Kendalls_reef

New Member
hello everybody!!

so i'm new here and i really need some help with my new green bulb anemone... i have no idea what is happening to her.

the first day i had her, wednesday, she was great. she found a little cave-like hole in one of my live rocks and she was full and beautiful. taking food and everything. then yesterday evening, she decided to move which was fine, i was expecting her to find somewhere. but ever since yesterday when she decided to move, she's deflated, her mouth is swollen and exposed, she keeps turning her tenticles in and almost like.. hides her mouth when i try to feed her or when a fish swims by. she won't accept my clownfish for some reason.


but she's not bleached out, her foot is bright orange and her tentacles are the green like she was when i got her from live aquaria. i drop acclimated her for almost three hours, constantly monitoring her. the water peramaters are perfect. so i don't understand why she's doing it? and just a few moments ago i finally got her to eat, but she's spitting some of it out and producing a brown mucus color?


again, she's not attached. i turned my powerhead off and reduced the flow because she was kind of floating around. now she's in one spot on the sand bed but she won't attach.

should i remove her and put her in a different tank? should i put her in a smaller tank with the clownfish? any help is greatly appreciated.

here's a picture.
 

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Uncle99

Well-Known Member
Assuming all your water parameters are correct, it is not unusual for these creatures to "shrink" up every once in a while. Some suggest this is a way to expel waste. I only feed once per week. I would say be patient, let her adjust.
I really don't see anything wrong unless she session like this for mire than 3 days
 

Kendalls_reef

New Member
Assuming all your water parameters are correct, it is not unusual for these creatures to "shrink" up every once in a while. Some suggest this is a way to expel waste. I only feed once per week. I would say be patient, let her adjust.
I really don't see anything wrong unless she session like this for mire than 3 days

alright well i will just watch her. hopefully she begins to act "normal". i've never owned one before, so maybe i'm just a bit paranoid lol. i will keep this thread updated if she gets worse or better. keeping my fingers crossed.
 

Kendalls_reef

New Member
now she looks like this. but she's moved. she's climbed up a rock, but has fallen off of it.
 

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DaveK

Well-Known Member
Amemones that "turn themselves inside out" are usually in serious trouble. Keep a careful ete on it and at the first sign of decay or being torn apart or "smoke" coming from it, remove it and discard it.

At this point there is a chance it will recover.

At this point don't worry about your clowns showing no interest. Sometimes then never do.

To better answer your questions, please give us the following information.

What size tank do you have the anemone in?

How long have you had the tank set up?

What filtration and skimming do you have?

What kind of lighting do you have?
 

Uncle99

Well-Known Member
She will move around the tank until she is happy. Hard to tell in the pic but if she is "inside" out spewing carp, that's not good. She needs to attach.
She needs min. 30 Gallon, moderate flow, especially strong lighting.
Keep us posted but some more info may help. I seen some recover well, others just go "poof". As written above in prior post, if she goes, discard.
 

Kendalls_reef

New Member
Amemones that "turn themselves inside out" are usually in serious trouble. Keep a careful ete on it and at the first sign of decay or being torn apart or "smoke" coming from it, remove it and discard it.

At this point there is a chance it will recover.

At this point don't worry about your clowns showing no interest. Sometimes then never do.

To better answer your questions, please give us the following information.

What size tank do you have the anemone in?

How long have you had the tank set up?

What filtration and skimming do you have?

What kind of lighting do you have?


the tank is 55 gallons, i have a 700 canister filter and a 800 powerhead ( it said 800 on the package). i have a protein skimmer coming in the mail and it'll be here on monday as my other one had a huge crack in it.

the tank is about three months old with these new inhabitants, but it used to have a reef in it earlier this year and it was quite a few years old.


im not totally sure what the light is called since it belonged to the person who owned the tank before, but it is not stock lighting.

i made sure my water peramters and everything were absolutely perfect before ordering the anemone. i just don't understand why it won't settle?


i have another tank that i can move the anemone in but i do not have a filter for that tank. but i could always set it up with a rock to let the anemone settle in peace?
 

Kendalls_reef

New Member
She will move around the tank until she is happy. Hard to tell in the pic but if she is "inside" out spewing carp, that's not good. She needs to attach.
She needs min. 30 Gallon, moderate flow, especially strong lighting.
Keep us posted but some more info may help. I seen some recover well, others just go "poof". As written above in prior post, if she goes, discard.


if she goes, will she poison my tank? would she be better off if i just move her to a smaller (it's only three gallons) temporary tank to see if she gets better? there will be high light. i can get new, fresh water for her and see if she does well in there over the weekend?
 

