Oxy's RSM250

Oxylebius

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Here are photos:







You can see it is the blue monti that is not extending polyps in these photos.
 
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Oxylebius

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Thanks Dom. The blue monti is looking worse for wear still. Not sure how long it can survive w/closed polyps. Now the other blue monties in other areas of the tank are starting to close up also. I haven't completely ruled out a possible predator, but I haven't been able to see anything at night munching on them (nudi, pods, worms, etc.). And why is it only the blue monti being affected and not the other monties in the tank? Just can't figure this one out. I move the gsp over to the other side of the tank (next to the other gsp). And still no polyp extension. Not ready to send the gsp off to the lfs yet, but may have to this weekend......

Perhaps it is the new red/pink chalice (which is below the blue monti also) that is causing the problem? Circled in photo.

 

Mrsalt

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Check your potassium, as I think that might effect "blue corals" and the gsp has plenty of purple so might have sucked up the available amount?
It's a guess but might be worth looking into?
 

Mrsalt

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Typical me to suggest that test then lol it's going to bug you now till you get one - sorry
 

Wrangy

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Has it had any tissue deterioration since the polyps have closed up?
Any recent changes to the tank of late? New additives, bulb changes, dosing or supplement volume changes, parameter variations or anything like that?? From everything I've come across it seems that blues are usually the most sensitive for some reason, no idea why but a large portion of blue sps make it very difficult for us to keep them happy! My experience agrees with it too, my blue (even blue tipped) sps are certainly the most finicky in my tank.

As Alan has suggested, it might be a good idea to have a look at your potassium although I suspect it wouldn't be that as you haven't been testing it and everything has been happy till this one. A super sudden change like that would only come about with the additions of new corals or the tanks nutrients becoming much lower suddenly as potassium only starts to have a strong effect in a reef tank once lower nutrient levels are reached.
It could be the warfare with the chalice but if it were that I would suspect the yellow monti to the left of it would be doing a heck of a lot worse as it's much closer to the chalice.

I'd start off trying to see if anything has changed recently, say a month before this started to happen and go from there. See if any others are looking effected or in a similar state as that may help to identify what it is. I'd also have a check of the tank late at night, 3 hours after the lights are off to see if there's any PE or pests annoying it and if not then, I'm not sure if you're feeding anything for your sps, but I'd add some food after lights out to try and entice some PE after lights out and work backwards from there :)

Hopefully some of this helps and we can work out what it may be!!
 

Wrangy

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I'd definitely be moving the gsp's to a location reasonably out of the way of flow so that they're not getting sps flow onto them (causing an aggressive reaction) and then them not flowing off into the rest of the tank causing the sps to get annoyed by them. Worth a try even though it might be a bit harder to achieve but it could help and may mean you won't have to be rid of them.
 

Oxylebius

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Wrangy - still has all its tissue, except for the areas where I broke off branches. Most polyps are closed up, some are partially closed up. No changes in maintenance, 4 gallons weekly water change, no supplements, lights were changed in March, replaced w/same exact bulbs as before which were 7 months old (3 T5HOs at beginning of month and the other 3 at end of month).

Here are the changes that occurred and what has been added:

April 11th - Added new frags to tank
Acropora
Pink Sniper (A. selago)
Moonbean (A. yongei)
Limelight green slimer (A. yongei)
Purple rain
Stylophora
ORA Green
Cotton Candy
Tyree Rainbow
Echinophyllia
Red Firestone Chalice
Pink Mink Chalice

Over the following week slowly moved the new frags up from sand bed. On left side of tank, moved the large green monti digi from the rocks to the sand bed (it is on a flat piece of rock you can see in pic above) to allow current to newly placed acros higher up on the rocks, this monti does fine at lower light levels and is still doing well. Placed the firestone chalice at the base of the rock under blue monti digi. Ended up breaking off two large branches of the blue monti digi while digging into tank. Now it looks a little lop-sided. All seemed well in the tank. No issue w/Ca, Mg, KH levels, I've been monitoring to see if the extra sps would start to suck them up. Didn't think to monitor K or other trace elements, I figured the weekly water changes would cover those.

