I'm looking to upgrade my lighting on my 180g tank. I'm currently running two 400w 20,000k metal halides. Tank is 3 years old, but just started adding coral last year, will be mixed reef tank. Budget is roughly $2,000. I'm leaning towards Giesemann vervve at the moment, tank is 72" long, not sure if I could make due with 2 or if I would need 3 units. Hoping for feedback from anyone that has experience with these, and open to suggestions on other brands.
Looking for suggestions
- Thread starter erick85
- Start date
One of the things your going to find is that LEDs want to direct their light straight down, even if you get the "latest and greatest" lenses on them. I use four AI Hydra 52 fixtures on my 125 gal reef.
If your tank has a center brace, and you use 3 fixtures, that center brace is going to make some shadows under it. You might be better off with 4 smaller fixtures.
I think any of the fixtures your looking at will do a fantastic job. No matter what you get, there is going to be something "better" out in 6 months, and there will be someone telling you "You should have got a ...".
One thing you can do is start with only two fixtures and see how you like it. You can always add more. However plan this into you cost calculations. You don't want any nasty surprises.
If your tank has a center brace, and you use 3 fixtures, that center brace is going to make some shadows under it. You might be better off with 4 smaller fixtures.
I think any of the fixtures your looking at will do a fantastic job. No matter what you get, there is going to be something "better" out in 6 months, and there will be someone telling you "You should have got a ...".
One thing you can do is start with only two fixtures and see how you like it. You can always add more. However plan this into you cost calculations. You don't want any nasty surprises.
I've decided to throw my budget out the window and I'm looking towards either 3 Giesemann vervve or the Giesemann futura 5. The futura seems like an amazing unit, however I can't find any good reviews (in English at least). Anyone know where to find a good review or a comparison between these two? Also, if anyone has personal experience with either unit, your feedback would be much appreciated.
cracker
Well-Known Member
Hello eric, I'm setting up a 180 and seriously considering hanging my old MH fixtures. MH is a tried and true good light. I have been experimenting with led lights. They are WAY out there on cost. Sure .You can turn a knob or touch some buttons on the Iphone to adjust ,dim ,etc. Do the fishes & corals care?
Yea, I'll give you that. But the heat and power consumption from metal halide is becoming an issue. Not to mention bulbs are becoming harder to find and are expensive as well. I feel mh will be obsolete soon personally. And I agree however, the corals and fish probably don't care about the farcles.
You could do this, but after about 5 years, the savings in LEDs verses MHs in cost of electricity and bulb replacement pay for a lot of the LED costs.
You'd need about three 250w MHs to light up the tank, and you'd spend about $200 each year to replace the bulbs. That's about $1000 after 5 years.
Three 250w MHs would consume about 1100w per hour, if your using coil and core ballasts, or about 850w per hour if using electronic ballasts. Three high end LED fixtures would consume only about 350w per hour if set to about 75% max. This depends a lot on the fixture.
We'd be saving about 500w or more each hour or about 5kw if they are run 10 hours a day. If we figure electricity at about 12 cents per kwh, we save 60 cents per day or about $219 a year. That's about $1095 after 5 years.
If you bought three new AI Hydra 52 HD fixturers at $599 each, you'd be about $1800.
Now you could argue the amount of time you can use MH bulbs or the cost per kwh and so on, but the bottom line is that you can more or less replace the MHs with new LED fixturers and the cost savings pay for the new LEDs.
In effect, your getting the upgrade for free.
This is why I use only LEDs today, and why I have several MH fixtures gathering dust in the basement.
BTW, I have the MH fixtures, and a few T5 fixtures that are "free to a good home" if anyone wants to pick them up or meet me half way. PM me with what your looking for.
