Hanna vs. Red Sea

[JJB103]

I have had the Red Sea pro test kits for almost 2 years now. I picked up a Alkalinity Hanna checker a little while ago and it is so far off from my Red Sea it scares me. Today tests were as follows
Red Sea: 7.9dkh
Hanna: 5.6dkh

I have done everything from watch videos to read intrusions on both tests kits and I can't personally do them any better. I replaced the battery in the Hanna and I even bought the Hanna alkalinity standards. Nothing seems to make sense of why these two kits are so far off. My tank is doing fine so it can't be as low as 5.6dkh can it?

Has anyone had this experience or have any advice?

 

[Squatch XXL]

Has anyone had this experience or have any advice?

Your tank looks great, I can't agree more. I actually wanted to ask you a specific something after reading 100% of your chronicle last night. You had a crash last year after dousing?

My question to go there was "Have you resumed any dousing?".

My advice to you would be to question both of the test kits, and perhaps find a 3rd company to use as a "tie breaker".

 

[JJB103]

I like the idea of the 3rd test kit. I'll go grab a Salifert.

Yes I dose seachem reef fusion 1 and 2. I had a lot of issues around that time that probably had to do with biopellets as well. I still don't know exactly what happened. I took the advice of a seasons reefer in here to go back to the basics and it worked. I eventually had to start dosing calcium and alkalinity, but that's all I'd dose.

 

[Oxylebius]

Your experience sounds consistent with this article reviewing the product:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/8/review

Note:
Comparing alkalinity results is not straight-forward. The Hanna device estimates alkalinity through colorimetric analysis. Apparently Hanna has made correlation of chromatic shifts (indicating pH) and the impact of an acidic titrant on alkalinity. While making for a quick and convenient test, there are caveats. First, the amount of alkalinity determines the titration endpoint. In addition, the presence or absence of phosphate and/or silica also affects testing protocol.

Bottom line: Alkalinity measurements were consistently higher than those generated by the titration/pH end-point method.

I use the Hanna for Alk. I now base all my readings on it. In many cases, results from colorimeters (and other photometric devices such as spectrometers) are superior to visually judging (comparing) colored samples.

 

[DaveK]

When you get into test kits you find that you can generally divide them into two categories. You have the aquarium hobbyist grade kits such as API, Red Sea, Sea Chem and so on, and the lab grade test kits such as LaMotte and Hach. The lab grade test kits generally give better results but cost a lot more money.

However, it's not that simple. This is because of the readings you get are determined by the exact salt used to mix your water. There are several ways you can make a batch of salt in order to get to the alkalinity reading or any other reading the manufacturer wants.

So use the test kits as a guide. especially when using the aquarium hobbyist grade kits. Also, if your readings are even remotely close to ideal, don't mess with thing.

 

[JJB103]

Your experience sounds consistent with this article reviewing the product:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/8/review

Note:
Comparing alkalinity results is not straight-forward. The Hanna device estimates alkalinity through colorimetric analysis. Apparently Hanna has made correlation of chromatic shifts (indicating pH) and the impact of an acidic titrant on alkalinity. While making for a quick and convenient test, there are caveats. First, the amount of alkalinity determines the titration endpoint. In addition, the presence or absence of phosphate and/or silica also affects testing protocol.

Bottom line: Alkalinity measurements were consistently higher than those generated by the titration/pH end-point method.

I use the Hanna for Alk. I now base all my readings on it. In many cases, results from colorimeters (and other photometric devices such as spectrometers) are superior to visually judging (comparing) colored samples.

Very good article. The only thing that baffles me is my Hanna is the opposite from the article. I am getting far lower readings of alkalinity than the titration (Red Sea Pro) method. I have a hard time believing my alk is really that low.

 

[JJB103]

So use the test kits as a guide. especially when using the aquarium hobbyist grade kits. Also, if your readings are even remotely close to ideal, don't mess with thing.

But which one should I use as a guide? Hanna @ 5.6dkh or Red Sea @ 7.8dkh?

 

[Big Pete]

Hi JJB103

i think a third test kit will certainly ease your worries over this, i use the Hanna test kit and the Salifert KH kit and i have the same issues, the Salifert reads higher, so when my Hanna tells me i am in the right parameters i know all is well.

Both Dave K and Oxy make good points and these guys are the masters when it comes to reefing .

cheers

Big Pete

 

[mtsully71]

Not really much to add, but I just posted this #167 @mtsully71 before I read this thread. Definately think I might look into the Hanna ALK checker

 

[JJB103]

Not really much to add, but I just posted this #167 @mtsully71 before I read this thread. Definately think I might look into the Hanna ALK checker

I just read your post in your thread and I am getting really scared about the Red Sea tests I've been using for years, but in grabbing a Salifert test today to see what is comes up with.

 

[mtsully71]

What did ya get with salifert test?

 

[Oxylebius]

Another good review that might help to shed some light on this: http://reefgizmo.com/2010/10/the-hanna-hi-755-alkalinity-colorimeter-review/

Here are some troubleshooting suggestions:

Verify that you got the marine Alk (HI755) and not the fresh water Alk (HI775) Hanna tester. Verify Hanna instrument and many additional reagents that you purchased.

Prep Before/After Testing

• Always rinse the glassware (vials, etc.), syringes and plungers with tap water and then with RODI water before and after use. Any dust or debris will hinder the Hanna from taking a proper reading.
• Make sure the vial is dry on the outside before taking a reading. Wiping the outside of the vial with a paper towel is all you need to do here.
• And make sure you are wiping fingerprints off the vial prior to each reading taken by the Hanna. Fingerprints can hinder the Hanna from taking a proper reading. There are tissues that come with the test kit for this.

