How much flow through your sump do have?

[Fordemups]

I'm surface skimming with a homemade overflow through the back chamber of my 130d.

I'm circulating about 4 times an hour, with the return going straight into the old chamber of death.

Has anyone experimented to see what works best with the 130d?

Some old school reefers are saying I need much more flow through the sump.

 

[Mike Johnson]

My flow is ten times, my overflow could handle twice that. Careful that you don't pump too close to your max overflow, plus it is quieter when not close to max.

 

[Frankie]

My flow matches my skimmer flow for optimum skimming

 

[Mike Johnson]

Mine does too, now that I think about it.

 

[Frankie]

Agreed Mike. Flow through the sump is about process not return.

 

[Fordemups]

Thanks for the replies. I'm currently working along the lines that less flow for the sump is going to make for better quality skimming.

I wish I could find out what flow works better for my skimmer. I have a Tunze 9011 and the instructions dont mention it. I suppose this gives people licence to find out what works best for themselves. I'd rather some guidance tho - they're the experts.

 

[Frankie]

Not familiar with that skimmer what pump is being used that is what you need to find out

 

[DaveK]

The limitation of how much water you can flow through a sump is limited by the amount of water the overflow can provide. If the overflow can't keep up, your sump will go dry, and you may have a flood.

It doesn't hurt if you can get 10 time an hour turnover, but with yours at 4 you'll be fine. Once you meet the minimum of 4 or 5 times an hour, the additional flow is nice, but not critical. You may want more flow inside the tank, but you can add that with circulation pumps.

As for skimmer flow verses sump flow, it doesn't make too much difference if one is less that the other, or one is more than the other. Except in very unusual circumstances any decent skimmer will work fine, and remove the bad stuff.

Take a look at your tank. How well is your livestock doing? This is the key factor. If that's all doing well, you need not spend any money, time or effort on upgrades to your filtration system. I hate to think of the number of times I upgraded something and, at best, all I got was a marginal improvement. If you do decide to upgrade, make sure you'll get good improvement to your system.

 

[Frankie]

I disagree. The sump is used to process the waste leaving the display tank. All return water is best returned free of this waste, (nutrients, detritus and such) if the flow is to fast that waste is pumped back into the display. This waste can settle in the display causing rises in phosphates and nitrates due to saturation in the rock and sand bed.

 

[cracker]

I'm with Dave K on this,We have a closed system. In my mind it doesn't matter whether You skim a little water a lot or skim a lot of water a little.In a closed system, it's the same. Frankie has a point as well.however it's passing thru as fast in both directions. This is another aspect of this salt keeping endeavor that both sides work. I personally have what I consider high flow thru my sump.

 

[Frankie]

I give you both a thumbs up for you support and believe of your methods.
Over the years I have seen many systems that started out fine only to have issues later from elevated nutrient build up. End results being sand beds and live rock causing these elevations. I have deduced the culprit being not enough dwell time in the sump for waste to be processed by mechanical filtration.
The biological filtration gets overwhelmed for the constant bombardment of nutrients and waste being pumped back into the water column.

 

[reefer gladness]

There are some good points being made. Not taking sides but will just point out a couple things out.

1. The benefits of surface skimming are realized by increasing the amount of turnover going through the overflow (and ultimately the connected sump). These benefits are largely overlooked IMO.

2. In the standard berlin setup, a skimmer rated at 300 GPH in a sump system also running 300 GPH does NOT skim 100% of the water that goes through the sump system - not even close.

Let's say the sump is 20 inches wide and the intake on the skimmer pump is 2 inches - it's simply not possible for all the water to be channeled directly to the skimmer pump. Sure, some of the water re-circulates in the sump and eventually gets skimmed but probably 50% or more of the water passes straight through.

Now if you have an external skimmer and sump is plumbed directly to the skimmer it's a different story but very few of us run these type of systems.

 

[Frankie]

Very nice. I agree it is not possible to skim all the water. my thinking may be skewed a bit from my method of filtration, I rely mainly on the sump and am rewarded by the benefits of biological. I do not just focus on skimmer and use carbon and other such mechanical devices for filtration.

 

[DaveK]

I disagree. The sump is used to process the waste leaving the display tank. All return water is best returned free of this waste, (nutrients, detritus and such) if the flow is to fast that waste is pumped back into the display. This waste can settle in the display causing rises in phosphates and nitrates due to saturation in the rock and sand bed.

When you use a berlin type sump, it's typically going to be used with a filter sock or similar mechanical filtration. This is going to remove and particulate matter that might get into the sandbed or live rock. The liquid wastes the skimmer gets are not a factor here unless the skimmer is way undersized.

Also note that in my original post I also talk about flow in the tank, which will keep much of the particulate matter from settling out in the tank. As long as this stuff doesn't settle out, the filtration system will get it, as long as you have a reasonable flow through it. Obviously if you use something way too small or you'll have issues, but this isn't really a problem in most systems.

As part of good tank maintenance, you should also blow out the LR with a powerhead from time to time, and stir up the top 3/4 inch or so of the sandbed. This will remove particulate matter that accumulates there.

A lot of this material is created by the various things you have living on the sandbed or live rock, so it's going to build up no matter how much flow you have through the filtration.

 

[Frankie]

Good stuff. This thread is getting meat.

 

[Frankie]

So the point being made on faster flow is lifting up and removing dead matter out of the display and sending it to the sump. I am starting to see your point Dave

 

[Frankie]

Please don't misunderstand me I'm not here to attack but too learn. As always

 

[Frankie]

Again, even with a faster flow I do not see the benefits. As you stated David, flow in the display is from other means not the return.
I am going off of my current system which has equal sump flow to the skimmer. Granted, my sump design is different from most other, and the skimmer is first in line, and the dwelling time in the skimmer chamber is longer then most also. Also recirculation plays a factor. I think you mentioned that also.
I just cannot see the benefits of fast sump flow and need more enlightenment on the subject.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I'll give you one reason for faster flow - you can install more than one return outlet and use your return for more current in the aquarium rather than relying on multiple power heads. When I said that my return matches my skimmer you'd have to consider that my skimmer pumps 880 GPH.

 

[Frankie]

Ok, that is a good reason if your using the return for flow, I do not. I use a hidden closed loop. In addition, return is a good surface agitator.
But Imo dwell time in the sump makes more sense for processing. That's why is is a sump, (filtration)
Also I do not use filter socks. Don't see the need. I agree that they remove heavy particulates, but I chose to do more cleaning in the sump then just changing out a sock twice a week.
I clean the entire sump twice a month. Vacuum and glass cleaning.
My skimmer flow is 991 gph, return pump 819 gph. No head loss.
I dial my skimmer pump back. Not for equalization with the return but to up the aire to water contact time in the skimmer.
Here is a quick video of my sump and flow.
Sorry it is not complete yet. Zeovit reactor is being used for carbon at the moment and the rock is not suppose to be there. Just storing it for the meantime until I find a place for it.
Sump: