Chems went crazy

[RyanC]

hello all,
Ok so my chems didn’t go crazy but they did change on me quite a bit. My levels have been quite steady since I started testing myself, sept 17. Before that I went to the LFS and had them done and I never asked the numbers but was told they were all good. My levels have been:
Ph-8
Ammonia-0-.125 on API but seachum ammonia alert is always at yellow. I know I need a better kit and I am in the process of getting one.
Nitrite-0
Nitrates-20/30. It’s higher than it should be but no corals and I started doing 25% water changes last weekend to try and knock it down
Salinity-1.021
I last tested on the 23rd and tonight I wanted to test before I did my water change tomorrow. Levels tested at
Ph-7.8
Ammonia- between .5-1 on API but seachum is still at yellow. Tested twice
Nitrites-0
Nitrates-40
Salinity-1.022

My 2 clowns look fine and my inverts are acting normal as usual but I got spooked so I just went ahead and did a 25% water change now instead of the morning like I planned. I tested ammonia 2 times and had my wife review my findings and she sees the same as me. I clean pools for a living so reading and testing the water isn’t too hard for me to do and the colors are pretty easy for me to tell what they are reading. I’m going to test the water again in a couple hours. Did I get to nervous? Is my seachum more dependable than my API until I get a better kit? Thanks for any help.

 

[DaveK]

A few points -
Not having the actual numbers from your LFS it a total waste. A statement like " was told they were all good" doesn't tell you anything. Even if they did all the tests correctly, you don't know that actual numbers. What they think is OK might mean disaster for your tank.

You need a decent ammonia test kit. API test kits are very marginal, and I wouldn't trust them. I also wouldn't trust a seachem ammonia alert either. On the plus side, once the tank is running a few months, you can usually stop testing for ammonia, unless you see an obvious problem.

Any ammonia reading other than 0 indicates a tank not yet cycles or in serious trouble. .5 - 1 for ammoina is a problem, but this could also be your test kit.

As a tank does it's initial cycle, it's not unusual to see high nitrate readings. These need to be worked on, but do not panic and above all do not chase numbers.

Your salinity is a bit low, but not critical. If you don't already have one, invest in a refractometer and use that. It's a lot more accurate, and has far fewer problems.

Your pH is low, but do not mess with this until the salinity is corrected and do not mess with it until you fully understand the relationship between pH, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium and how changing one of these can cause problems in the other areas. Yep, you going to need a few more test kits here.

Above all, your livestock is the best indicator of how your tank is doing. If a reading is off, do not panic and do not try to chase numbers. It's very easy to turn a minor problem into a major disaster by incorrectly messing with water parameters.

Here is a post I made on test kits awhile back. It's worth repeating -

DaveK's Standard Lecture #4 – Test Kits

There are a host of items that you may wish to test for in a reef system.

First before you worry about the other tests, make sure your SG is correct. I highly recommend using a refractometer for this measurement. Aquarium grade hydrometers tend to be very inaccurate, especially when used over time.

Once you have the SG correct you'll need the following test kits for the initial cycle -
pH (This can also be done via a pH meter, which is more accurate, and expensive)
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate (low range)

To properly monitor the water, especially for corals, these these kits are often used -
KH or Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Phosphate

There are a host of other test kits you can get. I have some of them but do not typically use them.
Iodine - only needed if you are dousing iodine, which is not something I recommend.
Copper - only needed if you are treating a disease in a QT tank with copper.
Silicate - only needed if you suspect a problem with silicate in the water.
Strontium - only needed if dousing strontium

I think I've covered most of the major ones.

Each test kit works differently, so you need to consult the manufacturers instructions for each test.

As for brands, in aquarium grade test kits I like Elos, SeaChem and Salifret. Hach and LaMotte test kits are excellent, but extremely expensive. Most of the others are ok. Like anything else you get what you pay for.

If you do get a reading that seems way off, repeat the test, and if it still seems way off, use another brand test kit and repeat the test. In other words, consider that the test kit may be wrong.

You'll notice that you most likely will need to get a lot of test kits. It's often a lot less expensive to order them via the net, and you'll also know the test kit hasn't been sitting on the LFS shelf for years.

