Newbies, a little something on cycling/breaking in a new reef tank.

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prow

Well-Known Member
Ok so does this mean you have a lot of anaerobic die off when you gravel vac?
gravel? not much surface area for anaerobic bacteria to grow on with gravel, so no worries about anaerobic die off. with gravel or CC detritus collects and needs manuall removal (vac). now if you meant a deep sandbed (DSB) 3"-6+" depending on grain size, then yes die off will occur. with a DSB, if you only vac the top 1/2" it should be fine, dont go any deeper than that though. i would also only vac small sections off the top layer of the sandbed at a time. now if your talking about a short sandbed (under 3") then frequent vac maybe needed.
 

Kayla

New Member
I just have a quick question. I have been reading this...over and over. I dont want to miss something or mess up somewhere down the line. ok, question is, with my test kit, I can test NH3, NO2, NO3...I know from chemistry class, many many years ago, that NH2 is a form of nitrite. Should I be testing NH2 as well? Please dont think I am ignorant for asking this.
 

prow

Well-Known Member
NH2 is actually a amidogen,...its a amino group in organic chem/ and a amino ion in inorganic chem. its a compound radical and is not present in a seperate state. it readily reacts with H+(NH2 + H -> NH +H2) or OH-(NH2 + OH -> NH +H2O) ph depending. basically its ammonia that losses a H+ in water resulting in H3O+ and NH2, which then reacts with H+ or OH- (which ever has the greater concentration). it also reacts with other things but thats the basics.

so to answer your question, no, you dont need to test for it:)
 

tubedood

Member
Yikes am I already messing up? I left in the sponge/foam filter in my aquapod. And have the lights on... No added biological stuff, just an empty 12 gallon tank trying to get to a good SG reading. Im using the charcoal bag in the second slot just to clean out anything my dirty hands added ( I have well water and used Instant Ocean). Appreciate any help in my first attempt at saltwater and reef. Thanks,
~Dale
 

prow

Well-Known Member
hi proslaviy, welcome to RS. to send a pm just click on the name of who you want to pm and you will see a pull down menu, click send pm.
 

my name is mike

New Member
First, thanks for the amazing post - everything else i've read just scratches the surface and doesn't provide a way to grasp the deeper meaning and reason for every step.

I do have one question for my specific set up - i was planning on going for a 50/50 or 40/60 mix of LR to base rock. The reason being, i found some fantastic live rock at my lfs. It is completely covered in bright pink/purple coraline and i would like to give my tank a good jump start in that department. One because i like the look and two because i hear the coraline resists the unwanted forms of algae. Since the rock is so covered with coraline and in their display tanks (not some gross tub) i figure it is pretty cured.

Now to my question. If i do go this route, how should I approach the lighting? Coraline needs light to survive, but so do the unwanted forms of algae. Everything here says to keep it in black out mode until a good bit of anaerobic bac has been established. Will the LR (assuming it is somewhat cycled be able to provide that, and if not, how long can the coraline survive without lighting?

My gut tells me that with proper skimming, carbon, flow and water changes I can ramp up the lighting sooner (after a week or two), therefore saving that beautiful coraline.

Thanks again for the post, i now feel like i have a a shot at this daunting hobby.
 

prow

Well-Known Member
First, thanks for the amazing post - everything else i've read just scratches the surface and doesn't provide a way to grasp the deeper meaning and reason for every step.
thanks, much appreciated.

Now to my question. If i do go this route, how should I approach the lighting? Coraline needs light to survive, but so do the unwanted forms of algae. Everything here says to keep it in black out mode until a good bit of anaerobic bac has been established. Will the LR (assuming it is somewhat cycled be able to provide that, and if not, how long can the coraline survive without lighting?
what i would do is put the base rock in, use a couple pieces of LR and a deli shrimp then let it cycle in the dark for about a month, normal setup like posted. then get your chemistry balanced and with in normal limits, namely; Ca+/Alk/ph, as NH3/NO2 should be at zero and NO3 should under 10 by this time. then keep these water parameters stable for a couple weeks before adding the LR(with coraline). after adding the LR test the water the next day and see where you are at. if NH3/NO2 and NO3 is under control then add a deli shrimp to see if you get a spike in NH3, if no spike your good to go with a CUC and cycling in the lights or perhaps a small hardy fish. if not a mini cycle may occur, but it will be short lived and most of the coraline should survive.

