Patrick's FRESHWATER Red Sea C-250

[Pat24601]

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm in the process of converting my Red Sea C-250 to a planted tank. While there are always many reasons to do such a thing, my primary one was that I was raised on freshwater tanks.

When I was little in our 3 bedroom house, there was one room for my mom and dad, one room for my sister and I to share, and one room for my Dad's fish. He loved fish and I want to pass along that tradition to my kids.

So, I had always told myself I would set up a separate tank for freshwater when my kids were 3. Well, it turns out twin 3 year old boys don't leave a lot of time for maintaining two tanks. So, after more emotional soul searching than one would think, I decided the saltwater has to go and the freshwater is going to be built.

This actually was not a spur of the moment decision for me. I kind of knew this was coming for a long time. I first asked @DaveK for help thinking this through two years ago!

Obviously, this forum isn't a freshwater forum, although we have a small section for that. But, it's the best Red Sea forum that exists and we have a ton of lurkers even when we don't have a ton of posts. So, I thought my experiences in converting might help anyone else that decides to do what I'm trying to...assuming it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, but even that will be educational.

The topics I'm hoping to cover off the bat are:
* Why stick with the C-250 rather than get a new tank?
* How am I planning to handle lighting?
* Filtration?
* Substrate?


I plan to write up the options I seriously considered for all of those as my kids give me time and provide updates for how it went.

Oh, the other part of the fun is I really know nothing about freshwater. My experience was as a kid long ago and we didn't do planted tanks. So, lots to learn!

Today is clean up day. Oh the Joy.

 

[Pat24601]

Since I know empty tanks are exciting...

 

[melvis]

As mentioned before Pat, good luck with your new (kind of) freshwater adventure. Will be following along to see how you convert the RSM C250 - sounds extremely interesting!

 

[Pat24601]

So, why stick with the C-250? It's clearly overkill for a freshwater tank and in some ways it's a lot more of a pain to convert than buy a new tank set up for freshwater.

The real reason is I just love the aesthetics of the C-250 tank. I'm kind of bummed Red Sea discontinued it because I can't find anything else that fits my preference as well from overall size, the sleek stand, the height of the stand (it was surprising his much this was difficult to find), the solid closed hood. It just has just about everything I want in terms of aesthetics and everything else I looked at didn't quite work for me as well.

Also, it's been rock solid for me performance wise. So, I hate to give that up for something unknown.

Additionally, and I can't overstate this enough, I already have it and it's there in my living room in the exact spot I want it already. That counts for a lot. To switch to freshwater, I didn't have to move a thing. Just clean it up, run a garden hose to fill it up with freshwater and I'm done.

So, really, its as simple as that. I looked around pretty hard and I couldn't find anything I liked better. Plus, I don't have to move around big heavy aquariums to make the switch.

For many people, I assume saving money would be a factor too. I mean, I already own it, so that's a plus.

 

[Pat24601]

I'm still torn on the lightning. I'll outline the options I thought of, but I think I'm going to go with the most expensive option when I really don't have to because I'm kind of silly. Hope it works.

This is, by far, the biggest obstacle I've been thinking through.

The options as I've thought of them so far are:
1) Just keep the lights I have (Steves LEDs 14,000k) and turn down the blues. I've had multiple people tell me they think that will work fine. If I had any sense, this is at least the way I'd start out and see. I don't have any sense, so it's probably not want I'm going to do.

2) Get a new hood from Red Sea and use T5s. If I hadn't already switched to LEDs, this would be by far the easiest way to go. As I understand it, I could replace the 6 T5s with 2 or 3 T5s more suited to freshwater and be good to go. In my case, because I tore the T5s out if my hood to do LEDs, I'd need a new hood. That said, I want LEDs, not T5s. So, I probably wouldn't go this route anyway. At least, not for long. But, if you haven't done a LED conversion to your hood and like T5s, this seems like a super easy way to go.

3) Go with an open hood look and get freshwater LEDs. That would probably involve:
A)buying a filtration cover for the back from InTank (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M7QZOTT/?tag=reefsanc-20)
B) Buying a DIY screen mesh kit from BRS (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/diy-aquarium-screen-top-kits-1-8-netting.html)
C) Buying some planted tank appropriate LEDs (maybe this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QVI5KDW/?tag=reefsanc-20) or this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U0HMWLI/?tag=reefsanc-20)

4) Buy a new batch of Steves LEDs customized for freshwater. I talked to Jeff at Steves and he recommended a configuration with LEDs that range from 4,000k to 7,500k with some Royal Blues. He also said they have done this several times.

