Carbon?

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
I don't know about you but often we put things into our tanks and then are not sure if there is a real benefit or if to carry on with it or not?

I'm having that debate with Carbon at the moment for my RSM C130. The Red Sea carbon is very convenient for these tanks, just rinse in RO water and leave in the media rack up to two months. So its really easy to use but is there a real benefit or does it just take out the organics which the skimmer would do anyway?

Decisions, Decisions...:turtle2:
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
I run chemi pure elite, which is both carbon and gfo. I believe a lot of us do that.

I believe that carbon helps with organic compounds that aren't all captured by the skimmer and can also help with toxins when corals engage in chemical warfare.

I guess I don't know either of those things for certain, but if I'm wrong a lot of others are wrong with me. :).

I do believe my water does substantially better when I've stayed on top of keeping my chemi pure up to date. The one time I accidentally let it go significantly longer than I meant to, I ended up with water quality issues. That could have been the GFO instead of the carbon, though. Or, it could have been one of a thousand other things that goes on in a reef tank. :)

Regardless, carbon is cheap and does some theoretical good with very little theoretical bad (some arguments about removing trace elements you may want do exist). So, I'm not sure why not to use it.
 

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
I run carbon 24/7 and my tank was super clean and crystal clear! Can a tank run without it? Absolutely.

I think CPE is great and is a good plug and play but for larger applications buying Gfo and carbon and running in separate reactors is the way to go. I changed my carbon out weekly
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the comments. Certainly seems to be considered as an advantage but I must investigate chemi pure elite now, that's new to me :)

How often should cpe be replaced?
 

mtsully71

Well-Known Member
Chemi-Pure & Chemi-Pure Elite
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* Multi-purpose chemical filter media removes dissolved organics and other harmful compounds
*
Enjoy sparkling water and maintain a perfect pH in any aquarium
*
Lasts 4 - 6 times longer than average carbon

Your fish will live a healthier life - up to 4 times longer. Works equally well in marine or freshwater aquariums to remove heavy metals, copper, phenol, ammonia, and other nitrogenous waste. Helps keep pH at a consistently safe range and your water sparkling clear. Fantastic for use with African Cichlids and Discus. Chemi-Pure Elite adds ferric oxide to the original Chemi-Pure formula to also remove phosphates and silicates, making it the only complete choice for filtering any kind of aquarium. Each pre-bagged 5 oz Chemi-Pure or 6.5 oz Chemi-Pure Elite treats up to 20 gallons; 10 oz Chemi-Pure or 11.74 oz Chemi-Pure Elite unit treats up to 40 gallons. Each extra large 40 oz Grande or 46.96 Grande Elite nylon bags treat 175-200 gallons. Remains active 4-6 months.
Tips from our Techs

Many of our customers enjoy fewer necessary water changes when they use Chemi-Pure. Its ability to sustain and stabilize high water quality over longer periods makes it quite popular with discus and reef keepers.
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DianaKay

Princess Diana
RS STAFF
Thanks for all the comments. Certainly seems to be considered as an advantage but I must investigate chemi pure elite now, that's new to me :)

How often should cpe be replaced?

I have used CPE (Chemi-Pure Elite) since right after my tank cycled.
Changing it out every 3 months has worked well.
Since the Chemi-Pure Blue came out, I am running 1 bag of it & 1 bag of CPE changing them out at different times as recommended by the mfg.
I think Chemipure GFO works well, my tank stays low in nitrates but I also do my weekly WC's religiously.
 

StevesLEDs

RS Sponsor
I have always run carbon intermittently, let it soak for a couple weeks, then run a month or so without it.

I believe the CPE uses "ferric oxide", which sounds like a fancy term for rust (iron oxide! :) ). This is known to absorb many unwanted trace metals from aquarium water. I'm not sure how popular trace metals are in tap water, or in what concentrations they cause harm to fish.

That said, better safe than sorry. I run some ferric oxide in my aquarium about 4x/year. I don't know if it is required constantly, but I suppose that depends more on your water quality and how often you do water changes.

Hope that helps?
Jeff
 
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dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the CPE comments, it does sound a good media. Will need to try and get hold of some. It's quite a claim that fish live 4 times longer!?
 

StevesLEDs

RS Sponsor
I think that there are so many other variables that are going on in our aquariums, it is an extreme rarity that a fish will survive one regular lifespan. I'm sure if you had terrible quality well water with heavy metals in it (perhaps non-potable water), where a fish would otherwise die 4 times faster than normal, then removing those hazards would allow it to live 4 times longer than would have, yet still netting one original lifespan? So much trickery going on with advertisements nowadays, who knows for certain.

Jeff
 

mtsully71

Well-Known Member
I think that there are so many other variables that are going on in our aquariums, it is an extreme rarity that a fish will survive one regular lifespan. I'm sure if you had terrible quality well water with heavy metals in it (perhaps non-potable water), where a fish would otherwise die 4 times faster than normal, then removing those hazards would allow it to live 4 times longer than would have, yet still netting one original lifespan? So much trickery going on with advertisements nowadays, who knows for certain.

Jeff

+1....... think car salesman :) its all about the WOW factor in catching a customer to sell a product. You know the deal take things for what they are worth, at face value and get opinions of real world users.

Most on here that use CPE will tell you that used in the right application its is a good product, but sadly it is not the fish fountain of youth.
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
I'm quite surprised they are allowed to print such a statement, it does sound good stuff, but THAT good ...........:angelic:
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
......I'm having that debate with Carbon at the moment for my RSM C130. The Red Sea carbon is very convenient for these tanks, just rinse in RO water and leave in the media rack up to two months. ......