You've done your homework Dave, which is about the same calculations I've come up with over the last year. My electric is closer to .18 cents kw/hr. which is another reason I'm wanting to make the change. Also my mh put out too much heat, and I rather just invest in led instead of buying a chiller for my 300 gallons total water volume. It's just that I've done t5 and metal halide for last 16+ years and have never used led and most seem too have a bit too many farcles. I just want to find a light that offers a good spectrum range, especially on the uv and blue end, and offers a good spread without spotlight effect, ease of customization and use is a plus. Pretty much made up my mind I'm going to try giesemann, just not sure if I want 3 units with the vervve or one single unit with the futura. For the cost of led lights I don't want to make the wrong decision.
Heat is another big factor with MHs and often required a chiller to keep the tank temp down. That would create an additional expense for using MHs, but it's difficult to estimate that because not every tank would need a chiller, and it's hard to say how much a chiller would need to run, because of a lot of external factors.
In looking at the Giesemann fixtures your considering, I like the LED arrangement in Futura a little better, but either one would work.
I will say that a single long fixture is a real moose to install and maintain. I had that twice over my reef. The first time was T12 VHOs and the second with MHs. I will never get a single 72" long fixture again. Long mounting rails are ok as long as you can easily remove a single fixture. Also three individual units are a lot easier to deal with if you need to replace one or return one for warranty service.
In addition to Giesemann, also check out AquaIlluminatiom, EcoTech, and Kessil. When you get into lighting like this, it's really not possible to pick an all around winner. Each one has advantages, depending on what you want out of the lighting. You can't go too far wrong with any of them.
One key thing I look at is the manufacturers web site and see if they sell replacement parts for their gear. If they do, you know that you can at least get a part if something goes bad. Far too many low end fixtures are made in China and parts are unavailable, so if the fixture had a problem, it's all your problem.
As for the controls and all the "useless tricks" some of the manufacturers talk about, look for something you can control via the wireless internet or bluetooth. Just about all of them are easy to setup. You simply ignore all the "tricks" the fixtures can do. Like they say "Tricks are for kids". (grin)
I set my own LEDs up very simply. Minimum blue at night for moonlights, one hour ramp up with everything going to 80% max, 80% max through the day, and a one hour ramp down. I let it do the phases of the moon thing only because it's a simple on/off setting. No other stuff such as overcast days, lightning storms, and so on. I see that stuff, and my first thought is something is wrong with the fixture. I'm getting too old for that additional stress (grin).
Lastly, it's impossible to keep up with the technology. No matter what you get, within a year, something better will be out. However, it's usually not that much better, and you'll do just fine with what you have.
In looking at the Giesemann fixtures your considering, I like the LED arrangement in Futura a little better, but either one would work.
I will say that a single long fixture is a real moose to install and maintain. I had that twice over my reef. The first time was T12 VHOs and the second with MHs. I will never get a single 72" long fixture again. Long mounting rails are ok as long as you can easily remove a single fixture. Also three individual units are a lot easier to deal with if you need to replace one or return one for warranty service.
In addition to Giesemann, also check out AquaIlluminatiom, EcoTech, and Kessil. When you get into lighting like this, it's really not possible to pick an all around winner. Each one has advantages, depending on what you want out of the lighting. You can't go too far wrong with any of them.
One key thing I look at is the manufacturers web site and see if they sell replacement parts for their gear. If they do, you know that you can at least get a part if something goes bad. Far too many low end fixtures are made in China and parts are unavailable, so if the fixture had a problem, it's all your problem.
As for the controls and all the "useless tricks" some of the manufacturers talk about, look for something you can control via the wireless internet or bluetooth. Just about all of them are easy to setup. You simply ignore all the "tricks" the fixtures can do. Like they say "Tricks are for kids". (grin)
I set my own LEDs up very simply. Minimum blue at night for moonlights, one hour ramp up with everything going to 80% max, 80% max through the day, and a one hour ramp down. I let it do the phases of the moon thing only because it's a simple on/off setting. No other stuff such as overcast days, lightning storms, and so on. I see that stuff, and my first thought is something is wrong with the fixture. I'm getting too old for that additional stress (grin).
Lastly, it's impossible to keep up with the technology. No matter what you get, within a year, something better will be out. However, it's usually not that much better, and you'll do just fine with what you have.