One day I literally scrubbed each and every surface of the tank with a brush and ran a diatom filter. The tank was immaculate for about a week but my corals didn’t look so great. I noticed the purple “mat” that comprised my green star polyps was gradually getting covered with cyano. I gently scrubbed it clean. The polyps took a day or so to recover from this “manhandling” but eventually began to open. However, the cyano came back again and started to grow on more than the GSP. Soon, it was even growing on my button polyps and a really beautiful little bright green zoa “tree”.

My GSP’s which were at one time vibrant and radiant green are now a mere shadow of themselves, with only a few polyps extending because the mat is getting covered by cyano. The “zoa tree” looks anemic – whereas it was once a dark green it is now a sickly lighter shade – and many of the polyps are covered in cyano that, despite how many times I clean them, they always get covered up in a few days.

I recently cleaned my skimmer and it is no better or no worse than it ever was.

I have looked and looked on line for some kind of help, but the only thing I ever see is this sort of advice:

Make sure you only use RO/DI water. Well, DUH!! I’ve been using nothing but for 2 years (the first year was NSW from the local shore). My membrane was just changed in January and all my resin and other filters get changed every year. The fresh RO/DI has zero phosphates, TDS is 0ppm ALL THE TIME (I use an inline TDS meter) and phosphates are zero. I’m fully convinced it is NOT my RO/DI.

Don’t overfeed. I’ve actually cut down on feedings yet the problem is only getting worse.

Make sure you have a lot of flow. With (2) Koralia Ones and a MaxiJet 1200 in the back, my tank looks like a washing machine. In fact, I have GHA and cyano growing in areas that have the STRONGEST flow as well as the weakest.

Change at least 20% of the water every month. I’ve been doing 30% weekly since day one. The problem took about 2-1/2 years to get bad enough to the point that I’m writing this.

Make sure you use GOOD salt mix. Using nothing but Tropic Marin Pro Reef I’m pretty convinced my salt is perfect. Ironically, my tank looked better with NSW I used to harvest myself until it became a concern in the winter what with road salt runoff concerns etc plus the PITA factor of going out on a cold day to get it.

This is caused by overstocking. Look at what I have. Even if it IS overstocked with fish, why was the tank good for 2-1/2 years?

Your lights are bad! As mentioned earlier, I change my lights every 6 months.

Your nitrates are high. My nitrates have never been above 10ppm and are usually around 5ppm, going way back to a few months after my tank was established.

Honestly, these are all amateurish, newbie suggestions that I am sure are fine for someone whose tank has perhaps just cycled, but I believe I have checked all the basics and still have a problem. Not poking fun at these comments, but this is pretty much all I ever see on the subject. Isn't it obvious that people with this problem have already tried the obvious (newbies aside)? On the other hand, I’m perfectly willing to accept some advice and constructive criticism; I can always learn from others more well-versed in this subject!! What I believe is wrong is SOMETHING has changed DRASTICALLY but I can’t identify it. Is it possible the tank is getting “old” (I have heard of something called “old tank syndrome” but I’d be hard-pressed to believe that that can happened to 2-1/2 year old reef – still…)

I truly appreciate any advice you can offer.

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

My tank is a little over two yrs also. I have also had this problem and still do to an extent. I first got new lighting not only to try and relieve the cyano but I really did need it. The cyano disappeared for a little while but did come back, worse even. After doing everything that you also listed I finally just started vigalant water changes, a little over 50% per week. This did reduce the cyano to merely nothing but then another algae took its place. Cotton candy algae is what took its place and it just recently got out of hand. I just got some mexican turbos which have taken care of that issue in a bout two weeks now.

To make a long story short here is what I think contributed to the out break of the cyano and some hair algae.

I did not maintain a strong and diverse clean up crew.

My trates were reading low around 5-10ppm and PO4 was not detectable using liquid tests. This is where the large water changes came in and also ran GFO heavy just incase.

I still have a small problem but very managable. It has taken nearly six months to get it back to normal.

I hope my rambling is helpful if you can sort it out.

I think if you get some Turbo snails, a bunch of dwarf cerith snails, some conchs, bumping up the water changes, running some GFO and manually get as much out as possable you can turn the tank around but it will take some time.

 

[DaveK]

One area I do not see mentioned is you phosphate readings. Phosphate can have a big impact on unwanted algae growth.

