Copper conundrum!!!!

Lisa Cochrane

Lisa Cochrane

Member
Hi
I have just set up my hospital tank and moved the fish in, i have a tank which is holding 60L of SW at a salinity of 1,019
I could not get hold of any Cupramine in time( but its on order) so went for Esha Trimarin. it stated to dose 15 drops for dose 1, but to halve for a spare tank, so i went with 10 drops, did another 4 today as it stated 7.
I tested for copper this evening and test did not show any trace!!!! its a seachem copper test kit. i have no carbon in the tank a few pieces of LR a sponge air fliter and a fluval filter with sponge only.

Heres the conundrum.... should i take test results at face value and up the dose? or carry on dosing normally 4 drops tomorrow?
Then do I keep dosing or just do the 3 days?
The cupramine but it won't be here for 3 or 4 days yet, My lovely little box fish is looking poorly :-(

help and advise please......
 
D

DaveK

Well-Known Member
You don't mention what your treating for, so I'm assuming it SW ich.

I can't find out much information on the medication, Esha Trimarin. Even the manufacturer's web pages don't tell us much, other than it treats all sorts of aquarium diseases. This leaves me to suspect that it's one of those useless treatment products. I tend to be very skeptical about any product that doesn't tell us what is in it.

Because we don't know what is in it, it's not possible to determine if there should be any copper in the water or not.

One thing that might help is to give your fish a FW dip. See the procedure in the disease treatment section. The FW used should be at the same temp and pH as your tank. This may provide some relief but it seldom cures anything.
 
Lisa Cochrane

Lisa Cochrane

Member
Hi Thanks for looking for me, Yes sorry it is SW ich.
I gave them a 5-10 min FW dip with RO water, before they went into QT. at same temp as tank.
The ingredients on bottle state that it si

copper sulfate 22.9 mg
ethacridine lactate 5.0mg
proflavine hemisulphate 0.7mg in water.

the main reason I brought this one was as it contains no formaldehyde which i was told is very toxic and a lot of the treatments contained it.
As I am treating a box fish and a valentino puffer, which can be sensitive to treatment , also ( 2 X clowns & 1 x Damsel).
I guess i should just carry on for now until i get the Cupramine?
 
nanoreefing4fun

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
you can right click on your pics, select copy image url & this syntax around it
and they will appear :dance:

2ihm939.jpg


2jc7q8i.jpg



Beautiful fish - here hoping you whip the ich & they recover !
 
D

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I see a possible problem. It looks like you have placed some live rock in the quarantine tank and then treated. Because of what live rock is, it will absorb copper, and this might be why your reading was zero when you tested the water.

It would be best to replace the live rock with something inert. Many people use sections of PVC pipe and fittings to give the fish a few places to hide.

The live rock that got treated should not be returned to the main tank. It can leach copper back into the water for long periods of time.
 
PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
Yes, +1 to Dave above. That live rock is no longer suitable for your display tank. Unless you had a seeded sponge, it will take a bit for your bacteria to populate so you'll need to maintain water parameters via water changes. If treating with copper, keep the salinity normal, 1.022-26 - no need to drop it.

Keep them well fed and remove any jneaten food and like Dave said, get PVC fittings/elbow for the fish to hide in and remove the LR.
 
Lisa Cochrane

Lisa Cochrane

Member
I bought the live rock for the hospital tank, so wasn't from my DT. was advised by a fish guru in the shop to still use it or else the fish would die from ammonia poisoning.
I will remove tomorrow and get some piping, see how that goes, I did my last dose of Trimarin today( no change in fish so far) and bought some water life- Cuprazin today, it says to get other meds out first and run carbon for 4 days and then to use. is this correct? or can i do a day of poly filter and carbon, then remove the rock and do a large WC and add??
 
PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
Mac photos are the same.

About the copper, really try to get cupramine.

About the live rock, and I'm being honest here, any local fish store that tells you to use live rock is just trying to sell you live rock. The copper kills it and its useless. What makes sense is that he wanted to use it to help with ammonia but it loses its ability as the copper kills the good bacteria over time or at least lessens it. Hospital tanks = water changes to maintain water quality, don't rely on anything else. Hospital tanks also = medication. Now if you were doing a qt tank I could accept the live rock play but not a hospital tank.

What I do, with success but I'm no pro, is keep a foam filter in my sump and after 4 weeks its seeded with bacteria just like like rock..... Great for a qt tank and using that you need less water changes (still recommended). With a hospital tank, rely on water changes for the duration of the medicine treatment and once removed you can use either sacrificial live rock or a seeded sponge (even if its only been in the tank for 2 weeks). Keep in mind that any new live rock to a "clean" hospital tank could introduce more virus/bacteria/ich and so can a sponge..... This is why water changes are great. Buy cheap salt too, you'll go through it!

Check out the fish disease forum, great stickies from a legit pro in there

Best if luck my friend :)
 
Lisa Cochrane

Lisa Cochrane

Member
Thanks for info, I'm off to home base for some pipes in the morning.
Could I trouble you once more to let me know about how long I need to wait now until I re-dose? & do I need to make sure I clear the tank of this medication first? even if its not showing up any copper.
 
PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
Lisa,
I'm not familiar with the medication you're using. What do the directions say? Usually, medication is added at a certain concentration and stays there unless its removed chemically or through water changes. Cupramine for example needs to be at a .5 concentration.
 
Lisa Cochrane

Lisa Cochrane

Member
Hi thats the problem, the directions don't say much at all!! just to, dose for 3 days, not to overdose, it also says WC's are not necessary after using unless quality is poor. I did add the ingredients to an above post if you wanted to check them out.
I think am going to remove the LR today and wait till the Cupramine arrives, do a WC, just not sure if i should put carbon back in or not?
 
PSU4ME

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
I would do a large water change and run heavy carbon. You want to remove the old medication before you add the new medication.

make sure you have a copper test......you'll need to measure the cupramine concentration
 
Lisa Cochrane

Lisa Cochrane

Member
box fish today after a 40 min Dip in fresh RO
xxxx://tinypic.com/m/i5r9kj/xxxx[img]
[img]xxxx://tinypic.com/m/i5r9kg/xxxx[img]
 
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