Giving advice

[MNRAM]

Hello to all.

I'm just wondering about new posts and why is it that when you do a new post, you get 2 or 3 answers/suggestions, and then everyone stops responding, what is up with that? I'm having a
a catastrophe with my leather corals, they have been sucked in for 2 weeks. Now my birds nests are bleaching out. Two people responded with some good advice, and then everyone disappeared not to be heard from again.
I know that there are folks out there that have been in the hobby for decades. Are you folks bored with all of the questions you think you've seen on this web site along with many more sites and have seen the same question? You have probably seen every question asked many times over. But there are others that don't know all of the answers, me included. I don't want to sit back and watch my tank crash, while others have some answers, but don't feel like helping out with their knowledge and are looking for new questions that they may have never seen. If there are none, they go on to the next site to maybe find a questions that they have never seen.

Sorry, I just needed to vent and find some answers.

 

[DaveK]

First, I will state that I'm not trying to beat up on you. Everyone was new at one time.

First lets look at your original post about leather corals -

I saw a couple of posts about people with their leathers being all (as I call it) sucked in. Well, mine have also sucked in, all 5 of them.

In the past one or two would suck in, but not all within a day or so. I tested my water with all ten test kits and all were great. I took a water sample to my LFS (the owner is an Ichthyologist) and he said that my nitrates were a little high and the rest of my perms were normal. I came home and re-tested the nitrates and they were ZERO, so that means another API test kit is bad. I bought it six months ago. I happened to buy a Red Sea Nitrate test kit and tested the water. It was off the scale, I looked at the expiration date on the bottom of the kit and it expired 05/15, I bought it 03/16. That tells me to look at the expiration date before I buy any test kit.

I did a 25% water change yesterday and lo and behold, all of my leathers are still sucked in today. Any ideas???

Note that this is a very general post with very little specific information. Because of this, it is not possible to give you too much beyond a very general response.

Additional things people would want to know would be -
How big is the tank?
What kind of filtration and skimming do you have on the tank?
What kind of water flow do you have in the tank?
What are you exact water parameters? Statements such as "all parameters are good" do not convey any information. What you think is ok may indicate a serious problem to someone else.
What kind of lighting do you have and how long do you run it?
What livestock do you have in the tank? fish, corals, and inverts. Some of them will eat corals.
How long have you had the tank set up?
How deep is your sandbed?
How much live rock do you have?
Are you using any additives?
what and how often are you feeding?
How long did you have the corals in question?
When you got them, did you dip your corals, and what dip did you use?

A few pictures of the overall tank, and the specific corals your having a problem with can sometimes help a lot.

Anything else you can tell us about the tank con sometimes help. You need not write a book, but if you had a major problem in the recent past, it may help if you mention it.

Once you get some advice here, what did you do with your system? What sort of results did you get? In other words. "what changed", for better or for worse.

It is also possible that others on the forum thing you already got good advice from someone, and they need not repeat it. Others may feel it's outside their area of expertise. I haven't kept everything, and for some of the more unusual live stock many will know a lot more about it.

Lastly, you need to give people a chance to respond. Not everyone can keep up with everything on the forum, or log on every day.

 

[MNRAM]

I appreciate that Dave.

First of all, no one asked me ONE question to what you have stated. I could have responded
to all, well most of them.

As far as taking time for folks to respond, I figured that over two weeks everyone that was going to
respond would have done it in that time period.

Maybe I jumped the gun, and I do apologize for that, but when your corals are dying off (not only my leather corals), I was hoping for a quicker response on how to save my $6,000.00 worth of corals.

I will be more patient if I can save my tank. If you don't see me posting, I won't need to post at all, my tank will be gone. I will start a new tank with FOWLR.

Thanks Dave

 

[AFrederick]

MNRAM,

I kind of know how you feel watching your animals not doing well and not knowing how to help. It is frustrating. I'm having trouble with my corals right now too. One didn't look good and I thought my Ca and Alk were off so I started supplementing. Then my others didn't look good. I probably supplemented too much, too quickly.

I am very new at reef tanks but one thing I have read over and over in many different places is how much you can help your tank just by doing regular water changes.

I stopped the supplementing and I have started doing small, daily water changes to try and achieve stability in my tank. It is only day 4 of this campaign but the corals already seem to be responding well.