I've ran into trouble with the Red Sea carton bag I put in. I pre-soaked it as per the instructions and cleaned it as best I could with RO water until it was clear. Well, so I thought! I noticed yesterday that my mechanical filter (white in colour) was thick black and also my skimmer tube had a jet black film. Clearly dust from the carbon.

So just how are you supposed to clean these tightly packed bags? All I can think of is to run it under the pressure of tap water until clear but this will reduce the effectiveness of the carbon absorbing all that chlorine?

:ponder2:
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
It was kind of interesting yesterday. I had my aquarium professionally cleaned mainly because I'm lazy and it's time to clean my pumps and I didn't feel like doing it.

During that process, the gentleman that owns the maintenance company recommended to me that I not run carbon or only run it for a week or so every two months.

His theory is that carbon not only takes out bad things, but takes out good as well. He was quite confident about it.

I had read that theory before, but hadn't really heard it expressed as a very strong or very frequent opinion by anyone I talked to.

I decided to ignore his advice and run my CPE as normal because it's been working just fine for me. :) But, I thought I'd share that view.
 

dgilbert2

Well-Known Member
I have heard this argument before over the years as it does sound quite plausible that carbon cannot just selectively take out the bad elements.

My tank has looked much better this week since removing the carbon, with the mushrooms recovering, but to be fair I'm sure that was more to do with dust through not cleaning the bag properly! :duh:
 

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
Carbon has always sparked debate on if it should be used or not, how often, and if it should be used passively or in a reactor. Carbon is generally safe. This is something you can determine to use or not and how often and you would probably be okay with it in any sense.

I always run carbon - a bag of carbon can last you a couple of months, so taking it out of your tank for a couple weeks a month doesn't make sense. It is a waste of carbon and your money. Instead you can extend the use in the tank and replace it every two months, in this amount of time the carbon will expire (bacteria will begin to colonize the carbon and essentially clog it up and it will stop working as it should), and essentially you are allowing the tank to run a short amount of time w/o activated carbon in it b/c the bacteria colonize have taken it over.

How Activated Carbon Works
Activated carbon absorbs substances from liquid. The word absorb is important here. When a material adsorbs something, it attaches to it by chemical attraction. The huge surface area of activated carbon gives it countless bonding sites. When certain chemicals pass next to the carbon surface, they attach to the surface and are trapped. Once all of the bonding sites are filled, activated carbon stops working. At that point you must replace it before it becomes a nitrate factory.

What Does Activated Carbon Take Out of the Water
Carbon is used to remove dissolved organic compounds (DOCs) from the water. The effect of DOCs cause the water to take on a yellowish appearance they can consist of complex organic toxins produced by the creatures in the tank.

Dissolved organic compounds( DOCs ) are the result of decomposition of uneaten food, digested food and dead inhabitants among other things. While small quantities of DOCs may be harmless, as a source of nitrogen compounds, at higher levels they can lead to water quality problems. Dissolved organic compounds contribute to the yellowing of water between water changes, reducing light penetration, an important issue when photosynthetic invertebrates and macroalgae are being maintained. Elevated DOC levels can also lead to outbreaks of nuisance algae, and there also appear to be correlations between elevated DOC levels, stress, and certain fish diseases as well.

Carbon is also used to remove fish medications from the water - Among the substances that activated carbon removes at least moderately well are acetone, alcohols (including isopropyl alcohol), antifreeze, benzene, chloramines, chloroform, chlorine, chlorophyll, citric acid, dyes, herbicides, hydrogen peroxide, insecticides, iodine, ketones, dissolved oils, organic acids, pesticides, phenols (including those that create unpleasant odors), radon, solvents and tar emulsions.

What Activated Carbon Does Not Remove
Activated carbon does not remove all potential toxins or unwanted chemicals though, including the ammonia and nor does it substantially affect water hardness. Chemicals that activated carbon has little or no ability to remove include: ammonia, calcium, carbon dioxide, fluoride, lime, magnesium, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates, sodium, and iron. Lead and other heavy metals will only be removed by the use of a very specific type of carbon not normally used by aquarists. Therefore, activated carbon does not remove trace elements that benefit corals.

Pros and Cons
Pros to using carbon - Keeps the tank clean of DOCs and other toxins. Gets rid of the yellowish-green tinge water. In mixed coral tanks carbon helps to reduce allelopathy, it absorbs the toxins released by corals to harm other corals.

Cons to using carbon - Carbon dust has been proven by research to affect some fish lateral lines, essentially clogging the pores and causing fish head and lateral line erosion (HLLE). So if you buy carbon make sure you buy a high quality product. Carbon can leach phosphate, again buy a top quality carbon.

If You Use Carbon
If you use carbon, buy top quality carbon, always rinse it well before use to remove any dust, and don't leave it in your tank for too long, not only will bacteria colonize it and clog it, but it can become a dirt trap and add to nitrates.

References
http://www.hallman.org/filter/gac.html
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/newbie/index.php
http://www.fishchannel.com/saltwate.../reef-aquarium-granular-activated-carbon.aspx
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_7/volume_7_1/carbon.html
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/question209.htmhttp://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-affirmed-as-causative-agent-for-hlle-diseasehttp://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...ted-in-inducing-head-and-lateral-line-erosionhttp://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-foundhttp://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08997659.2011.608608#.VGvKG8kSbBY

BRS video on the subject: here
 
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