 

[RyanC]

A few points -
Not having the actual numbers from your LFS it a total waste. A statement like " was told they were all good" doesn't tell you anything. Even if they did all the tests correctly, you don't know that actual numbers. What they think is OK might mean disaster for your tank.

You need a decent ammonia test kit. API test kits are very marginal, and I wouldn't trust them. I also wouldn't trust a seachem ammonia alert either. On the plus side, once the tank is running a few months, you can usually stop testing for ammonia, unless you see an obvious problem.

Any ammonia reading other than 0 indicates a tank not yet cycles or in serious trouble. .5 - 1 for ammoina is a problem, but this could also be your test kit.

As a tank does it's initial cycle, it's not unusual to see high nitrate readings. These need to be worked on, but do not panic and above all do not chase numbers.

Your salinity is a bit low, but not critical. If you don't already have one, invest in a refractometer and use that. It's a lot more accurate, and has far fewer problems.

Your pH is low, but do not mess with this until the salinity is corrected and do not mess with it until you fully understand the relationship between pH, alkalinity, calcium and magnesium and how changing one of these can cause problems in the other areas. Yep, you going to need a few more test kits here.

Above all, your livestock is the best indicator of how your tank is doing. If a reading is off, do not panic and do not try to chase numbers. It's very easy to turn a minor problem into a major disaster by incorrectly messing with water parameters.

Here is a post I made on test kits awhile back. It's worth repeating -

DaveK's Standard Lecture #4 – Test Kits

There are a host of items that you may wish to test for in a reef system.

First before you worry about the other tests, make sure your SG is correct. I highly recommend using a refractometer for this measurement. Aquarium grade hydrometers tend to be very inaccurate, especially when used over time.

Once you have the SG correct you'll need the following test kits for the initial cycle -
pH (This can also be done via a pH meter, which is more accurate, and expensive)
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate (low range)

To properly monitor the water, especially for corals, these these kits are often used -
KH or Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Phosphate

There are a host of other test kits you can get. I have some of them but do not typically use them.
Iodine - only needed if you are dousing iodine, which is not something I recommend.
Copper - only needed if you are treating a disease in a QT tank with copper.
Silicate - only needed if you suspect a problem with silicate in the water.
Strontium - only needed if dousing strontium

I think I've covered most of the major ones.

Each test kit works differently, so you need to consult the manufacturers instructions for each test.

As for brands, in aquarium grade test kits I like Elos, SeaChem and Salifret. Hach and LaMotte test kits are excellent, but extremely expensive. Most of the others are ok. Like anything else you get what you pay for.

If you do get a reading that seems way off, repeat the test, and if it still seems way off, use another brand test kit and repeat the test. In other words, consider that the test kit may be wrong.

You'll notice that you most likely will need to get a lot of test kits. It's often a lot less expensive to order them via the net, and you'll also know the test kit hasn't been sitting on the LFS shelf for years.

Thanks for the information. The LFS did give me the readings, I just didn’t write them down and when they told me they are good I had asked if they were in the parameters. For the most part my fish and inverts are fine. My emerald crab isn’t coming out like he usually does when I feed the fish and I can’t find my cleaner shrimp anywhere. Other than that everyone else is doing exactly what they always do. How can I increase my salinity? I buy my saltwater from my local fish store and tested it today before the water change and it was at 1.022. I’ve already asked the wife for a RODI unit for Christmas and have been given the go ahead to build a saltwater mixing station so I can do my own mixing but until then I have just the LFS to go from. Should I buy salt and add more to the solution? Next payday I am ordering my refractometer.

 

[DaveK]

It's easy enough to just add SW to replace evaporated water until you get to the desired SG. However you have a problem with your LFS mixing the water too low. It's also likely that other parameters like calcium and alkalinity are off. All this is not always the LFS's fault. Many salt mixes have instructions on the package that mix the salt to these lower levels. It's a sneaky way to give you a bit less for your money.

Best thing to do here is get your own RO/DI unit and salt and mix your own. Considering how much a LFS charges for SW getting these items usually pay for themselves. When looking don't be afraid to look online you'll often find much better prices. If you order salt online, make sure it includes free shipping or you know the exact amount for shipping. Salt is heavy and shipping can sometimes be almost as much as the salt.