So, I actually like and considered all of these options, but what I think I'm going to go with is the Steves LEDs option. Yes, it's expensive, but it gets me (I hope) everything I want. I really would have been fine with any of the options though.

 

[cracker]

Look forward to some pics. I love freshwater tanks also !

 

[Pat24601]

Look forward to some pics. I love freshwater tanks also !

Thanks, man! I'll get there.

 

[Pat24601]

Filtration for mechanical, chemical, and bio media.

I can think of 3 options:
1) Hang on Back, except I took a closer look and I'm not sure it would fit through the hole in the rear of the hood. Maybe, but it seems very tight even it does. So, no. Even though I understand they are super easy to maintain.

2) Just use current sump and media rack. I've received mixed opinions on if this would really be enough. I'm not sure. It would obviously be the easiest. Just lob some filter floss, purigen, and seachem matrix in the media rack and call it a day.

3) Cannister filter. I think this fits fine and it feels like the "safest" way to go as it truly forces the water through the media. The rear sump makes this awkward. Basically, I'll have to install it in the sump. Probably where the skimmer is. It's a bit weird, but I think it will work. Just a lot of pumps moving water around a sump I'm not really using. Feels inefficient.

I debated back and forth between just trying my normal media rack and seeing if it does well enough or using a cannister. Right this second, I'm leaning towards a cannister just to be sure I get off on the right foot with having proper filtration.

 

[Pat24601]

Substrate:

This is where I feel confused and the most likely to make a decision I regret later.

I've read a lot of articles about layering substrate such as first dirt then gravel, using eco-complete, using lava rock, and just using good old fashion inert sand, which (apparently) would either limit the plants you can have or require a more complex path to get them nutrients.

The layering is just more complexity than I feel ready for. Plus, I'm having trouble getting past the idea of putting dirt in a tank even though I totally get it intellectually.

I actually like the look of the inert sand the best. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007R55QUU/?tag=reefsanc-20).

So, I may go that route, but I'm not sure what the consequences really are, I'll probably find out the hard way.

 

[DaveK]

When your doing a project like this, make the first preference to go with what you have. You can always upgrade it later. No need to spend money where you don't need it.

In the specific areas of filtration and lighting, again go with what you have to start with. Don't feel you need to upgrade everything in sight. Do the upgrade only when you really have something to gain.

On substrata. people have used everything from traditional aquarium gravel to a layer of dirt covered by other substrata, to the out of sight expensive ADA aquasoil and power sand. For a first time out with planted tanks, I recommend you go with Eco Complete, either the black or the red. It's one of the few media that actually doesn't require a ton of washing before use. It's generally available, and not that expensive. The sand your looking at is ok, but read the reviews. That sand is a pain in the neck to wash.

Two other areas to consider. For best results plants need to be fed.

Most of the prepackaged fertilizer additives sold in you LFS are very limited, and expensive. Go with dry fertilizers and make your own stock solutions and/or root tabs. You'll likely need both. Some plants especially crypts and swords are heavy root feeders, so you'll need to fertilize the substrata. Other plants such as stem plants get their nutrients from the water.

Here is one source for dry ferts that I have used. (offsite) - http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/
For doing measurements, you'll also need a small gram scale. Get one that can measure to .01 grams. If you do a search on Amazon you'll find a ton of them and at a very modest price.

For root tabs, you can either get them premade or make your own using Osmacote Plus and bulk empty 00 size gelatin capsules.

Since you saved all that money by not upgrading some things, consider adding pressurized CO2 to really make your plants go and keep algae down. It's fairly expensive to set up initially because you need a CO2 tank, and regulator, plus a few others parts, but once you have it, it is very inexpensive to run and all you need to do is swap out the CO2 tank for a full one a couple of times a year at a cost of about $20. I didn't have one for years, always considering it too expensive, but once I got it, I much say that it makes a big difference.

 

[Pat24601]

When your doing a project like this, make the first preference to go with what you have. You can always upgrade it later. No need to spend money where you don't need it.

In the specific areas of filtration and lighting, again go with what you have to start with. Don't feel you need to upgrade everything in sight. Do the upgrade only when you really have something to gain.

On substrata. people have used everything from traditional aquarium gravel to a layer of dirt covered by other substrata, to the out of sight expensive ADA aquasoil and power sand. For a first time out with planted tanks, I recommend you go with Eco Complete, either the black or the red. It's one of the few media that actually doesn't require a ton of washing before use. It's generally available, and not that expensive. The sand your looking at is ok, but read the reviews. That sand is a pain in the neck to wash.

Two other areas to consider. For best results plants need to be fed.