Maybe increasing the frequency of water changes could help?

 

[Paul B]

Hello to all.

I know that there are folks out there that have been in the hobby for decades. Are you folks bored with all of the questions you think you've seen on this web site along with many more sites and have seen the same question? You have probably seen every question asked many times over.

Sorry, I just needed to vent and find some answers.

Mnram. Unfortunately that is the nature of a beast when virtually millions of people have reef tanks now and almost all of them have a different opinion of what your problem could be. I have been in the hobby since 1952 and I don't know what is wrong with your coral so I won't even try to give an explanation. I realize that sounds harsh and I don't mean it to be. Dave is correct about giving details but even with those details, no one would be able to give you any real advice without actually seeing your system. With all my experience I still lose corals and many times I don't know the reason.
I am not sure if it is your problem but many times we fail to realize that almost all corals exude toxins that are designed to eliminate corals that are close to them in the sea. If these toxins are designed to work in the sea, imagine what they can do in a small volume of water. We can't test for these things because they eventually degrade but their toxicity probably varies according to the phases of the moon. Our corals don't "see" the moon any more so I am sure they are all screwed up. But I am also sure that is the cause of many coral failures. As I said, I don't know what is wrong with your corals but leathers and birds nests both exude toxins. I once lost a tank full of large, old leathers when I started to add SPS corals. Was it toxins? I don't really know and neither does anyone else.
The second part of my rather vague answer as to why experienced people do not respond is because like you said, we have gotten tired of trying to give an explanation from our experience, in my case 44 years with salt water, and having 17 people come and say we are wrong because they have the same coral for 6 weeks and it is fine, or dose calcium, strontium, iodine, Dr. Pepper etc. even though that probably worked for them once or twice. The answer (that you don't want to hear) is we really don't know and would only be guessing. If I knew the answer, I would certainly tell you. I don't go on many threads any more for those reasons. I won't comment on ich threads, hair algae, ground probes or GFCIs. There is just to much controversy and not enough facts. (and I have gotten to old to argue) So my recommendation is if you find a veteran in this hobby who seems to have the same types of corals you are keeping, PM him or her and hope they will respond. But as I said, no one including Jacques Cousteau (if he were still alive) will not know the exact reason.
If I had to come up with a theory, I would say to add a Poly Filter as that would "probably" eliminate coral toxins as I added one to my tank just after some of my montipora and torch corals died. It stopped them from dying but it could just be a fluke (or flounder) as I can't be positive that that was the "cure". Sorry I can't give you a 100% definite answer and if anyone else does, They are just guessing, But hopefully they can guess better than I can.
Sorry and good luck.
This was my reef probably over 20 years ago. The top picture was featured in FAMMA marine coral magazine. I lost that large, old leather and all my leathers in a few days after adding other corals for no "apparent" reason.


Paul

 

[MNRAM]

Thanks Pual, I appreciate everything you said, I have read many, many of your threads and
I know your prowess when it comes to sw tanks.

I'll just have to wait and see what my leathers do. I re-did all of my perms again yesterday
and all the test come back as before, they are all normal.

Thanks Paul

 

[MNRAM]

MNRAM,

I kind of know how you feel watching your animals not doing well and not knowing how to help. It is frustrating. I'm having trouble with my corals right now too. One didn't look good and I thought my Ca and Alk were off so I started supplementing. Then my others didn't look good. I probably supplemented too much, too quickly.

I am very new at reef tanks but one thing I have read over and over in many different places is how much you can help your tank just by doing regular water changes.

I stopped the supplementing and I have started doing small, daily water changes to try and achieve stability in my tank. It is only day 4 of this campaign but the corals already seem to be responding well.

Maybe increasing the frequency of water changes could help?

 

[MNRAM]

Thanks AFrederick

I have a 80gal Nuvo, with displacement of sand (25 lbs.) rock approx. (150lbs.), and fish and corals it is about a 50 gal tank, if that. And out of thin air all of my leathers closed up shop and that's closing over two weeks ago. All of my perms are normal, and not all test kits are reliable, so ???????

A little history. I did a 10gal water change when I saw them. That didn't seem to help, so I did another 10 gal. Two days later, I did a 20 gal wc, 2 days later, I did another 20 gal. Yesterday, I did a 10 gal.
nothing has changed.