Uncle99

Well-Known Member
is it florescant, LED, MH?
Do ya know Average PAR.
She should not float around the tank?
Was it shipped or did you pick it from the LFS?
It's only a couple of days old so I might think of transit shock.
Let's see if she will settle. Your call, different tank, not sure that buys us anything, she acting that way for a reason and its "I don't like something where I am now"
 

Uncle99

Well-Known Member
If she goes, she will make ammonia skyrocket and that's dangerous. For others.
Is she floating around the Aquarium or stuck to the substrate?
 

Kendalls_reef

New Member
If she goes, she will make ammonia skyrocket and that's dangerous. For others.
Is she floating around the Aquarium or stuck to the substrate?


well now she's laying in the sand near a rock. i just fed my fish in the tank and she filled her tentacles up and managed to eat some of it. so she seems fine. her mouth isn't exposed anymore but she still isn't latching onto anything.
 

Kendalls_reef

New Member
is it florescant, LED, MH?
Do ya know Average PAR.
She should not float around the tank?
Was it shipped or did you pick it from the LFS?
It's only a couple of days old so I might think of transit shock.
Let's see if she will settle. Your call, different tank, not sure that buys us anything, she acting that way for a reason and its "I don't like something where I am now"


it's a flourescent. my small tank that i would move her to is also a flourescent.


i ordered her from LiveAquaria so she was shipped. just got her wednesday. i literally drip acclimated her for almost three hours, making sure she was perfect which she was even when the bowl was completely my water.

and she was perfect the first day. she had herself a nice little cave to hide her foot in and then yesterday evening was when she started moving around and has herself in this situation now.


my PH is at 8.3
salinity is 1.024
ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all at zero.
there's no copper because my snails and shrimp are absolutely perfect. and my fish are, as well.
 

Uncle99

Well-Known Member
Your long drip is fine but did you keep the water temp in the drip bucket same as tank?. This is the most common error in dripping.
No sure that matters now.
Just watch her now!
Let s hope for recovery, don't target feed her right now, once per week, some myst shrimp is more than enough.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
the tank is 55 gallons, i have a 700 canister filter and a 800 powerhead ( it said 800 on the package). i have a protein skimmer coming in the mail and it'll be here on monday as my other one had a huge crack in it.

the tank is about three months old with these new inhabitants, but it used to have a reef in it earlier this year and it was quite a few years old.
...
i made sure my water peramters and everything were absolutely perfect before ordering the anemone. i just don't understand why it won't settle?


i have another tank that i can move the anemone in but i do not have a filter for that tank. but i could always set it up with a rock to let the anemone settle in peace?
if she goes, will she poison my tank? would she be better off if i just move her to a smaller (it's only three gallons) temporary tank to see if she gets better? there will be high light. i can get new, fresh water for her and see if she does well in there over the weekend?
it's a flourescent. my small tank that i would move her to is also a flourescent.


i ordered her from LiveAquaria so she was shipped. just got her wednesday. i literally drip acclimated her for almost three hours, making sure she was perfect which she was even when the bowl was completely my water.

and she was perfect the first day. she had herself a nice little cave to hide her foot in and then yesterday evening was when she started moving around and has herself in this situation now.


my PH is at 8.3
salinity is 1.024
ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all at zero.
there's no copper because my snails and shrimp are absolutely perfect. and my fish are, as well.

Anemones require a well established tank, with very high quality water and excellent lighting. This usually means a tank that has been set up and running without any serious problems for about a year. At 3 months, your tank is not ready yet for an anemone.

You also have a problem with water quality. While it's not impossible, it's very difficult to maintain the water quality needed using a canister filter. This is because they trap dirt and become "nitrate factories". Canister filters can also become big oxygen consumers, but this depends upon the media your using. If you are going to use a canister filter, you need to clean it at least weekly. You should also use only mechanical filter media and optionally chemical media. Usually you do not want to use any biological media in it. In a SW system the live rock in the tank is the biological filtration.

Long term your lighting my also be a problem. When you see anemones moving around, they are usually unhappy about something. Usually they are looking for more light or water flow they like better. Typically for a tank your size, 55 gal, to keep an anemone you would want a minimum of a 4 bulb T5 fixture. You should also replace the bulbs every 12 to 18 months. You may need to upgrade the lighting, but you need not do this right away.

Do not move the anemone to another tank. You'll do a lot more harm than good, especially since your other tank is extremely small. Anemones like stable water conditions, and moving it will only stress it more.

Yes, it's quite possible for a dead anemone to wipe out an entire tank. That's why many of the posts told you to keep a very close eye on it.

You can't tell if you have a copper issue just by looking at the tank. However, I doubt that you have one, unless the former owner treated the tank with copper at some point.

Now I know this post sound like I'm telling you that you did everything wrong. Don't feel too bad about this. Many other people have made the same beginner mistake. It sometimes seems everyone new to the hobby seems to want an anemone with a pair of clowns. The big question is where do you go from here?

