Pods eating anemone

[magnetar68]

My BTA has not looked like a normal BTA since I got it a couple of weeks ago. My tank is almost 6 months old. Params are all within normal ranges. Corals are doing great. A couple of days ago I noticed one of my electric blue hermits snipping at it, so I moved the hermit to my qt. Tonight, I shined a flashlight and saw a few larger pods (amphipod) crawling all over the BTA. Is this normal? Mt tank has hundreds of these pods and they come out at night. Could they be harassing the anemone?

 

[Eric]

Not that I'm aware of.

Do you have proper lights and stable conditions? Anemones are very sensitive to change and need top of the line T5ho at a minimum halides preferred.

If you don't have the right light and stable conditions they will slowly wither and die, also are you feeding it and if so what?

 

[GlassMunky]

less than 6 month old tank and a nem......????

 

[wm23oh]

When I first added my Sebae Anemone I had pods all over the base and still do. They are just doing there job eating the crud in the tank IMO. At least that is what they were doing in my tank.

As far as on the anemone (inside the tentacles) I have seen this too with mine and from time to time I still see them but much less now then I did then since it has gotten stickier and colored up nicely.

My first concern as with anything is water quality, lighting, location, flow. If you can answer those and not say perfect, lots, my front room, Flow is awesome and I'm going to get Progressive Insurance It would be helpful (BTW her name is Flo not Flow). Sorry I've seen too many other people answer that way.

As for the hermits, it sounds like your Anemone isn't all that sticky which seams to say something is defiantly wrong or that it needs to acclimate itself to your tank IMO. It should be able to grab onto that little hermit and pull him in for lunch. Ultimately I wouldn't worry about the hermits unless they are steeling the Anemone's food. BTW what and how much are you feeding?

What kind of lighting did the store have? Did you have them feed it before purchasing? Did they do the sticky test for you?

Where do you get your water from? Have you actually tested the source water?

I am no expert but since I've had my Sebae (different I know) I figured I would put out some of the questions I ask myself if something looks odd. BTW hopefully you will have a few peanut worms in there to help clean up around it too. It is really cool to watch them and they do a real nice job too.

Last question I like to ask is do you blow off the rock around the Anemone? Keeping all that crap in the water column will allow your skimmer to do it's job and since the Anemone covers the rock most of the time while open it doesn't get all that good flow (not Flo!).

Best wishes,

James

 

[magnetar68]

My first concern as with anything is water quality, lighting, location, flow.

BTW what and how much are you feeding?

What kind of lighting did the store have? Did you have them feed it before purchasing? Did they do the sticky test for you?

Where do you get your water from? Have you actually tested the source water?

Water quality is and has been excellent and stable: temp 78 (on hot days when the house AC is at 73 it can rise to 79), pH 8.2 (there is a range here too with the photosynthesis during the day and can rise to ~8.3), SG 1.024, Ca 420, dkH 9-10 (this does vary somewhat I dose with SeaChem ReefFusion twice per week), Mg 1275, and NH3 N02 NO3 PO4 are all 0.00 according to API test kit.

While I read the "rule" of waiting for a tank to be 6 months or 12 months for an Anemone, I used very well cured LiveRock and LiveSand and my tank cycled very quickly -- less than few days (whereas my other tank which was a more standard setup took 5 weeks to got to 0 NH3 and NO2), so I figured that the rule was in general and that this "rule" could be adjusted by a few weeks for tanks that were started with significant initial bacteria colonies. My NH3, NO2, NO3, and PO4 has all been 0 since week 2.

Lighting is 2x55W PC T5 (it is a non-standard bulb that the Red Sea MAX 34g uses --my understanding is that is stronger than 2x65W PC lighting, probably closer to 2x75W equivalent?). I did some research and found many people having no issues with BTAs under this lighting. I originally put him higher in the tank. He first moved lower to a crack on the left side. He then moved out at night a few days later to the center, but as soon as the lights came on he moved down a little further to a spot in front and a little lower down. He has been there for a week.

I think flow is very good. I have the standard RSM pumps (2x150gph, and an additional Rio 200 PowerHead from the other side of the tank. It has a restricter on it so I can set the flow to a speed of my choosing. But it's mostly open at this point. I had a Koralia 2, but that seemed like too much flow).

The anem is about 3"-5" in size (depends how blown up he is). I have been feeding a 1/2" size piece of fresh scallop or frozen silverside 3 days per week (alternating). He eats it OK, but this is what the hermits were going after. I removed all of the hermits from the tank at this point.