I have been in sw off and on since 1976. But the only anemone and coral I ever had was a carpet anemone, and a piece of leather, and the rest of my 75 gal. tank were predator fish and some huge hermits with no problems. I had to get out of it until I landed a great paying job in 1979 and started again, with no problems.
Then in 1991 I bought a 240 gal, 84gal (one of the first wet dry tank in Las Vegas, NV), a 75 gal, and a 30 gal in a two year time spand. The 30gal tank of which I fed some of the predator fish with gold fish, never a problem. I lost it all in a divorce.

At that time the rule of thumb was, don't do a sw tank less than 75 gal. I'm sure that Paul and Dave remember that. Now I've seen 5 gallon sw tanks. It just baffles my mind, which is not too hard at my age (68). SW has changed so much it's hard to keep up with all of it.

I really do hope that you have healthy corals and fish with no problems AFrederick

Thanks for your response.....Mark

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

EDIT: I want to preface this post by saying that NONE of this is meant to be mean spirited or harsh. I'm just giving my point of view.

Thanks Pual, I appreciate everything you said, I have read many, many of your threads and
I know your prowess when it comes to sw tanks.

I'll just have to wait and see what my leathers do. I re-did all of my perms again yesterday
and all the test come back as before, they are all normal.

Thanks Paul

What does normal mean? Normal Ca levels in a FO tank might be around 380ppm. Normal seawater Ca levels around 410 - 420ppm. These, however, are not normal for me. I want mine slightly elevated around 450 to help with coralline/coral growth. Additionally, if your Ca has been consistently testing around 450 and one day it tests around 410 or 380 with no reason, this is also not normal, even though it's in the range of normal that most reef keepers shoot for. The levels not only have to be within range, they also have to be consistent. In your additional post, you mentioned that the LFS owner tested your water, and that the results were normal. Again, what is "normal", and how in line is it with your historical values for these parameters? Do you have historical test data against which you can compare your most recent test results?

Along with what Dave mentioned, not trying to be harsh here, but this is the only information I was able to get from your original post about your leathers:

My leathers look bad. Test results are normal. Everything should be fine, but it isn't. What's wrong?

Really that's a bit oversimplified, but unfortunately, there wasn't much information there for us to figure out what may have changed to cause this change in behavior. It's not the olden days of reef keeping where everyone runs a UGF/RUGF and NO T8s. I'd doubt two reef systems are even remotely alike. It's almost impossible for us to provide any meaningful input on your situation. Without you explicitly telling us every little detail about your tank, we're stuck. Even then, nobody has seen it all, so exact answers are going to be difficult to come by.

In order to better help, we need to know everything we can about your tank. We need to know the size, the inhabitants, how much live rock/sand, what type of filtration, your water change schedule, your water source, your TDS results from your water source, what salt mix you use, how old the mix is, if anything (and I mean literally ANYTHING) has changed in the last 3 months or so, and anything else you can think of. There is a chance that corals can spontaneously die, as they're complex biological creatures... however, the more likely scenario is that something changed to cause this behavior.

Also, it took about 30 minutes to write this post. I'm not the most important man in the world, but still that's 30 minutes of my time gone. I'm not complaining, as I'm glad to help.. but after asking the same questions over and over again, along the way having to explain why you're asking the questions, you do get a little jaded.

We're all just making guesses here. The more information we have, the more informed the guesses can be.

 

[Paul B]

[QUOTE It's not the olden days of reef keeping where everyone runs a UGF/RUGF be.[/QUOTE]

I still do.

 

[Pat24601]

Hello to all.

I'm just wondering about new posts and why is it that when you do a new post, you get 2 or 3 answers/suggestions, and then everyone stops responding, what is up with that? I'm having a
a catastrophe with my leather corals, they have been sucked in for 2 weeks. Now my birds nests are bleaching out. Two people responded with some good advice, and then everyone disappeared not to be heard from again.
I know that there are folks out there that have been in the hobby for decades. Are you folks bored with all of the questions you think you've seen on this web site along with many more sites and have seen the same question? You have probably seen every question asked many times over. But there are others that don't know all of the answers, me included. I don't want to sit back and watch my tank crash, while others have some answers, but don't feel like helping out with their knowledge and are looking for new questions that they may have never seen. If there are none, they go on to the next site to maybe find a questions that they have never seen.

