Need some help guys

zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
I am using the Red Sea coral pro salt. Took all tests on newly made batch -

Kh - 12.8
Ph - 8.33
Calcium - 480
Magnesium - 1370

This is at a conductivity of 35ppt


I have been using this for my water changes for the last 15g of water. My tank was originally filled using store water made with fritz.

These are tank parameters at end of cycle before doing anything at all.

Ph - 7.75 day, 7.68 night
Conductivity 34.7-35.1
Calcium - 440
Magnesium - 1100

With replacing +- 80% total volume with this water AND using Kalk at 1/2 tsp per gallon I have not been able to get my ph to go above 8.10. It has gotten there and will sit at or around the 7.95 range and then drop back off to 7.70.

My current tank parameters are -

Ph - 7.93
Kh - 10.7
Conductivity - 34.9
Temp - 77.9
Magnesium - 1500
Calcium - 500

I am using Kalk +2 in my ATO.

I used all fake rock for aquascape.

Stock is -

Hammer
Symphyllia Wilsoni
Two acans
Lobo
Two acro frags
Bubble

I'm at a loss.





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PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
First thing I would do is to remove the Kalk from you ato. There is no way your new tank is growing at a rate where your water changes are not enough. Don't add it just to chase a ph number.

Do you remember my sps tank? That ran at a 7.7-7.9 ph from day one.

If I were you, I'd balance your tank out with 10% water changes a week and just let it stabilize for a bit.
 
zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
PSU4ME said:
First thing I would do is to remove the Kalk from you ato. There is no way your new tank is growing at a rate where your water changes are not enough. Don't add it just to chase a ph number.

Do you remember my sps tank? That ran at a 7.7-7.9 ph from day one.

If I were you, I'd balance your tank out with 10% water changes a week and just let it stabilize for a bit.
Click to expand...

Ok thank you, I am actually in the process of doing my water change of 5g and making 5g for ATO and was planning to get rid of the Kalk. Hopefully if I switch enough water over time it will become stable. I'm OCD when it comes to stuff like this but I'm trying to relax lol.


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PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
It happens to us all! During the winter months ph gets tough because our houses are always closed up so air it out when you can.

A stable 7.7-7.9 is better than an all over the place 8.1
 
zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
Thanks guys. I did my water change and replaced the 10g of water/Kalk with a 5g jug of pure RO/DI.

Can I ask so I have an idea, if any of you were to guess why would my salt mix be 8.33 and in tank would be much less and steadily drop? I'm curious and looking to learn


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zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
PSU4ME said:
It happens to us all! During the winter months ph gets tough because our houses are always closed up so air it out when you can.

A stable 7.7-7.9 is better than an all over the place 8.1
Click to expand...

If my water gets below 7.7 should I be worried? I only ask because it was down to 7.68 a few days ago before I added the Kalk.


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chipmunkofdoom2

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Good advice from all above. PSU4ME is spot on with his aeration advice, as is Dave with the "let it ride" wisdom.

Here's the obligatory RHF article for pH (seems there's one for every reef chemistry issue!), but the basic idea is that pH is tied pretty closely to alkalinity and dissolved CO2 levels. With low alkalinity, you could be facing chronic low or erratic pH, and the first order of business would be increasing the alk. However, with higher alkalinity, like the alkalinity in your tank, the only real way to raise the pH is aeration. If you're able to incorporate some sort of falling water (like an overflow) or increase the O2 levels in your home with increased aeration, that would certainly help.

I would also not rely on kalk to raise pH (obligatory RHF article on kalk). The rise in pH experienced by adding kalk is due to the hydroxide in the kalk. The hydroxide will eventually bond with CO2 in the water column to form bicarbonate, and the pH will drop as they hydroxide is used up. To put this more practically, the pH increase due to kalk addition is only temporary if there's an overall CO2 excess. On top of that, you'll still have the elevated alkalinity and calcium levels after the pH falls again.