I use RO water from the LFS. I sent my water to a professional testing service and everything was good. Silicas were a bit high and Potassium and Iodine were a very small amount on the low side, but I do dose Idine once per month now and have a Saffiert test kit for it and it seems OK now (although that test is iffy in IMO). I did this test before a water change not after it to see what values were at the end of the week (I do a 15% (5g) water change once per week using SeaChem Salinity Salt).

THe LFS has MH lighting, but this anem was in a darker part of the tank (not dark, just darker), and while they did not do a feed test, he did touch it and it quickly closed up. He also had to carefully remove the BTA from the rock since he was very well attached. They use a blunt rounded plastic tool for detaching them. I don't know what you are referring two in terms of a sticky test.

 

[lkbart]

Lighting is 2x55W PC T5 (it is a non-standard bulb that the Red Sea MAX 34g uses --my understanding is that is stronger than 2x65W PC lighting, probably closer to 2x75W equivalent?). I did some research and found many people having no issues with BTAs under this lighting.

Never heard of a PC T5. Is it Power Compact lighting or T-5 lighting? (or have they combined them now & I am living in the dark ages?)
And I'm guessing the tank is a 34gallon? A little on the small side for a BTA, especially for a less established tank.

The anem is about 3"-5" in size (depends how blown up he is). I have been feeding a 1/2" size piece of fresh scallop or frozen silverside 3 days per week (alternating). He eats it OK, but this is what the hermits were going after. I removed all of the hermits from the tank at this point.

If you're feeding every other day, you may not be allowing time for the nem to poo. Feeding once or maybe twice a week should do. Some people don't feed them at all. Most of their nutrition comes from the zooxanthellae (symbiotic algae living off the light). What food you do feed it has to come out after processing --- same hole. Every now & then, mine shrink & look a little sickly for an hour or so & then you see poo coming out & an hour or so later they are big & pretty again. Are you seeing it expel waste?

 

[magnetar68]

Never heard of a PC T5.

If you're feeding every other day, you may not be allowing time for the nem to poo. Feeding once or maybe twice a week should do. Some people don't feed them at all. Most of their nutrition comes from the zooxanthellae (symbiotic algae living off the light). What food you do feed it has to come out after processing --- same hole. Every now & then, mine shrink & look a little sickly for an hour or so & then you see poo coming out & an hour or so later they are big & pretty again. Are you seeing it expel waste?

I had read on a couple of sites (I cannot attest to their accuracy) that a smaller anem should be fed a smaller amount 3 times a week, but a lager anem should be fed a larger amount once per week. So that was the guidance I was using.

Yes. I see it expelling waste between feedings.

 

[magnetar68]

Some Pics

Here is what the BTA looks like during the day:

Here is what it looked like last night with pods crawling on it (identified with green circles):

Here is a closeup of one of the pods (best I could do):

 

[wm23oh]

I'm rather confused about the lighting and since the WQ is perfect (possibly) it sounds like you have a good idea on how to check WQ but I'm not so sure it's smart to trust someone else to test the water.

The sticky test is just that. Use your hand or preferably a net and allow it to touch the tentacles of the Anemone and see if it pulls the way the net is being pulled or if it just brushes against them. WARNING: Anemone's have stinging cells that can sting you and in some people KILL them. Be smart about this!

Wet Web Media.com is a great source of information but it's a general RULE not a flat out do this and everything will be OK.

I do suggest feeding less as I only feed mine the amount of a small Guppy once a week. Just like with your fish only feeding what they can consume it's the same for your Anemone or it will start to rot and hurt more than it helps.

Your Anemone looks like it is light starved in some ways from the photo especially the stubby tentacles. Is this the way you got it?

Best wishes,

James

 

[Eric]

Well I am thinking either the lighting or the 73-78 5 temp fluctuation, 5 degrees is pretty significant for a sensitive animal if this is happening on a daily basis.

If your lights are T5 are they high output and do they have independent reflector?

These post you referred to with nems under the same lighting you have do you know if they have been in the tank for more than a year? Typically nems can/will last quite a while before kicking the bucket so to speck.

If your tests are correct those are the only two issues I see.