 

[RyanC]

It's easy enough to just add SW to replace evaporated water until you get to the desired SG. However you have a problem with your LFS mixing the water too low. It's also likely that other parameters like calcium and alkalinity are off. All this is not always the LFS's fault. Many salt mixes have instructions on the package that mix the salt to these lower levels. It's a sneaky way to give you a bit less for your money.

Best thing to do here is get your own RO/DI unit and salt and mix your own. Considering how much a LFS charges for SW getting these items usually pay for themselves. When looking don't be afraid to look online you'll often find much better prices. If you order salt online, make sure it includes free shipping or you know the exact amount for shipping. Salt is heavy and shipping can sometimes be almost as much as the salt.

I have my saltwater mixing station on my Christmas list to Santa aka wife. The LFS store I frequent has a lot of discount equipment they refurbish and everything. I know they use Fritz salt which is the one I was looking at using myself. I haven’t seen my cleaner shrimp in about 24 hours, could that be the cause of the ammonia spike if he died?

 

[DaveK]

Keep in mind that an LFS often uses a cheep salt over a high quality one since they are mixing large volumes of water. That being said the salt your looking at using seems ok. I have not personally used it.

It's possible a dead cleaner shrimp is causing the ammonia spike. However your tank is also still new and could be going through it's initial cycle.

 

[Uncle99]

Cleaners hide for up to 4-5 days after molt so their new shell will hardened up, they are more open for attack in this period before, he'll be back likely, molting tends to be triggered by water parameter flux, maybe the water changes...

 

[RyanC]

Cleaners hide for up to 4-5 days after molt so their new shell will hardened up, they are more open for attack in this period before, he'll be back likely, molting tends to be triggered by water parameter flux, maybe the water changes...

Cleaner shed on 22nd of sept and could be seen up until last Friday. He was in a hiding spot but was in sight. I got in my tank Sunday and lifted the rock it likes to hide in and nothing. My tank is small and not too many places he could hide like that. Plus I lost 3 hermits and an emerald crab this weekend. After research and talking to some on these forums, I did a 25% water change, added prime and 2 oz of fritz turbo start yesterday. Pretty sure between cleaning the media in tap water and weekly, I killed off the beneficial bacteria and when the cleaner died the ammonia spike couldn’t be contained. Hopefully this works. Losing the emerald crab was b probably the worst. He was the family favorite

 

[Uncle99]

Sad to hear. I am not a fan of any crabs including the famous emerald. That being said I do loves the shrimps, but they limit certain inhabitants
Too much trouble over the years and never ever controlled algae.
I found it was just easier to keep perfect water, then CUC has no relevance.

 

[RyanC]

Sad to hear. I am not a fan of any crabs including the famous emerald. That being said I do loves the shrimps, but they limit certain inhabitants
Too much trouble over the years and never ever controlled algae.
I found it was just easier to keep perfect water, then CUC has no relevance.

I knew going into this 40 galtank my inhiatants would be small and few 6-8 probably fish wise. My wish list for this tank are all good with inverts. What I didn’t really look into was the CUC crew until I was a month into cycling and I got to say, they are cool as hell for my. I like the nassarius snails coming up from the sand and the emerald crab aka chewy was pretty cool. The cleaner shrimp really never came out, it was always in a spot where u could see it but not fully visible. I think when I get my water parameters back in check I’m going to get another emerald but this time a fire shrimp. They are much prettier. I never thought I’d like the inverts as much as the fish. It will be more difficult when I go with a bigger tank and start getting different fish. I may go CUCless at that point.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Sounds to me like you're moving kinda fast. From reading your post, it appears the tank is new - perhaps only a month or two old?

I'm currently gathering equipment to build a 180g reef. I'll be sitting here looking at an empty tank cycling for probably a minimum 8--10 weeks before I even think about adding a fish.

This is a slow hobby. Patience is rewarded.

 

[Uncle99]

Yes, yes, speed does kill.
The fire shrimp will hide even more than the skunk, but I agree, much prettier.
Remember for shrimps, gorgonians, and leathers, manage iodide .03-.06, no more no less.....