Then on April 25th I received these two corals from DianaKay.
Duncanopsammia - Giant Green Polyp Duncan (D. axifuga)
Briareum- Green Star Polyps (B. violacea/violaceum)

The gsp was a baseball sized mound and I placed in on the right side of tank as you can see in the photos above. After a couple of weeks it was large soft ball sized, it grew really fast. Around the weekend of May 10th I split the gsp into two and placed one in the center of the tank as you see in the photos above. The end of last week the blue monti digi was not extending many of its polyps. Last Friday I tested params, still fine on Mg, Ca & KH, did a 4 gallon water change and added a bag of new carbon to tank. Sunday I moved the gsp back to the right side of tank. Today I noticed the other three little blue monti digis (frags from the larger parent) are not extending polyps now as well.

All the new corals are still alive today. Only my older blue monti digi is not happy right now.

Now there were current changes by moving the large green monti, but I don't think that is the issue as these monti digis are pretty forgiving w/different current levels (I have some growing in size under overhangs w/little current). The addition of a predator may be the problem, but only one type of monti digi is being bothered and I have three different ones (blue, green and orange). Also been looking at night and not seeing nudi, pods, worms or eggs (yet). The placement of the chalice may be an issue, but it took a month for the blue to become unhappy if that was the case. Once the gsp was moved near the blue it became unhappy the following week. But, there also may be the potassium issue that I wasn't monitoring levels of so maybe that is creating complications? Remember I'm only changing out 4 gallons weekly, maybe this isn't enough to replenish the potassium?

So Thoughts?
 

Mrsalt

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If you do go get a potassium test go for the new salifert. It's a piece of cake to use, and unlike the the Red Sea it does not take half you life to get a result! Also its highly regarded in the zeo community at the moment for its easy to see end point. HTH
 

Wrangy

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Geez I love getting a solid reply with info about everything!!! So much better than some of the half-hearted efforts sometimes :p lol

From everything I've read I would say that you shouldn't be worrying too much about the potassium levels in the tank as you've had it running for so long without this kind of issue before. The other thing too is if it was potassium, the colour of the monti would have changed due to the lack of it but I doubt that it would effect the polyps in any way. Has there been any colouration changes on it or any of your other monti's or sps??

Because it's just the polyps reacting my thoughts lean towards a chemical warfare, food or pest being the issue here. I'm not sure if you feed anything specifically for you sps but it could be a good way to entice the polyps back out if we can't find a solution :)
I definitely think it's the gsp that's caused this or something like that but it is odd that only the one monti has been effected. Are all of your blue monti's reacting the same way or just the one?? From the photo the PE isn't too bad, it's unhappy but it's also not completely closed up, has it gotten any worse since moving the gsp??
 

Mrsalt

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Running carbon like you have should have eliminated allopathy, and as wrangy righty says potassium may not be the cause. Have a good look for any nudibranhes as I had them on a monti confusor in my 130 and they really annoyed the coral. Trouble is if you have them then the coral is likey to have eggs underneath which are diddy. I had to remove the coral and scrub them eggs off. But I'm sure its something less painful.
 

Oxylebius

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Geez I love getting a solid reply with info about everything!!! So much better than some of the half-hearted efforts sometimes :p lol

From everything I've read I would say that you shouldn't be worrying too much about the potassium levels in the tank as you've had it running for so long without this kind of issue before. The other thing too is if it was potassium, the colour of the monti would have changed due to the lack of it but I doubt that it would effect the polyps in any way. Has there been any colouration changes on it or any of your other monti's or sps??

I know it was a long response, but in it I mentioned that my other blue monti digis began showing signs of closing up also, noticed it yesterday (these were frags from the larger parent coral that I've been talking about). It is hard to tell a lack of color on the blue monti, the flesh is tanish and the polyps light blue with a little fluorescence, this is normal color for them. The rainbow stylo isn't as dark in color as it had been, it is suppose to have darker blue polyps and they are light blue, but this is a new frag and they always change color a little under new lights in a new system, plus it is acclimating to a new location as well, so I'm not sure if it is any indication of lack of potassium in the tank or not. Everything else looks normal. They always color up nicely after being feed and after a water change and by 4 days later (or so) they look a little less colorful, but I think I'm the only one who would notice it.