If you do not already have one, get a phosphate test kit, and test your water.

However, do not assume that because the reading is 0 or very low, that there is no problem. Algae can be removing phosphate and nitrate as fast as it's being added, and then the algae grows.

Also, for some reason, live rock seems to be able to "absorb" phosphates, and let algae grow all over the rock. This is why you sometimes hear about people "cooking their live rock".

If you are not already doing so, I would add a phos-ban reactor with media (or equivalent product) and use it to remove any phosphate.

You could also consider adding a refugium, but they are not usually cost effective on a small tank.

 

[deehz]

I agree with the last post. get a phosphate test kit first if you haven't gotten one already, then get the reactor w/media.
cyano and hair algae literally took over my tank. I mean it was a blanket and a constant fight. I showed my LFS to see what it was (it was pretty obvious what it was, just needed a second opinion) and told me to get a phosphate tester first. I was already using RODI to do my water changes, so it wasn't the water. When i got it and tested my water, it was of the charts! He than recommended a reactor with phosphate absorbing media. this has done wonders for the past 3-4 months. the cyano is 99.9 % gone and get an occasional spell of hair algae that my clean up crew can handle. Hope this helps.

 

[JT101]

Everyone,

I do really appreciate all the input and suggestions. It all makes good sense. However, there is one thing I have never really understood: phosphate measurements:

Fearing that my RO/DI water was loaded with P04 I checked that and, of course, it was zero. I then checked my tank water - also zero. Now here's the part that never made sense to me. If you check your tank and you measure phosphates well, then, you have phosphates - simple as that! However, if you DON'T, I have heard many times (as was suggested above) that you may STILL have P04 but because it's being "taken up" by algae then it may not show up in tests. OK -so, then what? Do you assume you DO or do you assume you DON'T? Do you see why this makes no sense?

Aside from that, I think my CUC is wanting. However, will a good CUC eat cyano? I thought that snails don't eat that stuff, but even if they do, will they climb corals to do that?

Thanks

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

I personally dont belive that the NO3 and PO4 is used up as fast as yoy test for it.

As for the PO4 test kits, the common test kits only measure as low as .5ppm. We are looking for .02-.03ppm which is a big difference from .5. To measure this you will need a photometer which can be costly, around $200+.

As for the Cyano. I dont know of anything that really eats it. But you can siphon it off and then blow off that area with a turkey baster. Blowing off the area will move the debris that is attracting the cyano. Persistance is key, even if you have to do this evey day or so.

Before you do your water changes try shutting off all your pumps and blow off all the rocks and corals with the turkey baster as you siphon the water that you just stirred up. Notice if there seems to be more debris where the cyano is growing.

Cyano is one of the hardest algaes to beat. Even in a system with very very low nutrients and P this stuff can still thrive. IMO, at least it seems to appear to me that the turbos kinda eat it as they graze over everything even the corals. Even if the CUC does not eat the cyano, they will eat some of the cyanos food and therefore help stop it from growing.

What works for me to get rid of it may not work for you. Cyano has been around for billions of years. It had been determined that Cyano had a huge part in creating most of the oxygen in our air. With this said you will need to try everything that is suggested (with in reason) to you untill you find what works. I know it is a long, frustrating and not to mention could be costly by the time you are through.

I do not suggest to use any chemicals such as RED SLIME REMOVER. It may crash your tank but more importantly in can cause the Cyano to be come resistant and make it even harder to get rid of.

 

[sasquatch]

My nitrates have never been above 10ppm and are usually around 5ppm, going way back to a few months after my tank was established.
What I believe is wrong is SOMETHING has changed DRASTICALLY but I can’t identify it. Is it possible the tank is getting “old” (I have heard of something called “old tank syndrome” but I’d be hard-pressed to believe that that can happened to 2-1/2 year old reef – still…)

I truly appreciate any advice you can offer.

Hi JT, I couldn't help but comment here as ive just ended my own struggle with this problem. Its not old tank syndrome its "youve exceeded your tanks capacity to process nutrient" syndrome
Buy sufficient Purigen x2 for your gallonage,(use correct amount!, second amount is for while first batch is being cleaned) change it out every 4 days and recharge it, put it in a sump sock if you can get one in there, in 3 weeks you should be able to vacuum it out with a siphon hose. Any test kit is only good when everything is perfect, testing from that point will indicate the beginning of an issue, in mid problem your just spinning your wheels. This is cheap,safe and effective. Best luck!