If I were in your shoes, I would stop the kalk and focus on aeration, whether that involves using a sump/overflow, surface skimmer, and/or getting some fresh air into the home. If your alkalinity was low, a case could be made that this could be part of the problem, but it's not the case. Your alkalinity is right at the top of the ideal range, and Ca and Mg are even slightly above.
 
zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
Thanks, that's what confusing me and can't seem to get a "good" answer if you will. People show me articles and so on and what not but... I have opened my windows, I have turned my outputs toward surface and lowered water in back chambers to increase agitation. My alk, calcium, and mag are as you say. My tank is new and nothing I have is really using calc or kh to lower them. I am doing water changes with a salt that has a ph of 8.33 - enough water changes that I have changed far more than the total volume. I have used Kalk, and it would only work for x amount of time then effects would diminish. I am at a loss of what other possibilities there are. I even questioned my rock, as it is fake and perhaps would be absorbing whatever and dropping my kh, but... My kh after x amount of days was the same. There isn't a surplus of co2 in my apartment, as the bucket of water that is being mixed next to my tank will have a ph of 8.33 even after 24 hrs where as my tank ph will fall .30. My cycle is finished so I don't see having too many DOC in the tank, especially with the large and frequent water changes. Hell, I did 10g total wc this weekend alone using water that has a kh of 12.8, and ph of 8.33 and still the ph of tank will not go over 8.10.


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zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
I will not touch the tank until I see the ph fall like it has been, and then I will test kh, calcium, and mag again. Only two things I can think of.

Rock is making kh drop enough over 24-48 hours to make the ph fall.

The amount of DOC from not having a skimmer are building up enough that after the 24-48 hours they affect the ph.

It will only be a very subtle drop over the first day and then by the second, if plummets back down to around 7.7 in a matter of 6-8 hours. When it drops, if all the test come out the same at least I'll be able to rule the rock out.


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chipmunkofdoom2

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
How new is the tank? From the RFH pH article:

Causes of Low pH Problems
...
5. The aquarium is still cycling, and has excess acid being produced from the nitrogen cycle and degradation of organics to CO2.

If your tank is still newer, it could be that there are still elevated levels of organics. Your tank may be producing higher than normal levels of ammonia and nitrite. That's not to say that you're still cycling necessarily.. you may have enough bacteria to handle the waste, and these two might be testing zero ppm. It's just that the transition from excess ammonia/nitrite to nitrate could be producing excess hydrogen and driving down your pH.

Just out of curiosity, I would try running the aeration test recommended later in the article:

Some of the possibilities listed above require some effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. The pH should rise if the pH is unusually low for the measured alkalinity, as in Figure 3 (if it does not rise, most likely one of the measurements (pH or alkalinity) is in error). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If the pH rises there too, then the aquarium pH will rise with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise inside (or rises very little), then the inside air contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should).

I would tend to agree with you.. if your pH is good when you're mixing up the new water and is low in the tank, I wouldn't think there's an aeration problem, but I'd still try out the above just to rule it out.
 
zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
No skimmer right now. Looking to get tunze 9001. Should be here next week. Was originally planning on doing 5g water change per week.


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zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
Rock is ruled out as well as coral. Ph stayed put at 7.98 until this morning. Has dropped steadily to 7.88 over 8 hours. Checked kh, calc, and magnesium.


Kh - 13 (API)
Calcium - 480
Magnesium - 1500

Skimmer should be here early next week.


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zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
Talk about DOC. How about no skimmer, over feeding, and a dead fish from six weeks ago still under one of my rocks..


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PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
Dead fish in your tank?

Sounds like you adding a skimmer and letting things settle is in order. It's a beautiful tank, don't rush it!
 
zchauvin

zchauvin

Active Member
So far doing good. Removed all sand, swooshed crap off of rock in bucket, and did a ten gallon water change. All parameters are good, ph stayed at 8.0 over night and is currently at 8.1. Not going to count chickens before they hatch but after ruling out every other option I think DOC were driving ph down shortly after water change


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