 

[magnetar68]

I'm rather confused about the lighting

T5 is the diameter of the tube T5=5/8" (T8 = 8/8" and T12 = 12/8").
PowerCompact is the type of lighting. My understanding (supported here) is that PC is a more compact type of Florescent VHO lighting (both output about 3x a normal florescent bulb). The Red Sea MAX lighting is 50/50 Actinic/10K. I don't know if it is adequate, but like I said earlier, I know of several folks doing fine with BTAs under this lighting and he is near the top of the tank (9"-10" deep).

and since the WQ is perfect (possibly) it sounds like you have a good idea on how to check WQ but I'm not so sure it's smart to trust someone else to test the water.

I test the water myself every week with mainly API and some Salifert test kits (Ph,NH3,NO2,NO3,PO4,Ca,dKH, and Mg). I only had the water professionally tested once to get an idea of a complete water profile so I could get some transparancy to the final product I get with the RO water I get from my LFS. The professional test looms at a lot more parameters than I can economically test myself. Personally, I think this is a very smart idea, so we can agree to disagree on that. I validate my own testing and at the same time get tests for many trace elements that I would rather not buy tests for: Silica, Potassium, Strontium, Molybdenum, Iodine, Copper, and Boron.

I do suggest feeding less as I only feed mine the amount of a small Guppy once a week. Just like with your fish only feeding what they can consume it's the same for your Anemone or it will start to rot and hurt more than it helps.

OK, I will try that.

Your Anemone looks like it is light starved in some ways from the photo especially the stubby tentacles. Is this the way you got it?

Bummer, that's what I am afraid of. No, he looked normal at the LFS. After I got him he crawled into a crack and stayed there for a week. After that he came out and was at the top of the tank on the highest rock for a day, and then he moved to where he is now. Maybe my acclimation routine was off? I did a 2 hour drip acclimation with about 1-2 drips per second.

 

[magnetar68]

Well I am thinking either the lighting or the 73-78 5 temp fluctuation, 5 degrees is pretty significant for a sensitive animal if this is happening on a daily basis..

Sorry, you mis-read the post. The fluctuation is from 78-79 (1 degree). When the house air conditioning is set to 73, the tank temp rises to as high as 79, but as long as the house stays below 73 (i.e., its cold enough that I don't need the AC turned on), the tank stays at 78.

 

[magnetar68]

If he does not make it, I will wait 6 months when I do my second lighting replacement (I will do the first bulb replacement next month and then the second one next Feb). Actually, I am hoping to upgrade to high output CREE LEDs, but waiting for nanocustoms to offer this kit for the RSM 130D. I am also adding a 20 gallon sump with a refugium. This should help stabilize the tank even more and give me more water volume to work with.

I am really hoping he pulls through, however. Some days he looks like he is opening up more, but other days he doesn't. Yes, I realize they can take a while to die with their slow metabolism.

 

[wm23oh]

Your tank lacks lighting Intensity to keep that Anemone alive and so will those LEDS you are looking at. I didn't understand exactly what that meant until I had mine under PC lighting like you have yours. The tentacles where shrinking like yours and although mine didn't get that bad looking (I was just lucky) it was far from where mine is now under 4 55w T5 HO.

Please don't allow that Anemone to die in your tank. Take it back or upgrade your lights (NOW) and make sure you have enough intensity to keep it alive.

You have PC lighting. After reading the specs of the tank you have, it doesn't have nearly enough light output INTENSITY to keep the Anemone alive.

Red Sea MAX 130D | Specification is where I got my information from.

If you want to upgrade your lighting get at LEAST 4 55 W T5 HO NOT PC. Your PC lighting will have 1 power input spot and where it plugs in will have either :: or .... pins for the electric to enter it. A T5 55w HO unit will have : at each end.

The Anemone WILL die in your tank. There is no if's and's or but's about it unless you upgrade and looking at how bad your Anemone looks you need to upgrade NOW. If you simply can't afford this then return it or give it away like any responsible adult would.

James

 

[magnetar68]

Your tank lacks lighting Intensity to keep that Anemone alive and so will those LEDS you are looking at. I didn't understand exactly what that meant until I had mine under PC lighting like you have yours. The tentacles where shrinking like yours and although mine didn't get that bad looking (I was just lucky) it was far from where mine is now under 4 55w T5 HO.

Please don't allow that Anemone to die in your tank. Take it back or upgrade your lights (NOW) and make sure you have enough intensity to keep it alive.

You have PC lighting. After reading the specs of the tank you have, it doesn't have nearly enough light output INTENSITY to keep the Anemone alive.

Red Sea MAX 130D | Specification is where I got my information from.

If you want to upgrade your lighting get at LEAST 4 55 W T5 HO NOT PC. Your PC lighting will have 1 power input spot and where it plugs in will have either :: or .... pins for the electric to enter it. A T5 55w HO unit will have : at each end.

