Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fine (m

[Peterpion]

Hi,

This is my first post here and so I am sorry I didn't introduce myself first in the intro forum but I think everyone will appreciate the situation I am in.

I've had a marine tank (75gal) for several years which has been humming along nicely but with not much in the way of corals and inverts in it. I recently decided to pay it some attention and get a couple of new fish and start increasing my coral collection. However I committed the cardinal sin and thought I could get away with putting new fish straight into my tank.

Well a few days later one of my new fish (a small vampire tang) looks like hes about to have a severe ich infestation, from what I can see at the mo it looks bad enough to kill him once it progresses. Yesterday he had a few tiny white dots, today more, and if memory serves me right they will grow larger and become more irritating to him as they do. It will be easier for me to move the few corals I have into a separate tank than the fish since theres a lot of ocean rock in there, and very little live rock so I was thinking of trying a reef safe treatment (I don't want to use copper and saturate the rock with it).

A poster called Drydens mentioned in a thread that he had had good success with one of these, I know they are frowned upon generally amongst advanced aquarists but since I can move my corals and small amount of live rock to a separate tank it seems like the best option. I wanted to do a 100% water change soon anyway so I will do this in maybe a month when the fish are all fine.

Problem is Drydens didn't mention what product he used, and I was wondering does anyone know, or has anyone else had success with a particular reef safe product? I privately messaged him but no response yet and the fish looks a lot worse this morning. Its probably only got a couple of days left to live at this rate. I will try to catch him and give him a FW dip to relieve him of some of these parasites but I know this will not fix the problem, and catching him is probably going to be very tricky. I wonder in fact if its worth it since in the past when I have had a case of ich the stress seems to make it much worse.

Thanks for reading,

Pete

PS sorry about the title, I must have messed up while typing the body of text

 

[BLADEYAMAHA]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

I have had good luck with "Ruby Reef Kich Ich". I used it in the main tank once and had no more ich problems and killed no corals, you must use plenty of aeriation and have lots of live rock, IMO. There is also the "hyposalinity" treatment which I know nothing about. :welcomera and good luck to you!

 

[redneckgearhead]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

If you can move your corals go Hypo! If you are going to try a "reef safe" method then why bother moving the corals? What is the difference between "ocean rock" and LR?

 

[lcstorc]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Welcome to RS. Glad to meet you but sorry it is under such circumstances.
If you don't let the tank go fallow (without fish) the parasite will still be in the tank and able to re-infect at any time. Usually this happens when they get stressed. Unfortunately even hypo-salinity won't work because part of the life cycle of the parasite will not be effected.
The only way to truly beat the parasite is the tried and true quarantine tank with hypo or copper while leaving the tank fish free for the 8 weeks necessary for the parasite to go through the entire life cycle and die.
The only thing you can really do is to try to eliminate stress as much as you can while feeding nutritious food and hope for the best. Meanwhile keep in mind the parasite is still in the tank.
Sorry to be a downer but unfortunately this parasite is a royal pain.
Here is a link to some more information for you.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

 

[steved13]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

You might want to check out the disease forum:

Fish Diseases & Treatments

For ich specifically and hyposalinty and copper:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ents/23130-copper-treatment-use-problems.html

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...nts/23131-hyposalinity-treatment-process.html

I think you'll find, the recommendation is always, remove and treat the fish and leave the main display fallow for at least 8 weeks. The general consensus from the experts, is there is no reef safe remedy that works.


Lynn beat me to it(I type slowly)

 

[Bearjohnson]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

+1^

You might want to check out the disease forum:

Fish Diseases & Treatments

For ich specifically and hyposalinty and copper:

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ents/23130-copper-treatment-use-problems.html

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...nts/23131-hyposalinity-treatment-process.html

I think you'll find, the recommendation is always, remove and treat the fish and leave the main display fallow for at least 8 weeks. The general consensus from the experts, is there is no reef safe remedy that works.