 

[JT101]

Hi JT, I couldn't help but comment here as ive just ended my own struggle with this problem. Its not old tank syndrome its "youve exceeded your tanks capacity to process nutrient" syndrome
Buy sufficient Purigen x2 for your gallonage,(use correct amount!, second amount is for while first batch is being cleaned) change it out every 4 days and recharge it, put it in a sump sock if you can get one in there, in 3 weeks you should be able to vacuum it out with a siphon hose. Any test kit is only good when everything is perfect, testing from that point will indicate the beginning of an issue, in mid problem your just spinning your wheels. This is cheap,safe and effective. Best luck!

Hi Sasquatch,

Sorry for the lateness of my reply but we've been getting ready for holding a friend's engagement party here for the last couple weeks and it's been nearly impossible to get around to browsing this site....

I'm a little worried as to what is the cause of what you very aptly described as "you've exceeded your tank's capacity to process nutrient syndrome". What can cause this? Is the substrate getting too foul? Is the LR dying? How can a tank - within which I haven't added a single fish for over 2 years - stop processing nutrients?

Isn't adding Purigen going to just remove whatever excessive nutrients are floating around in the water? How will that enhance the tank's long-term abililty to process nutrient? I'm confused!!

One thing I forgot to mention is that I have been using an AquaClear "OneSize" filter in my tank for about a year now. The reason I started doing this is because I wanted to make my water more clear and to be able to collect all the "mulm" that gets all over my LR. The OneSize filter is in the L/H back chamber, and is connected to my MaxiJet1200 recirculating pump. The water comes in the R/H "spillway", goes through the filter and comes out the L/H exit hose. Almost immediately after I started using it I noticed that the water was amazingly clear, almost as clear as when I used a Vortex DE filter in there. What I usually did was, right before a water change, I would "turkey baster" the whole tank and wait a couple of hours until most of the crap got collected by the filter, then I would change it, THEN change the water; this way all the garbage is gone and I'm starting with a clean system. I WOULD like to mention that when I did this, the pure-white filter material would look almost black and VERY gunky (never smelly, though - it just smells like the sea, no rotten egg odor), BUT there were a few times that I checked the filter RIGHT BEFORE I blasted my LR with the baster, and the filter was STILL very dirty. THis means that, even if undisturbed water goes through it, it is collecting a high level of particulate matter.

Moving on, I decided last week that maybe even with a 5-7 day filter changing regiment I was still allowing too much particulate matter to "see" my water as it passed through the filter. So, what I decided to do was eliminate the filter over the course of a few days in stages. Stage one, I thoroughly scrubbed all my LR and even some of my zoas and green star polyps (that had some red algae growing on them) and allowed the filter to collect the crap, then changed the filter and THEN changed the water. Next day, I scrubbed what little red algae remained, allowed the filter to collect, changed it and did a water change again, but THIS time I left the filter out. Guess what happened? The tank was free and clear of any algae BUT ONLY FOR A FEW DAYS! As of this writing, the red algae is coming back on the LR - and slowly growing back on some of my corals - and yes, the green hair algae is growing back too!!!

I am at my wit's end on this. My beautiful green star polyps are slowly dying, the bright green "zoa tree" looks anemic and even my ricordia's are smaller than they used to be.


What's next? I'm at a loss

 

[sasquatch]

Hey, no problem, you must accept the simple fact your tank has a very limited capacity to process what you put in (emphasis on YOU lol) any filter left long enough to turn black is doing more harm than good. The LR is not dying its just "busy" or overworked, using filters is fine "IF" you clean then every 3 days, the purigen is to lock up and export the excess it will not just go away by madjik lol. stay the course and most of all don't panic, if the algae smells fear it will attack( start the purigen, seriously.) Ill keep an eye out for your reply lol

 

[JT101]

Hey, no problem, you must accept the simple fact your tank has a very limited capacity to process what you put in (emphasis on YOU lol) any filter left long enough to turn black is doing more harm than good. The LR is not dying its just "busy" or overworked, using filters is fine "IF" you clean then every 3 days, the purigen is to lock up and export the excess it will not just go away by madjik lol. stay the course and most of all don't panic, if the algae smells fear it will attack( start the purigen, seriously.) Ill keep an eye out for your reply lol

OK, I'll TRY not to panic :cry1: !!!

I guess I've been doing more harm than good by leaving my filter in even for just 5 days? I realize that using a filter is only good insomuch as it removes mulm & particulates BUT if you leave it in too long I guess this gunk begins to decay and produce nitrates, and the water pouring by it just gets saturated with it. I am still going to stay away from the filter and try to focus more on exporting, since filtering just moves the crap from inside the tank to the filter but it's STILL EXPOSED TO THE WATER :verymad:

I couldn't get any Purigen today before my LFS closed so what I did instead was fill the entire tubular chamber of the AquaClear OneSize filter with some decent activated carbon that I had. So far nothing looks any different but I could SWEAR my palys are more "open" than I've seen them appear in 6 months!! Tomorrow I'll pick up some Purigen.

PS - Isn't the use of any adsorpent (such as carbon or Purigen) apt to ALSO remove essential trace elements as well as the bad stuff like nitrates? Just curious.

Thanks
John

 

[JT101]

Sorry, one more :

How "durable" are green star polyps? I mean, how far gone has anyone ever seen a polyp "mat" get before it comes back due to improving conditions? Mine look pretty far gone; there used to be hundreds of polyps on the main mat but now only about a dozen or so, because of the dreaded red algae. Will this mat come back eventually, or is it most likely still dying a slow death?

Thanks
John

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

If the mat is still there they will come back.

 

[sasquatch]

OK, I'll TRY not to panic :cry1: !!!

I guess I've been doing more harm than good by leaving my filter in even for just 5 days? I realize that using a filter is only good insomuch as it removes mulm & particulates BUT if you leave it in too long I guess this gunk begins to decay and produce nitrates, and the water pouring by it just gets saturated with it. I am still going to stay away from the filter and try to focus more on exporting, since filtering just moves the crap from inside the tank to the filter but it's STILL EXPOSED TO THE WATER :verymad:

I couldn't get any Purigen today before my LFS closed so what I did instead was fill the entire tubular chamber of the AquaClear OneSize filter with some decent activated carbon that I had. So far nothing looks any different but I could SWEAR my palys are more "open" than I've seen them appear in 6 months!! Tomorrow I'll pick up some Purigen.



PS - Isn't the use of any adsorpent (such as carbon or Purigen) apt to ALSO remove essential trace elements as well as the bad stuff like nitrates? Just curious.

Thanks
John

John trace element loss is not even worth the consideration compared to the damage done by the toxins left is place, regular water changes will take care of any trace removal, figure out what your water change gallons a month "should be" and divide by 30, everyday when you feed your tank take out the 1/30th and replace with new salt mix, no more water changes! no more waterchange shock, a steady replacement of trace elements,
Carbon?? two points,1) carbon use will clarify water thereby increasing light penetration, irregular use on a dirty water column can cause bleaching events.
2) Carbon is no different than any other filter media in regards that it traps muck, the 3 to 4 day rule also applies, on 3rd day rinse it with rodi, scruntch it by hand to expose more pores, rinse again and reuse for 2 to 3 days and throw it out. Cheers!

 

[AndyMan]

Everyone,

I do really appreciate all the input and suggestions. It all makes good sense. However, there is one thing I have never really understood: phosphate measurements:

Fearing that my RO/DI water was loaded with P04 I checked that and, of course, it was zero. I then checked my tank water - also zero. Now here's the part that never made sense to me. If you check your tank and you measure phosphates well, then, you have phosphates - simple as that! However, if you DON'T, I have heard many times (as was suggested above) that you may STILL have P04 but because it's being "taken up" by algae then it may not show up in tests. OK -so, then what? Do you assume you DO or do you assume you DON'T? Do you see why this makes no sense?

Aside from that, I think my CUC is wanting. However, will a good CUC eat cyano? I thought that snails don't eat that stuff, but even if they do, will they climb corals to do that?

Thanks

Do your P04 test soon after you do a clean up of the algea and water change...I am assuming you are siphoning out the algae with your water changes. This should get you some readings.

 

[staresatrocks]

Hello! It's been a while

Help!!