The Anemone WILL die in your tank. There is no if's and's or but's about it unless you upgrade and looking at how bad your Anemone looks you need to upgrade NOW. If you simply can't afford this then return it or give it away like any responsible adult would.

James

Thanks, James. I will take him back to the LFS today. Upgrading the Red Sea MAX lighting is a non trivial process.

Before I got him, I found several people with BTAs in this exact tank with the same lighting doing fine for long periods, so I am not sure why some would have enough and others would not. I guess different individual BTAs have different requirements?

I am curious how you determined that an LED upgrade will not be high intensity enough. Since you do not know the specs on the LED system, I assume you have determined that no amount of practical LED lighting is enough to raise an anemone. If this is true, then this is good to know. But I am curious where you got that information. I have found cases of people with anemones under high intensity LEDs (CREE XPG etc), but then again, I found examples of people being fine under PC lighting too and that did not work out for me.

 

[wm23oh]

The technology for LEDS is rapidly expanding and hopefully one day will equal that of other lighting sources. However for now it's the intensity issue. Just like your PC's don't put out as much light intensity as you need the LEDS will not. It's not about wattage and such but about true intensity.

Their are those even on this forum that are working to make LEDS work with our tanks and a few have succeeded where others have failed but with how new this is and the lack of proven time-frames it's too much of a gamble to spend all that money to possibly end up throwing it away IMO. If you plan to try LEDS I would only consider those who have proven to keep the animals you wish to keep for over 2 years. Most can keep an Anemone alive for a year but 2 is IMO showing they can maintain the creature.

When I speak of intensity another person put it this way when explaining it to me since I honestly didn't understand it myself. Imagine a 1,000 what MH bulb focused on a football field at night. It would be rather noticeable. This time imagine 1,000 people holding a LED that is claimed to equal that of a 1 Watt bulb and although you will see the group the intensity of that light does not go remotely as far as that of the MH bulb.
It is a subject that many debate and IMO the reality of LEDS is they will eventually be capable of working over our systems but for now it's not a proven technology especially for the money one must put into it.

The creatures of our sea's are special and unique and if we decide to buy them from a dealer we are risking there lives for our enjoyment. Why not give it the best possible chance to live instead of gambling.

I am no expert here so please understand that it took over a year for it to sink into my head about intensity and still is a little confusing to me but the fact is for now you just don't have the intensity to keep that beautiful animal alive.

Thank you for being a responsible reefer and make sure you spend your money wisely. If you are still tempted by LED's go for it but please make sure for your sake and the creatures you harbor that the LED fixture you choose has proven itself for over 2 years with the corals/anemone. Anything else is too much of a gamble.

Best wishes,

James

 

[cicchis0]

Water quality is and has been excellent and stable: temp 78 (on hot days when the house AC is at 73 it can rise to 79), pH 8.2 (there is a range here too with the photosynthesis during the day and can rise to ~8.3), SG 1.024, Ca 420, dkH 9-10 (this does vary somewhat I dose with SeaChem ReefFusion twice per week), Mg 1275, and NH3 N02 NO3 PO4 are all 0.00 according to API test kit.

While I read the "rule" of waiting for a tank to be 6 months or 12 months for an Anemone, I used very well cured LiveRock and LiveSand and my tank cycled very quickly -- less than few days (whereas my other tank which was a more standard setup took 5 weeks to got to 0 NH3 and NO2), so I figured that the rule was in general and that this "rule" could be adjusted by a few weeks for tanks that were started with significant initial bacteria colonies. My NH3, NO2, NO3, and PO4 has all been 0 since week 2.

Lighting is 2x55W PC T5 (it is a non-standard bulb that the Red Sea MAX 34g uses --my understanding is that is stronger than 2x65W PC lighting, probably closer to 2x75W equivalent?). I did some research and found many people having no issues with BTAs under this lighting. I originally put him higher in the tank. He first moved lower to a crack on the left side. He then moved out at night a few days later to the center, but as soon as the lights came on he moved down a little further to a spot in front and a little lower down. He has been there for a week.

I think flow is very good. I have the standard RSM pumps (2x150gph, and an additional Rio 200 PowerHead from the other side of the tank. It has a restricter on it so I can set the flow to a speed of my choosing. But it's mostly open at this point. I had a Koralia 2, but that seemed like too much flow).