At this point your best course of action is to leave things alone, keep an eye on the anemone, and hope. If it does die make sure you get it out right away. Long term you will likely want to upgrade the filtration and lighting, but put it off for the moment. You do not want to be introducing other stress factors.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
Anemones require a well established tank, with very high quality water and excellent lighting. This usually means a tank that has been set up and running without any serious problems for about a year. At 3 months, your tank is not ready yet for an anemone.

You also have a problem with water quality. While it's not impossible, it's very difficult to maintain the water quality needed using a canister filter. This is because they trap dirt and become "nitrate factories". Canister filters can also become big oxygen consumers, but this depends upon the media your using. If you are going to use a canister filter, you need to clean it at least weekly. You should also use only mechanical filter media and optionally chemical media. Usually you do not want to use any biological media in it. In a SW system the live rock in the tank is the biological filtration.

Long term your lighting my also be a problem. When you see anemones moving around, they are usually unhappy about something. Usually they are looking for more light or water flow they like better. Typically for a tank your size, 55 gal, to keep an anemone you would want a minimum of a 4 bulb T5 fixture. You should also replace the bulbs every 12 to 18 months. You may need to upgrade the lighting, but you need not do this right away.

Do not move the anemone to another tank. You'll do a lot more harm than good, especially since your other tank is extremely small. Anemones like stable water conditions, and moving it will only stress it more.

Yes, it's quite possible for a dead anemone to wipe out an entire tank. That's why many of the posts told you to keep a very close eye on it.

You can't tell if you have a copper issue just by looking at the tank. However, I doubt that you have one, unless the former owner treated the tank with copper at some point.

Now I know this post sound like I'm telling you that you did everything wrong. Don't feel too bad about this. Many other people have made the same beginner mistake. It sometimes seems everyone new to the hobby seems to want an anemone with a pair of clowns. The big question is where do you go from here?

At this point your best course of action is to leave things alone, keep an eye on the anemone, and hope. If it does die make sure you get it out right away. Long term you will likely want to upgrade the filtration and lighting, but put it off for the moment. You do not want to be introducing other stress factors.

Excellent detailed advice, as always.
 
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Kendalls_reef

New Member
Anemones require a well established tank, with very high quality water and excellent lighting. This usually means a tank that has been set up and running without any serious problems for about a year. At 3 months, your tank is not ready yet for an anemone.

You also have a problem with water quality. While it's not impossible, it's very difficult to maintain the water quality needed using a canister filter. This is because they trap dirt and become "nitrate factories". Canister filters can also become big oxygen consumers, but this depends upon the media your using. If you are going to use a canister filter, you need to clean it at least weekly. You should also use only mechanical filter media and optionally chemical media. Usually you do not want to use any biological media in it. In a SW system the live rock in the tank is the biological filtration.

Long term your lighting my also be a problem. When you see anemones moving around, they are usually unhappy about something. Usually they are looking for more light or water flow they like better. Typically for a tank your size, 55 gal, to keep an anemone you would want a minimum of a 4 bulb T5 fixture. You should also replace the bulbs every 12 to 18 months. You may need to upgrade the lighting, but you need not do this right away.

Do not move the anemone to another tank. You'll do a lot more harm than good, especially since your other tank is extremely small. Anemones like stable water conditions, and moving it will only stress it more.

Yes, it's quite possible for a dead anemone to wipe out an entire tank. That's why many of the posts told you to keep a very close eye on it.

You can't tell if you have a copper issue just by looking at the tank. However, I doubt that you have one, unless the former owner treated the tank with copper at some point.

Now I know this post sound like I'm telling you that you did everything wrong. Don't feel too bad about this. Many other people have made the same beginner mistake. It sometimes seems everyone new to the hobby seems to want an anemone with a pair of clowns. The big question is where do you go from here?

At this point your best course of action is to leave things alone, keep an eye on the anemone, and hope. If it does die make sure you get it out right away. Long term you will likely want to upgrade the filtration and lighting, but put it off for the moment. You do not want to be introducing other stress factors.


so the anemone was fine last night. it managed to anchor itself in a corner of my tank and was full and happy. so i turned my power head back on the allow some flow in the tank. then this morning, come downstairs to find the anemone dead along with all of my fish, shrimp, and snails. the water isn't completely cloudy, but cloudy enough to need a water change.


this comes to my next question. must i drain ALL the water and start over since everything is dead, or just most of it? i'm basically going to be starting from scratch all over again. and, as for my live rock, i put them all in a bucket with fresh saltwater, can i put them back in the tank once i do the full waterchange and cycling or must i wait?
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. A total loss like that is really a tough break.

