Potential stings and poisons in our reef tanks!!

Msigler

Member
I had a bunch of these hitchhiking green paly's in my tank several months ago, they came from the local fish store. I removed them all after visiting the local fish store (where they hitchhiked from) and seeing the owners face, which looked like she had been hit repeatedly with a baseball bat on the right side of her face. When I asked her what happened she said that she had touched the palys and (not thinking) rubbed her eye. These things are deadly imo. I don't know how many times I have gotten a gross mouthful of SW when starting the siphon for a water change. It makes me wonder if it would have killed me, had I gotten some of the paly "juice" in my throat.
 
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Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
Mike - I hope you've found a better way to start your siphon! I have one with a ball on the end that I squeeze a few times to get the siphon going. I once literally pulled off a large section of a large colony of similar palys, and they released a lot of milky toxin that just about killed off all of my other corals. It took several weeks for some of the corals to recover.
 

David Shaw

Well-Known Member
Wow sorry to read about your disaster and subsequent health scare. Thanks you for posting as it is so easy to forget or not to bother with gloves and this serves as a warning to us all.

I am always extra vigilant and wash my hands thoroughly after being in the tank to be on the safe side but often forget to put the gloves on. I will remedy this and do it every time now.
 

lethal

Has been struck by the ban stick
Thanks so much for posting this, a stark reminder to us all. Off to buy some gloves now!
 

EricTheRed

Member
WOW WOW WOW
I hope there was no permanent damage to you and/or your family. I'm sooo glad my neighbor talked me into getting a controller after seeing this!
 

EricTheRed

Member
Question,
In your pic, are the green paly's the ones in between the shrimp and the clown, or are they the ones in the middle below the zoas? I brought home some paly hitchhikers that spread like weeds. They are a light brownish tan with a small green spot in the middle and look very similar to the ones in the forefront of your pic.
 

FCatCH76

Member
those are the ones, its actually all of them, the light just makes it look different for the rest, spread like weeds and pack a punch.
 

EricTheRed

Member
those are the ones, its actually all of them, the light just makes it look different for the rest, spread like weeds and pack a punch.

Anyone know of a safe way to trim these back without poisoning the tank? Mine have spread a bit too much for my liking. They're taking up the space I wanted my zoas to grow into.

Before:
img_1165.jpg


After: (the ugly ones on the bottom right)
img_14222.jpg
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
Wow!! Thank you for sharing and I pray you don't have any permanent damage.
I fail to put my gloves on a lot and need to work on doing better at that.
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
This has been known for a long time now. Most Zoanthids are toxic. Some people are more sensitive to them then others. Just like bee stings. I am allergic to green star polyps and and zoes. I become very dizzy and light headed when working with them. (why I mostly mess with sps now)

The problem really comes down to people not doing there home work these days and doing random buys because a coral looks cool and has a funky name. ;)

Here is whet you can find taking a few minutes researching in google. From Wikipedia:

Some zoanthids contain the highly toxic substance palytoxin. Palytoxin is one of the most toxic organic substances in the world, but there is an ongoing debate over the concentration of this toxin in these animals.[citation needed] However, even in small quantities, the toxin can be fatal should it be ingested or enter the blood stream. If delivered immediately, vasodilators injected into the ventricle of the heart can act as an antidote.[1]
In order for this toxin to be dangerous to humans, the average aquarist would need to ingest the zoanthid in sufficient quantities, or brush a recent cut over it. Average handling, propagation and aquarium maintenance is unlikely to pose any danger beyond a localized skin reaction.[citation needed] A 2010 study found toxic zoanthids in three Washington D.C. area aquarium stores.[7]
Palytoxin is a tumor promoter, and is being studied in relation to signaling pathways in skin cancer genesis.[8] Contrary to common belief, palytoxin can be absorbed through intact skin.[9] The danger of acute poisoning from venomous zoanthids is quite real. An aquarist was poisoned through skin injuries on fingers by a Parazoanthus species, but recovered after 3 days. His zoanthid was found to contain 2-3 milligram of palytoxin per gram.[10] For comparison, the intravenous LD50 dose of palytoxin for a grown man is less than 8 microgram. Thus each gram of the offending zoanthid contained enough venom to kill at least 125 grown men.