While Testing

• Make sure you are accurately measuring the chemical in the syringe barrel. If you are not used to using a syringe, the plunger reading can be off and this can affect the overall result of your test reading.
  
• Do not let the reacted sample sit for too long prior to taking a reading, it will affect accuracy.
  
• Make sure you don't have any mico-bubbles in the tube after mixing and prior to taking the reading (which for sure would affect the results). To remove bubbles gently tap the vial.
  
• There is a series of error and warning signs that the instrument gives during the reading, these are outlined in the manual that comes with the instrument, are you getting these from your Hanna?
• After sample is taken immediately discard and rinse the vial. Letting the sample sit can affect the tint of the glass by being permanently stained.

Chemicals

• Make sure that the reagents haven't expired. All chemicals expire.

Conversion Calculation

• Make sure you are using the correct calculation to convert units from ppm to dkh. There are many conversion calculators on the web available to use.

As with most things that we manufacture, be it cars or anything else, it seems like there is always a lemon made. You hear about this usually with cars, getting a lemon, where everything goes wrong with it no matter what...... if this is a new Hanna (under warranty) I suggest contacting the company and explaining your issue. Perhaps they will be willing to ship you out a new one to replace the possible lemon that you have.

Syringe Reading:


If in fact the Hanna tester is providing accurate readings (and thus your readings from other kits have been off) then now you can move forward in getting your tank to the proper levels.

If you haven't had issues with your tank in the past, I wouldn't worry that your readings have been off. If you have had issues with our tank (maybe having issues with keeping sps and some lps corals), then maybe this is the cause of the problem (having really low Alk and possible off balance with the Ca levels).

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Great post Sue !!! I love my Hanna Checkers & I don't test as much as many, usually only once a month or so..., unless my corals are looking less than their best, I am also one who believes your corals will tell you when something is off.

Drawing the "correct" amounts imo is a Huge key & the pics are spot on.

I also like to watch these vid again from time to time

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

more... good vids

 

[Pat24601]

Good videos, Glenn!

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Thanks Pat - I can never remember exactly what to do, so each time I test... I watch one, hit pause & do the steps that way I am done in just a few minutes & make sure it done accurately.

 

[Danreef]

My Hana Alk and Salifert have been always giving me the same results.

BUT !!! Once I got a new set of reagents for my Alk Hanna tester and the results were off in 1 unit. ( example: Salifert 7 dkh and Hanna 6). Ordered a new Salifert and the same results. Ordered a new set of Hanna reagents and problem solved. There was an issue with that set of Hanna reagents.

Now I use mostly salifert, because is cheaper and sometimes retest with the Hanna.....and always the same results.

Cheers
Daniel

 

[Oxylebius]

Sounds like the batch of reagents for the Hanna had some issues with them. They are all labeled with a Lot #. One of the articles I provided also commented on something similar that happened to the author.

 

[Pat24601]

One of the things with water testing that probably isn't mentioned enough is that if you are getting a crazy reading, question the test before you question the water. These are hobby grade tests being executed by amateurs. There are many places for errors to creep in. Don't go crazy dosing your tank until you feel confident the test reading is more or less correct. I typically recommend getting a second opinion at your LFS, but there are lot of other options too.

 

[mtsully71]

Another good review that might help to shed some light on this: http://reefgizmo.com/2010/10/the-hanna-hi-755-alkalinity-colorimeter-review/

Here are some troubleshooting suggestions:

Verify that you got the marine Alk (HI755) and not the fresh water Alk (HI775) Hanna tester. Verify Hanna instrument and many additional reagents that you purchased.

Prep Before/After Testing

• Always rinse the glassware (vials, etc.), syringes and plungers with tap water and then with RODI water before and after use. Any dust or debris will hinder the Hanna from taking a proper reading.
• Make sure the vial is dry on the outside before taking a reading. Wiping the outside of the vial with a paper towel is all you need to do here.
• And make sure you are wiping fingerprints off the vial prior to each reading taken by the Hanna. Fingerprints can hinder the Hanna from taking a proper reading. There are tissues that come with the test kit for this.

While Testing

• Make sure you are accurately measuring the chemical in the syringe barrel. If you are not used to using a syringe, the plunger reading can be off and this can affect the overall result of your test reading.
  
• Do not let the reacted sample sit for too long prior to taking a reading, it will affect accuracy.
  
• Make sure you don't have any mico-bubbles in the tube after mixing and prior to taking the reading (which for sure would affect the results). To remove bubbles gently tap the vial.
  
• There is a series of error and warning signs that the instrument gives during the reading, these are outlined in the manual that comes with the instrument, are you getting these from your Hanna?
• After sample is taken immediately discard and rinse the vial. Letting the sample sit can affect the tint of the glass by being permanently stained.

Chemicals

• Make sure that the reagents haven't expired. All chemicals expire.

Conversion Calculation

• Make sure you are using the correct calculation to convert units from ppm to dkh. There are many conversion calculators on the web available to use.

As with most things that we manufacture, be it cars or anything else, it seems like there is always a lemon made. You hear about this usually with cars, getting a lemon, where everything goes wrong with it no matter what...... if this is a new Hanna (under warranty) I suggest contacting the company and explaining your issue. Perhaps they will be willing to ship you out a new one to replace the possible lemon that you have.

Syringe Reading:


If in fact the Hanna tester is providing accurate readings (and thus your readings from other kits have been off) then now you can move forward in getting your tank to the proper levels.

If you haven't had issues with your tank in the past, I wouldn't worry that your readings have been off. If you have had issues with our tank (maybe having issues with keeping sps and some lps corals), then maybe this is the cause of the problem (having really low Alk and possible off balance with the Ca levels).