The anem is about 3"-5" in size (depends how blown up he is). I have been feeding a 1/2" size piece of fresh scallop or frozen silverside 3 days per week (alternating). He eats it OK, but this is what the hermits were going after. I removed all of the hermits from the tank at this point.

I use RO water from the LFS. I sent my water to a professional testing service and everything was good. Silicas were a bit high and Potassium and Iodine were a very small amount on the low side, but I do dose Idine once per month now and have a Saffiert test kit for it and it seems OK now (although that test is iffy in IMO). I did this test before a water change not after it to see what values were at the end of the week (I do a 15% (5g) water change once per week using SeaChem Salinity Salt).

THe LFS has MH lighting, but this anem was in a darker part of the tank (not dark, just darker), and while they did not do a feed test, he did touch it and it quickly closed up. He also had to carefully remove the BTA from the rock since he was very well attached. They use a blunt rounded plastic tool for detaching them. I don't know what you are referring two in terms of a sticky test.

It sure does look sick, but I don't think the lighting is your problem. I have kept a BTA happy for about 2 years in a 30 gallon RSM 130, which has the same lighting as yours. I have recently added some supplementary Cree XR-E LEDs in the front part of the lid but this hasn't made any difference to the BTA, which is sitting close to the bottom of the tank (I chose the XR-Es over the XP-Gs because they have a tighter viewing angle of 90 degrees vs 125 degrees and I didn't want to use optics to focus the beams). If it was not getting enough light it would simply move higher in the tank.

Those amphipods will mostly be picking off dead and dying tissue from your ailing anemone. They probably are slightly adding to its misery but they wouldn't be the source of its illness.

Flow should not be an issue as long as you are not blasting the anemone.

Sea anemones are not able to regulate the concentration of their body fluids very well and I think your salinity might be a bit low, causing it to become stressed. Converting SG to salinity is not straightforward as it depends on the calibration standard temperature and the reference temperature of the instrument (see http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2002/chemistry.htm) and whether or not it is temperature compensating by design. Most refractometers are calibrated for 20 degrees C (68 F) and if you are using the swing arm hydrometer from the Red Sea starter kit, I think this is calibrated for 25 degrees C (77 F). There is some info on natural reef salinity levels at Aquarium Frontiers On-Line: November 1997: Feature and I aim for a salinity of around 35.5 ppm.

BTW, I don't target feed my BTA because it seems to pick enough food out of the current when I feed the fish.

Good luck.

 

[magnetar68]

Thanks again, James. BTW, I did take anem back to store yesterday, and they were hopeful the little guy will pull through.

I will do some reading to understand intensity better, but I agree with your point that I need to define long-term as 2 years and find enough priors to use it as a datum for acceptability. This was likely the error I made in researching whether a anemone would live under my stock RSM lighting: while I found people saying that anems were fine under this lighting, I did not scrutinize the definition of long-term survivability.

I have taken a lot of physics in my life, so I am familiar with some of the complexities of measuring light including: the total energy emitted at the source, the total perceived light power emitted at the source (as opposed to heat and other non illuminating radiation), and the total perceived light power striking some area some distance away form the source. For aquaria, my understanding is that PAR is most important since it measures the wavelengths of energy useful for photosynthesis. I assume that this is true for anems as well as corals (although the clades of zooxanthellae, pigments, and other aspects can be different, so a PUR measurement for the animal in question would be ideal). I think, however, that a lot of the first generation LED systems based on a large number of low powered LEDs have left people with an incorrect notion of their capability. The high powered LEDs from CREE and others really changed the landscape. Here a comparison of PAR radiation for a 250W metal halide driven by an HQI ballast and a 75W high output LED system (Sanjay Joshi's work at the advanced aquarist).

It shows that over the same 18"x18" surface 24" from the light, that high power LEDs offer higher PAR in the center, but the metal halide offers higher PAR out to the edge. So this particular LED fixture offers 60-80 PAR out to the 12"x12" surface whereas the metal halides get this same PAR out to 18"x18". Different optics on the LEDs can change this spread, but overall the high-output LEDs have much higher "intensities" than the first-generation LED lights. While I guess there could be issues with the specific wavelengths required for anenome zooxanthellae clades versus the spectrums of the LED lights, I don't see intensity being an issue.

 

[wm23oh]

I have little to no experience with LEDs and do not suggest my opinion is better than yours. However this is my opinion on LEDs.