Sorry, I just needed to vent and find some answers.

I read your original post and I just had no idea how I could help. I didn't have any good ideas. That doesn't mean I don't care. I just don't know.

 

[PCDS]

Regular updates also keeps your post on the front page when people log on. Also think about doing a "search" for leather coral problems. You might find an old thread describing a similar problem. I have read a lot of posts on this forum and it is clear the more information you can provide the more likely some one can come up with an idea to help you.
You have my sympathy - I had a major tank crash a couple of years ago with widespread hair algae and lost virtually all my corals. It was mainly fish only until recently.
It was clear my tank was overstocked and my nitrates high. I have given up two of my largest fish after listening to very good advice from RS members. I hope things improve in your tank.

 

[MNRAM]

I want to first of all, thank all you for giving me some sound advice.
Second of all, I want to thank those of you that put me straight.



Finally, all of my leathers are our and feeding. It was totally my fault. I bought
some new hanging led fixtures. I tried adjusting them accordingly. I put
them with not enough light for them.
Live Aquaria said they like moderate to high lighting. Evidently my moderate lighting
was too moderate.

I searched and searched for a possible threads that could maybe explain my situation,
but after searching around 60 threads on 4 sites. I was falling asleep at my computer.
I also did updates hoping someone else had some ideas.

The next time I have a problem I will include as much information as I possibly can, from perms to what kind of sand I use, without being asked to.

Thanks to all!!

 

[MNRAM]

Thanks Pat, at least someone agreed with me.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

One more tip ... start a tank thread, share your tank with us, post lots of pics

be active in others tank threads, sharing thoughts & advise or just posting compliments & encouragement

then in your thread... when you ask for help, I bet you will get even more help ... at least that seems to be my observation from reading lots of post

hope this helps !

 

[MNRAM]

One more tip ... start a tank thread, share your tank with us, post lots of pics

be active in others tank threads, sharing thoughts & advise or just posting compliments & encouragement

then in your thread... when you ask for help, I bet you will get even more help ... at least that seems to be my observation from reading lots of post

hope this helps !

That would not be a problem if I knew how to download my new pics. Photo Bucket doesn't make it easy. I have pics I can download, but they are all old. When I try to put the new pics in my profile it won't allow it.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Try this... real easy...
on a pic in photobucket, just right click on it, then click on Copy Image Address, paste that into the little picture frame icon, you see in every post (next to smile & the filmstrip icon) when you add it there your pic will appear

give it a go & if you need any help, just let me know... once you get the hang of it, real easy... click, click paste & they appear

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

PS to upload pics to photobucket, if you happen to have an iphone, there is a photobucket fre app, with it you can take a pic, have it loaded to photobucket & then inserted in a post here in less than a minute

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

another choice is have RS host them...

How to Post a Picture - RS hosted

Lots of us use Photobucket to host our pics - but RS can "host" them too...

to do that... click here (Media Button) below...

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?media/

then on top right - click on the button ADD MEDIA from this page - and upload a pic from your pc

once loaded it's easy to display - right click on it - copy image url & click on the Picture Frame Icon in any post, add it there & it will show up

If you have any question feel free to ask, more than happy to help ! As some nice RS member once help me !

 

[MNRAM]

The problem I am having with PBucket is; I can't download newer pics that I have taken on two cameras. My digital camera and my Android phone. I tried for over 2 hours to download new pics and
could not do it. I downloaded a ton of pics when I first joined PBucket, but can't download the new. I hate to do it, but I guess I will have to delete the pics that I had from the start and try to do new ones.
I'm just about done with PBucket. Yes, you say PBucket is easy to download pics, so why haven't I been able to post new pics? My tank is always changing. I have no problem at all with ancient pics, I just can't download NEW pics.

Is RS going to do an app for Android phones? I will try to use the new instructions you sent me. I will see if I can download new photos. I guarantee I will be in the running for tank of the month, and maybe pic of the month.

You know when I post a thread asking why are all of my leathers are sucked in, I get two or three people trying to help me, but when I post a thread giving advice, everyone and their brothers jump into give me advice on what I should do when I post. From about 7 tests I do to find a problem, to telling me I should do give about 25 things I should have put in a post. Don't you think that is a little bit of over kill?

Thank you