Lynn beat me to it(I type slowly)

 

[Peterpion]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for the quick replies. I have read the copper and hyposalinity treatment pages and was thinking of making the whole tank hypo (with the corals in a small separate tank, it will be easier for me to keep them in a small tank than the fish since I have no space for a reasonable size tank for the fish and it would be cruel and stressful I think to put the fish in a small tank).

So if I can take the corals out, the whole main tank could be used as a hospital tank, with filtration already up to speed, more space etc.

Redneckgearhead - AFAIK the difference between ocean rock and live rock is really only porosity, this rick does not seem nearly as porous as live rock. Im in the UK and live rock is pricey here so when I set up the tank originally as a FO tank I chose the cheaper stuff - the real stuff would have cost me about £500 (whats that - 7 or 800 dollars). But now I want to convert the tank to a real reef I will slowly replace the rock with live as I can afford it. Of course this rock is a bit live now, but not as much as the real stuff I think - theres little to no corraline growing. But I think theres no really expensive stuff on the rock to kill off, so I am not worried about using a treatment which will 'hurt' live rock.

On the other hand I dont want to use copper as I will never rid the tank of it until I remove all the rock currently in it (ie it will soak into the rock and since its so toxic, corals etc will never be happy even with trace amounts of copper I suspect).

Anyway, I was thinking that if there are semi reef safe treatments out there they will leave no residue once a 100% water change has happened, hence maybe I can treat in the main tank. Also it will rid the rock of any parasites. I can keep my corals separate for 8 weeks too. But this method assumes that the 'reef safe' methods do work. They don't however need to be completely reef safe, just to not leave too toxic a residue on rocks (like copper would).

Thanks for your input so far, I am going to look up the 'Ruby Reef Kick Ich' for starters. Did you find it did definately cure the ich? I just read an article on 'reefkeeping' which said it had no affect on xenia at least.

 

[steved13]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Just to make sure you didn't miss this part:

A hyposalinity treatment will kill: Pods, snails, crabs, invertebrates, corals, live rock, most marine algae, and Marine Ich. This is why it is best performed in a separate, bare bottom, hospital tank. It has been performed successfully in fish only aquariums where there is no live rock and the substrate doesn't have worms and pods in it. But the best treatment tank is a bare bottom hospital tank, set up like a quarantine tank.

You'll be starting your entire system over from the beginning...I'm not sure why you'd want to do it that way.

Good luck however you proceed.

 

[BLADEYAMAHA]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Hi guys,

Thanks for your input so far, I am going to look up the 'Ruby Reef Kick Ich' for starters. Did you find it did definately cure the ich? I just read an article on 'reefkeeping' which said it had no affect on xenia at least.

Yes I found it to permanently remove ich from the tank. I treated in quarantine tanks and it kept getting back on the fish and then I tried 'Ruby Reef Kick Ich'-problem was solved. You have to follow the directions exactly!

 

[BLADEYAMAHA]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

If you want, I can type up the directions for you, I have a bottle on hand.




http://www.marinedepot.com/Ruby_Ree...ations-Ruby_Reef-RR1111-FIMEPS-RR1111-vi.html

 

[dmatt88]

Good info. Move all fish to qt and treat however u deem appropriate following the above stated links. Leave your dt up and running normally and continue feeding. 8 weeks later return the clean fish to dt and you beat it. Good luck.

Woohoo Matt has tapatalk back

 

[sasquatch]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Hi guys,
Anyway, I was thinking that if there are semi reef safe treatments out there they will leave no residue once a 100% water change has happened, hence maybe I can treat in the main tank. Also it will rid the rock of any parasites. I can keep my corals separate for 8 weeks too. But this method assumes that the 'reef safe' methods do work. They don't however need to be completely reef safe, just to not leave too toxic a residue on rocks (like copper would).

Thanks for your input so far, I am going to look up the 'Ruby Reef Kick Ich' for starters. Did you find it did definately cure the ich? I just read an article on 'reefkeeping' which said it had no affect on xenia at least.