Most of the prepackaged fertilizer additives sold in you LFS are very limited, and expensive. Go with dry fertilizers and make your own stock solutions and/or root tabs. You'll likely need both. Some plants especially crypts and swords are heavy root feeders, so you'll need to fertilize the substrata. Other plants such as stem plants get their nutrients from the water.

Here is one source for dry ferts that I have used. (offsite) - http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/
For doing measurements, you'll also need a small gram scale. Get one that can measure to .01 grams. If you do a search on Amazon you'll find a ton of them and at a very modest price.

For root tabs, you can either get them premade or make your own using Osmacote Plus and bulk empty 00 size gelatin capsules.

Since you saved all that money by not upgrading some things, consider adding pressurized CO2 to really make your plants go and keep algae down. It's fairly expensive to set up initially because you need a CO2 tank, and regulator, plus a few others parts, but once you have it, it is very inexpensive to run and all you need to do is swap out the CO2 tank for a full one a couple of times a year at a cost of about $20. I didn't have one for years, always considering it too expensive, but once I got it, I much say that it makes a big difference.

Excellent detailed advice, as always. Thanks so much!

 

[Pat24601]

So, I got my scape done, what do you think?

OK, obviously I kid. My twin 3 year old twin boys were very excited to help. They helped me wash the slate and get everything in the tank. It's a lot of fun, but very slow. So, all I was really trying to do was shove some stuff in the tank and start to get a sense of dimensions.

But, I can see what I was planning (kind of a rocky looking mound on the left and a more forestry look on the right), isn't going to work out with what I got. The wood is bigger than I thought and the slate smaller (I think). I'll have to figure out what to do about that...someday. I never know how long that will take in my household.

 

[DaveK]

Depending on how your going to plant your tank, you may want a lot less rock. Consider that every rock you place flat like that reduces the area for plants.

If your using the rock on the driftwood to hold the driftwood down, consider attaching the rock to the bottom of the driftwood. Driftwood makes a great place to attach plants like java fern and java moss.

 

[Pat24601]

Depending on how your going to plant your tank, you may want a lot less rock. Consider that every rock you place flat like that reduces the area for plants.

If your using the rock on the driftwood to hold the driftwood down, consider attaching the rock to the bottom of the driftwood. Driftwood makes a great place to attach plants like java fern and java moss.

Both good points. I put the rock in more as a placeholder. I had really wanted slate and was going to build kind of slate mountain out of it as I had seen on some other tanks, but really I don't have the right pieces and it doesn't look right at all, obviously. Now, I'm not even sure if I'm going to switch to a much simpler single rock I saw at my LFS.

On the driftwood, I had seen advice about putting the slate on the bottom, but I don't quite understand the logic. I thought I just took the slate off once the driftwood was waterlogged. So, what's the logic? Does it take a really long time for driftwood to waterlog? Does it just look good? I'm definitely not opposed to doing it, I just couldn't find any thread last night to tie the driftwood to the slate.

 

[Pat24601]

As mentioned before Pat, good luck with your new (kind of) freshwater adventure. Will be following along to see how you convert the RSM C250 - sounds extremely interesting!

It's always fun to set these things up, but I clearly have no idea what I'm doing. On the plus side, it's way cheaper than saltwater. I keep being shocked at the prices...in a good way.

 

[Oxylebius]

I scrolled through this very fast, so sorry if you already mentioned it, but, what kind of fish? I like cichlids and discus.

 

[Pat24601]

I scrolled through this very fast, so sorry if you already mentioned it, but, what kind of fish? I like cichlids and discus.

I'm planning on discus, but I'm still thinking it through. I'd love any thoughts!

 

[Pat24601]

With dragonstone instead of slate. Not positioned right yet, but I think I like this better. Also, probably need to do what @DaveK says and get my driftwood to lose its tophat. I thought it would be waterlogged pretty quickly. I'll need to search how long that takes.

 

[DaveK]

I'm planning on discus, but I'm still thinking it through. I'd love any thoughts!

Think twice before you get involved with planted discus tanks. Discus have fairly high temp requirements and this can be incompatible with some species of plants.

Also be prepared to spend quite a but of time on the tank. Discus are a lot of work. One good thing though, you already have an RO unit for making water discus love, but you will need to add GH and KH builders.

I'm not saying don't do this, it's quite doable, just make sure discus are for you.

 

[DaveK]

... On the driftwood, I had seen advice about putting the slate on the bottom, but I don't quite understand the logic. ...

What you do is use a masonry drill and drill a hole or two in the slate. Then use either nylon cable ties or stainless steel screws to connect the slate to the driftwood.