SW systems often can recover fairly quickly. I recommend the following.

Change most of the water, about 85% or so. Then put the LR back in the tank. Just leave things alone and monitor ammonia and nitrite. You should see these spike and drop back to normal. At that point check your nitrate and if necessary make water changes to bring that down. Don't try to speed things up or make a lot of changes to the system. Leave it alone and let nature take it's course. I once had a total loss due to a power failure. After removing all the dead material and getting the filtration going again, the tank was ready to go in a couple of weeks.

If you don't see an ammonia or nitrite spike, you may need to add something to start the cycle. I usually use a piece of raw shrimp from the grocery store.

I will also add that just about everyone who has had a SW system any length of time has had a total disaster like this. They learn from it, and try again.
 

Uncle99

Well-Known Member
Wow, that's a big crash. Something must be way out of whack.
If everything is dead, yup, it's time to start over.
Your goal appears to be to keep an anenome with ocellaris.

I have been keeping anenomes and ocellaris pairs for more than 25 years so can I share what works for me.

1. If everything is dead let's start with fresh saltwater 100%. Put the live rock back in, lighting at this point is not required.
2. Let's clean the filter and run charcoal to absorb any toxins which remain.
3. Let get the power head and pumps running again.
4. Then do a weekly change of water until all water parameters are set and zero on the ammonia and nitrate. At this point we are cycled, maybe 4-8 weeks.
5. At this point look for stability in temp, SG, and zero ammonia and nitrates.
6. Be careful on SG. Most people use one of those plastic SG Meters which is OK but they are only good for 6 months.

At this point, if your test show absolute stability, then OK to proceed with inhabitants. But go slow. An anenome and ocellaris would be a great start cause that seems to be your intention.

Now let's talk equipment:
1. The best way to keep a clean tank is 20% water change weekly. I keep 2 50 gallon garbage pails of water, 1 fresh, 1 salt kept at 1.024 or 1.025 and that water should be reverse osmosis.
3. I have no skimmer, and have a hang on back of tank filter with a sponge, a bag of charcoal, and a bag of phosphate remover change every 2 months. Skimming is a plus, but with weekly changes of water, I have never needed. In addition, I employ what is called a deep sand substrate. I use half inch plastic pipe on the bottom glass and that white plastic 1/2 inch stuff they use to defuse florescant light on top, then a layer of plastic window screen, then 2 inches of live coral sand, another screen, another 2 inches of coral sand. This creates an open space on the bottom of the tank. Then I use the power head to drag the water up from the bottom. This means the water is pulled constantly through the substrate. The best filter I have ever had. Allows for maximum surface area contact.
4. Lighting, like water is really important. I got rid of my florescant lights years ago, just too expensive. Best lighting is now LED. I use a VISPARSPECTRA 165 watt LED, which is absolutely great because once purchased good for 10 years. I run it at only 40% white, and 70% blue. You will find this on the Internet for in US dollars about 125 bucks. At 55 gallons one will work unless to are going to add corals, then 2. These hang about 12 inches above the tank, no cover, so your PH does rise.

Odds and ends:
1. Never once did any of my pairs of ocellaris refuse an anenome. Now, in 1 case it took 6 months for the pair to use, but all finally made it home. 1 pair even accepted a pink tip. I have now done this 12 times.
2. I never use hermit crabs as clean up. They will eat anything they can catch. Early one morning years ago I watched a hermit walk around my tank with "nemo" in his claws. Last time ever used.
3. Right now my "nemo" fish eat but they feed their anenome as well, Occasionally I target feed with a turkey baster.
4. When putting in new inhabitants, temperature changes from bag to tank are dangerous. I have been more successful in floating the bag in my tank for 1 hour, every 15 minutes I add some tank water. I also measure the SG in the bag to see how much different it is.
5. Never add something you can't test for!

Summary:
Correct water, adjustable lighting, regular water changes and stability are keys to success. Additives, expensive equipment, dosing are for people who do not want to do the water changes. Any saltwater mix like seachem, instant ocean, Red Sea, and the like along with Reverse Osomosis water will keep the correct levels of the multitude of those things that make up sea water which are listed on the bag.

We are sorry to hear of your crash. Something big time seems to be wrong to have wiped out everything. I am not familiar with the poisoning thinking of the anenome, so I will go with the others on this. It's impossible for me to pinpoint the root cause.

You seem to have a good working knowledge of saltwater and if your tank was running for 3 months before, it is odd that everything died so suddenly. Like I said, something killed everything so go slow on your rebuild.

Keep us posted please on your rebuild. My way is not the only way and some may disagree, that OK. Good luck.

This is a pic of one of 3 current softy tanks full of corals, running more than 3 years.image.jpeg
 
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