Because it's just the polyps reacting my thoughts lean towards a chemical warfare, food or pest being the issue here. I'm not sure if you feed anything specifically for you sps but it could be a good way to entice the polyps back out if we can't find a solution :)
I definitely think it's the gsp that's caused this or something like that but it is odd that only the one monti has been effected. Are all of your blue monti's reacting the same way or just the one?? From the photo the PE isn't too bad, it's unhappy but it's also not completely closed up, has it gotten any worse since moving the gsp??

I feed the sps once a week a mixture of three little fishes marine snow, phytoplex, and a cube of frozen rotifers. I've been feeding them from the beginning two years ago.

All of the blue montie digis are still partially closed up today (large one and smaller ones). Perhaps not as bad as it has been though. The smaller ones in the tank are also still partially closed up as well. None of the other corals are closed up. Shoot, the weird thing is that I'm bringing back the Yellow Scroll Turbinaria from pg 4 of this thread. It was down to one alive polyp w/a little pink flesh around it and now a third of it is alive and recovering.
Here are today's photos:



 

Wrangy

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I thought I'd read you'd said the frags and others reacted the same but morning brain couldn't find it haha and as soon as I posted I saw your feeding schedule in the other thread haha.

Considering how they look, I wouldn't change anything and give it a week or so and see what happens :) something might have annoyed them like the new coral additions and them getting used to another foreign 'scent' of the new corals. Test you potassium but I would worry all too much about about it just yet unless it's really low, a touch up might do well :)

That's awesome about the tubinaria too! Gotta love it when corals bounce back like that. It just further concretes how amazing they truly are :yup:
 

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
Have a good look for any nudibranhes as I had them on a monti confusor in my 130 and they really annoyed the coral. Trouble is if you have them then the coral is likey to have eggs underneath which are diddy. I had to remove the coral and scrub them eggs off. But I'm sure its something less painful.

I've been looking, I've been looking - pulling a DianaKay and using a magnifying glass :yup:
 

Oxylebius

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Blue monti digi update: I moved the gsp, moved the large green monti digi off the sand and back up on the rockscape and I also increased the amt of water I'm changing weekly. I started replacing ~8 gallons of water a week w/water changes instead of 4 gallons. The blue monti digi has come back. Not, sure if it was the gsp, change in current, or more water changes, but the combo of this has worked out well. Never did see any predators.

The potassium levels check out, a little low ~390, but that seems w/in range and w/weekly water changes seems fine. With all the new corals in the tank the weekly water params have been changing on Alk, Ca, and Mg. I will need to start dosing very soon. Until that happens I may have to do water changes twice a week.

I also just got a new batch of corals in that include another birds nest, favia, favite, superman, another sunset, another monti cap, and another tubinaria.
 

Wrangy

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Awesome to hear the blue monti is back :)
The potassium is fine too, you shouldn't have any problems due to that and with the water changes I doubt it will cause any issues.

Awesome, can't wait to see some pics of the new corals!!
 

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
Dom, the blue monti polyps are out, so it seems happy, but the color isn't back like it was. After three water changes this past week it was looking really good. But, as the days wear on it doesn't hold its blue color, it grays out. The rainbow stylo still hasn't shown it's purple/blue color yet either, it is one of the new ones I got in last month. I thought it needed to acclimate and then it would color-up, but I'm still waiting on that to happen. I actually split the frag and place it in two locations thinking perhaps I had placed the initial one in too much light. So I will now have to see what happens.

Been reading up on potassium and Alan does have a point with potassium and blues in corals. I've got a feeling that water changes may not continue to be enough, at least I can monitor it now. Thanks Alan for pointing that out!

What I NEED to do is keep my hands out of the tank from now on! Monitor params and do water changes. Just let the corals fend for themselves w/light and current - stop moving them around!

I still haven't gotten rid of the gsp. It is still sitting and growing larger everyday on the right side of the tank. Anyone in the DC area want the gsp? Otherwise, I would have to plan to go across the city to one of two lfs. I haven't been motivated to do so yet (~45 min to over an hour drive each way to get to either one of them).

Here is an interesting article I've found about potassium, if you are interested. Guide of sps coral coloration make them more vivid bright: http://reefbuilders.com/2008/09/03/guide-of-sps-coral-coloration-make-them-more-vivid-bright/
 

Wrangy

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A bit of potassium and some time without disturbance will probably do wonders! :)
I would imagine that getting the gsp out will probably help too

Love the article too :)
 
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