Frank
 

catran

Well-Known Member
I try to inform anyone dealing with zoas or fragging them about palytoxin poison. It's incredible, but I don't think many believe in the seriousness of the situation. Since zoas close up and retain water for long periods of time outside the tank, they can also squirt water when squeezed or cut. I can't imagine what damage it would cause or what it would feel like to have palytoxin in my eye....
 

FCatCH76

Member
This has been known for a long time now. Most Zoanthids are toxic. Some people are more sensitive to them then others. Just like bee stings. I am allergic to green star polyps and and zoes. I become very dizzy and light headed when working with them. (why I mostly mess with sps now)

The problem really comes down to people not doing there home work these days and doing random buys because a coral looks cool and has a funky name. ;)



Frank

Frank,

Insinuating that I did not do research about theses corals is insulting to say the least. I purchased a coral and these corals were attached to the rock. I researched, gave them a thriving environment and enjoyed them for 3+ years. Just so happens a heater fails and I jump in to get my tank back up and running. I knew all about these, just didn't think they would still exude toxins after everything we did to the tank.

After sitting in 110+ degree water for 4+ hours (I guess) the tank was drained, refilled with tap water (while the rock, sand and dead coral are still in there), then washed in a shower, scrubbed, rinsed and placed the rock in my frag tank. After all this, the palys still took out my frag tank.

I knew all about these corals and their dangers, thats what saved my life. So, thanks for the post, always appreciate the input! ;)
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
.............I knew all about these corals and their dangers, thats what saved my life. So, thanks for the post, always appreciate the input! ;)

That was key information to give to the doctors. By the time they "might" have figured out what the problem was, it may have been too late! The knowledge did indeed save your life.
 

FCatCH76

Member
exactly Terry! Nice to see a member focus on the important info instead of insinuating people buy things because they look cool. Well there goes half the hobby community. Its those of us who know what we are dealing with who try and HELP others by posting the info here on forums.

and yes, Frank , your post has rubbed me the wrong way. Can you find info where they will continue to exude toxin three days later after being nuked to 110, soak in tap water, scrubbed in the shower under warm water, rinsed in cold water and then placed in a bucket with no water for 1/2 hour or so. I was telling the story so others would know. AH
 

catran

Well-Known Member
I think Frank was addressing the problem on the whole, not your specific instance. A lot of people will see this post. Newbies tend to jump and buy corals because they are pretty and they need to be informed of the danger of not knowing what they are getting themselves into. Yes, this post will inform them of the dangers of zoanthids, but what about all of the other dangerous corals? I handled my frogspawn for months and never had a problem. Suddenly, one day I was moving another coral near the frogspawn and I felt a very sharp needle like pain in my pinky finger knuckle. Apparently, I had a small cut and I was stung by the frogspawn in my cut! Wow, that hurt for quite a while. It didn't sting anywhere else on my hand or finger...The point is, your post will further inform people about the dangers of zoanthids and their continuing defense mechanisms after all of your hard work to save them, but they still need to research everything they buy.
 

Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
I agree with Cat. Frankie was just generalizing for everyone that reads the thread. He posted the same information in the moderator's forum for us mods - just to be sure we were also aware of the dangers.
 

cheeks69

Wannabe Guru
RS STAFF
Re: Palytoxin is not fun!

I posted this photo on another thread about reef dangers but anyway I'm not allergic to anything and have my hands in the tank daily but once when handling my Hammer I got a very painful sting on my arm.
Hope you make a complete recovery FCatCH76.

143_4390.jpg
 

Frankie

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
As pointed out I was not singling you out but posting that for the general audience. I know nothing of your particular wealth of information so I do not single people out in my posts just for that reason. (unless your just being a complete doofus anyhow ;) )

I hope anyone reading this thread can look deeper into my "insinuated insults" and learn from this OP's mistakes so as not to fall into these problems in the near future.

Frank
 
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Reefmack

NaClH2O Addicted
PREMIUM
Good place to post that picture Robert! Visuals like FCatch's and yours really help to let folks know what can happen. I twice had a similar rash on the back of my hand from a frogspawn - after 2 encounters I found out was it was. Till then I'll admit that I had no idea that corals could sting a person.
 

FCatCH76

Member
Re: Palytoxin is not fun!

I posted this photo on another thread about reef dangers but anyway I'm not allergic to anything and have my hands in the tank daily but once when handling my Hammer I got a very painful sting on my arm.
Hope you make a complete recovery FCatCH76.

143_4390.jpg

thx cheeks and ouch!! That looks like it hurt a bit.
 
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