My gut tells me that with proper skimming, carbon, flow and water changes I can ramp up the lighting sooner (after a week or two), therefore saving that beautiful coraline.
kinda, if you just wanted to cycle the tank then yeah, you would just need to add all the rock at the same time and cycle it with just LR. but the deal here is you want to keep the coraline and for that you need stable water parameters. something that with all the metobolic reactions and chemistry balancing going on, it would be more than just a challenge while cycling a new tank. if you added the rock all at once your cycle would be shorter but dieing coraline would part of the fuel. using lighting at first will also allow bad algae, during the cycle, to grow on the base rock and cover the dieing coraline. if you could keep the water ph stable aswell as Ca+ and alk while keeping phos/silicates/NH3/NO3 ect.. down during the cycle its possible little coraline would be lost. you really need a stabel tank to grow coraline and a cycling tank is not stable. for keeping the coraline its more about water parameters then lighting...if you do want to add all the rock at once, count on much of the coraline dieing, but there will be spores ready to grow when tank conditions permit it...

Thanks again for the post, i now feel like i have a a shot at this daunting hobby.
its not as bad as it seems. once you get things setup its mainly good husbandry(patterns). but there is no dout that learning curve we all have to go through.
 

cnr08008

New Member
Hello well this is my first post. I was just reading your post and i learned alot. I have a 29 gallon reef tank thats been up for about almost 2 years started off in the completly wrong way. Im going to be getting rid of the 29 to start a 60 FOWLR and then eventually turn it to a reef over time now one part that i dont undestand, i have about 35 lbs of live rock in my reef tank, after fill up the tank with water and put the sand in should i use the 35 lbs of live rock and then use base rock for the rest or should i use less live rock?
 

KenMich

New Member
Thank you To everyone that added to this post. I just set up my new bio cube 29 HQI and thankfully i found this and was able to read it before i started. I will be reading this over and over again. I would love to see some pictures from the people that posted in the thread back then and see how things have turned out.
 

StirCrayzy

Well-Known Member
Starting to feel like there is a need to brush the cobwebs off this relic. :ofr:
There are soo many ?s asked about basic general concepts i feel i should share this to the newbs.

This thread is one of the best ive found when i started trying to understand WHY things happen.

All you folks starting up new tanks, start on page 1.
All you who dont know why you are getting strange algae blooms, start on page 1.
Etc.... You get the point.:D

This is reef chemistry 101. Take a seat, slow down your typing, get cozy, and read.:read:
 

anheezy

Member
Prow, this thread helped to answer a lot of questions and concepts i had swirling around in my head from the constant rummaging through this forum filled a wealth of knowledge. If you have already answered this i apologize, but I was wondering if growing macro algae such as, chaeto, would hinder the growth of aerobic bacteria? I hope i remember this correctly but from your post the growth of algae is taking up the energy source, no3, that anaerobic bacteria is trying to use to grow. So would this mean we should not try to grow macro algae to help with the high nitrate, and let nitrate go down on its own through water changes, and then grow macro algae?
 

Singlefin

Member
Great read. Good brush up. Perfect timing. Starting to cycle my 3rd tank with fresh live rock. Been reading through this all day and just noticed was started in 2008. thanks.


Part of me is salty...,
 

Bladedrummer

New Member
Hello everybody,

this great thread pushed me to join this wonderful forum.

I'm currently cycling my very first reef tank so it's perfect material for me!!!

I took the liberty to type out a step-by-step footnote version of the original thread. Hopefully you'll help me fix it until we have it down to a sort of "cycling cheat sheet".

Here it goes.

1) Keep all lighting off, keep skimmer off, add flake food and/or dead shrimp;
a) Observe an ammonia spike.
b) Wait for the following to happen: ammonia goes up, ammonia goes down, NO2(nitrite) goes up, NO2(Nitrite) goes down, NO3(nitrate) goes up.


2) Don't let NO3 levels go too high. When NO3 =< 20 is a good number.
a) Hook up skimmer (skim wet);
b) Use Carbon and/or Phosban;
c) Turn on refugium lights and put some macro algae in there (chaeto?);
d) DO NOT turn on lighting in main display tank;
e) Add some of the clean-up crew;
f) Do water changes to keep NO3 below 20 at all times, below 10 is much better;
g) Add more of the clean-up crew every week;
h) When NO3 levels are 0 with the CUC in there feeding and creating waste (about a week or two typically) add a hardy fish or coral (perhaps more for advanced hobbyists);


NOTE: during step 2 keep algae and chemistry in check (watch for blooms, PH, temp, ammonia, NO2, NO3, Alk and so on...) do water changes as needed. ( I would say 10% every 2 or 3 days if needed)

3) Slowly start cycling in your lights in increments of 30 mins to an hour every 2 days.
a) Keep everything, particularly algae growth under tight control if possible.
b) Add new elements (corals, fish...) every few weeks up to 30 days or so.


Hope this can help us make the process crystal clear, like we want our water. :D
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
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to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members
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Be sure to start a tank thread & share your tank with us, we love pics :dance:

This is a great post from RS member prow !
 
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