The new LEDs offer new hope but is still a new technology. Just like PCs offered a new way to save money and have corals live under them LEDs are no different. PC's have there place but IMO it's not over a SW Reef tank because they lack the intensity. Could this be corrected with the correct optics? Maybe? but I have no experience with this so I can't even give you an honest opinion.

One wonders if corals and anemones may be burned by the intensity of the fine point of light released from the center of the LED. Think of a magnifying glass and your local ant. The technology hasn't been fine tuned and will more than likely cause losses and lots of odd things to occur. I believe in the future when they get the lenses fine tuned that LEDs will be the way most will go but still fear their intensity will just not be enough.

Ultimately I've read many articles and viewed many suggestions about the new LED's but just like your tank. Timing is everything. IMO now is not the right time unless you have the money to spend and the willingness to upgrade right away if you start seeing issues. I can't foresee the issues for you since I do not have LEDs but again if you have the money and can upgrade a second time to prevent any losses it's your dime. I highly suggest not buying a kit from a dealer but buying from people on these forums that can show proof of their experience.

I just respectfully ask that you not try this with an Anemone until you see that everything else is flourishing. BTW I had even thought about making a LED fixture however I lack the experience with the above concerns on how to fix these issues so I'm leaving it to the experts.

I hope to one day use LEDs over my tank and honestly am excited that the technologies are getting better. I just hope it gets better than just good enough.

Best wishes in whatever you decide.

James

 

[magnetar68]

You main point is clear and I agree. Don't put animals in/under new technology until you know whether they will thrive with it. I also appreciate your qualifier that you need to limit your contribution to the LED debate since this is not an area of expertise for you. I am not an expert either, but I do have a solid background in the underlying physics, so here some some things I think are interesting on the topic.

The new LEDs offer new hope but is still a new technology. Just like PCs offered a new way to save money and have corals live under them LEDs are no different. PC's have there place but IMO it's not over a SW Reef tank because they lack the intensity. Could this be corrected with the correct optics? Maybe? but I have no experience with this so I can't even give you an honest opinion.

When people talk about intensity it can mean different things, but for aquaria, the most relevant measure is the number of photons passing through a surface each second. You will often see this quoted as micromols per square meter per second (where a mol is 6.023x10^23 photons). Furthermore, we want these photons to have wavelengths (specific quanta of energy) usable by the zooxanthellae to convert CO2 and Water into sugar and oxygen. Different technologies are able to produce different numbers of photons at different wavelengths. Each therefore has a maximum intensity it can produce at a given wattage. With LEDs this light comes from a small surface area on a diode, so optics can be used to spread out this (near) point source of light. But the optics themselves don't increase the overall intensity of light, just the insensity at various points on a surface some distance from the emitter.

PCs are very different since they use the excitation of a gas in a tube to emit photons. Reflectors will increase the number of photons going in a certain direction and optics could be used to focus light at a certain area and thus have more photons hit that area per second. However, there is a practical limit to how many bulbs can be put into a given package and then focused. PC bulbs need a lot of volume of gas in a certain shaped container to be efficient. The end result is something that lends itself to reflectors but does not lend itself to optics. LEDs on the other hand with their near point source, lend themselves to optics that can spread out the light to a more useful area. BTW, then you add certain rare earth metals to the gas in a PC light and put it under pressure with a little more voltage you get more photons with a little different makeup of wavelengths. They call this metal halide lighting.

One wonders if corals and anemones may be burned by the intensity of the fine point of light released from the center of the LED. Think of a magnifying glass and your local ant.

The magnifying glass analogy is extreme here. While I understand your point, and absolutely, animals can get too much light for their clade(s) of zooxanthellea, the difference between peak outputs are only 80 par and this is at a very small point. More practically, the difference is just 40 PAR or so. This is a small difference. The optics on LEDs spread out the light rather than focus it the way a magnifying glass does. I realize you know this, but the benefit of other readers I did not want to leave them with the impression that and LED and its optics produce the intense focusing as a magnifying glass.

I highly suggest not buying a kit from a dealer but buying from people on these forums that can show proof of their experience.

I think the relevant litmus test is don't buy an unproven technology regardless of whether it comes from a vendor or an individual. The proof is in the results. Although it's obvious that somebody will need to take one of these animals and experiment on it -- but given my lack of experience with them, it's not going to be me. If someone builds their own lighting or buys it from a vendor, the experiment is an experiment an and animal will be used to prove it works. But with reasonable measurements of PAR and the spectral signature of the lighting, one can have a high degree of confidence the animal will not be sacrificed. This is a more scientific approach to question.