"IF" there were such a thing as a reef safe treatment believe me it would be the headliner on every reef site, there ain't no such animal, stay the coarse and do whats known to work, a bandaid will not work on a severed artery

 

[BigAl07]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

, a bandaid will not work on a severed artery

Not even if you shove it into the artery? :LOL:

 

[Peterpion]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Re the QT tank, I think my qt tank is far too small for all the fish (the rest are bound to have it by now I think). They need at least a 50 gal imo and I havent the space for another tank that size. But since theres little substrate in the tank at the mo and just really some ocean rock and fish, it seems better to use this as a qt tank and convert it back to a display tank later. Even if I have to run hypo. Im worried about hypo because when I took out my ph meter a couple of days ago when I first saw a sign of ich on one fish, its reading completely off and I cant adjust it to within range so its obviously dead. Ph is said to be critical with hypo from what I read. Getting a new ph meter is going to take several days to a week... I dont like the idea of copper, but it would be a last resort of course. But that would mean taking all the rock out too and putting it in a bucket or something with a pump - certainly possible.

The thing is that several people seem to say that certain products worked for them with ich. I assume from this that certain products give one a slight edge - they might not cure a badly infested fish but might help a fish who can almost fight it off on his own, to fight it off completely. The fish with ich looks great for a fish with ich, but I know it will get worse. Worst case I will pull out all the rock, get him out and give him a FW dip, then keep doing this daily, but as I say I suspect the other fish will get it too. I do run a powerful UV on the tank and I am wondering if the ich products out there maybe reduce the ich virulence, which added to healthy fish who are not too stressed and in a decent tank, with great water quality etc might beat it.

 

[dmatt88]

Copper and hypo are the only ways for a permanent solution. As for treating in the dt copper gets stuck in rocks sand etc. Which will forever trouble and kill inverts n corals.

Woohoo Matt has tapatalk back

 

[sasquatch]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Not even if you shove it into the artery? :LOL:

no, not even.

 

[reefer gladness]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

I have had good luck with "Ruby Reef Kich Ich". I used it in the main tank once and had no more ich problems and killed no corals, you must use plenty of aeriation and have lots of live rock, IMO. There is also the "hyposalinity" treatment which I know nothing about. :welcomera and good luck to you!

FWIW, I've also used this product successfully to treat ich in my display tank. I used it before reading some of the horror stories others ran into using this product but in all fairness it did work. I don't think the ich was that bad, not more than a couple small spots but it spread from 1 fish to the other 3. It's been over 2 months and no re-occurance.

Can't honestly say I would use it again though considering how many folks recommend against it. Maybe we were lucky once and dodged a bullet?

 

[sasquatch]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

Peter, if you can store all your rock in trash cans and provide heat and flow you could drain the tank, get a large piece of heavy duty plastic and line the tank, treat with copper and carry on, once they are treated and tested you can go barebottomed in the tank with some plastic pipe until the 10 to 12 weeks are up on the rock. (yeah I know 8 weeks? BS I say after all the work this will take)

 

[clownfishrule]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

If you can move your corals go Hypo! If you are going to try a "reef safe" method then why bother moving the corals? What is the difference between "ocean rock" and LR?

i think the difference is ocean rock hasn't been in a tank long or something thats why i didn't buy LR from internet because they say you have to put rocks in news paper and sit it out side and keep it moist idk why though.

 

[reefer gladness]

Re: Ich attack - main tank safe treatment so I will do this once the fish are all fin

i think the difference is ocean rock hasn't been in a tank long or something thats why i didn't buy LR from internet because they say you have to put rocks in news paper and sit it out side and keep it moist idk why though.

OP explained it as a difference in porosity of the rock. Probably a misnomer as LR comes in a variety of porosities depending on where it came from. The tonga branch rock I have in my tank isn't very porous at all compared to some others.

Newspaper is what those internet vendors will use to wrap the live rock and ship it - after they stored it outside. Not sure what's in newspaper ink but I have to wash my hands after handling a newspaper so I wouldn't want that leaching into my tank.