Hi JT; I'll take a stab at it.

My reef tank is slowly being overtaken by hair algae and cyano.

Not a happy thought.

My AquaPod 24 was established in June 2007. For almost 3 years now I’ve had basically the same inhabitants: a hawkfish, a pair of oscellaris clowns, and a small blue tang (yes, it is ONLY about 2” long and has stayed that way for almost 3 years).

Assuming that this means it's a 24-gallon tank, I think it might be overloaded. You did get away with it for 3 years, but fish continue growing until they die. It's possible that the hawkfish and the clowns have finally reached sizes such that you can't help but have nitrates high enough to cause an algae problem.

I recently cleaned my skimmer and it is no better or no worse than it ever was.

Then the skmmer's not the problem, per se.

I have looked and looked on line for some kind of help, but the only thing I ever see is this sort of advice:

Make sure you only use RO/DI water. Well, DUH!! I’ve been using nothing but for 2 years (the first year was NSW from the local shore). My membrane was just changed in January and all my resin and other filters get changed every year. The fresh RO/DI has zero phosphates, TDS is 0ppm ALL THE TIME (I use an inline TDS meter) and phosphates are zero. I’m fully convinced it is NOT my RO/DI.

I would agree.

Don’t overfeed. I’ve actually cut down on feedings yet the problem is only getting worse.

okay...

Make sure you have a lot of flow.[/B] With (2) Koralia Ones and a MaxiJet 1200 in the back, my tank looks like a washing machine. In fact, I have GHA and cyano growing in areas that have the STRONGEST flow as well as the weakest.

Then the water flow variable is eliminated as well.

Change at least 20% of the water every month. I’ve been doing 30% weekly since day one. The problem took about 2-1/2 years to get bad enough to the point that I’m writing this.

Water changes are good for replenishing trace elements, but I'm sure you realize that they're not all that effective at keeping nitrates low.

Make sure you use GOOD salt mix.[/B] Using nothing but Tropic Marin Pro Reef I’m pretty convinced my salt is perfect. Ironically, my tank looked better with NSW I used to harvest myself until it became a concern in the winter what with road salt runoff concerns etc plus the PITA factor of going out on a cold day to get it.

If your tank looked better with NSW, that's a legitimate reason to suspect the Tropic Marin Pro as a potential contributor to the problem, logically.

This is caused by overstocking. Look at what I have. Even if it IS overstocked with fish, why was the tank good for 2-1/2 years?

Perhaps it took that long for your fish to reach the size that pushed your tank over the edge. You have three fish that are not thin types such as chromis or damsels and therefore produce more waste. The fact that your Tang has remained 2 inches long is also a signal that all is not well.

Your lights are bad! As mentioned earlier, I change my lights every 6 months.

Your nitrates are high. My nitrates have never been above 10ppm and are usually around 5ppm, going way back to a few months after my tank was established.

Even small amounts of nitrate can cause algae problems. The fact that, in spite of the algae, your nitrate readings are 5-10 means that you do have higher nitrates that you did before this happened.

What I believe is wrong is SOMETHING has changed DRASTICALLY but I can’t identify it. Is it possible the tank is getting “old” (I have heard of something called “old tank syndrome” but I’d be hard-pressed to believe that that can happened to 2-1/2 year old reef – still…)

I truly appreciate any advice you can offer.

I doubt it's "old tank syndrome." I've read about that, and it's really ugly! Your water change regimen would have procluded that unless you have detritus buried in your sandbed.

If you add to your CUC, you will be adding "poopers" to your tank, and poopers don't export anything. None of them will eat the cyano, and I don't know of anything that eats hair algae that I would recommend adding to your tank.

With all due respect, I think overstocking relative to your tank's capacity for denitrification is the problem.

I will bow out at this point, because I don't have any experience with skimmers, and very little with refugiums, etc. We have members here who are far more capable of suggesting equipment you might use to alleviate the problem.

 

[lcstorc]

You mention you have decreased the amount you are feeding, but what are you feeding? Most prepared foods use phosphates as a preservative. It won't be a magic fix, but start rinsing the food in RO/DI before feeding.

 

[JT101]

Hi Lynn,

I've been feeding the following frozen foods for almost 3 years:

Marine Cuisine
Mysis shrimp
Cyclop-Eez


John