Brittle Stars Good or Evil Opportunistic Hunters.

[thelastmucci]

Hey all I have a quick question. It's getting to be that time where I buy my LR and whatnot from Live Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater Aquacultured Live Rock and if you look under what the "package" includes it says 2 brittle stars. Now I have mixed feelings about these things. I know they're extremely good at sand sifting and algae. But I've also seem them get huge in Nikki Pigtails thread. Also I've heard that they can be opportunistic at times. To me that makes them not reeef safe. I was considering getting a red and yellow Necklace starfish or a Orange Fromia Starfish. Does anyone know anything about these two as far as care level and if they're "reefsafe"

One last thing, if you'll humor me. TBS has said that you may get some bad HH on their rock. One member suggested a fresh water dip...but I don't know anything about the process. If someone could either send me a link or explain it in lamens terms I would be very grateful. Thanks everyone.

 

[BEELZEBOB]

lil one are all good.

the bigger ones, not exactly so much.

the itsy bitsy ones are fine though.

 

[BigAl07]

The brittle stars CAN be good or CAN be bad. Sometimes it's a gamble and sometimes it's "interpretation". Take for instance you have a sickly fish/shrimp. The star may take advantage of it's weakened state and if you didn't KNOW it was weakened you'd think "This star is a hunter!". It's ALL part of nature and something I would probably go for until it got HUGE!!!

FW dips is the process of preparing RO/DI water to as CLOSE as possible to your tank water (temp, PH etc) and literally dipping the new rock into it for say 10 minutes or so. This often times will encourage HH's to get out but not always the REALLY bad ones. I've heard of people having mantis & crab problems and the FW dip not doing the trick. I've heard of "Soda Water" bath which agitates them and persuades them to leave their "Lair".

I like the idea of new life diversity coming on the new LR! Go 4 it

 

[AQTCJAK]

IME the greens & the pinks are fine I have had them upto 14" across in reefs never an issue the Blacks however are very oportunist hunters

 

[thelastmucci]

Thanks for all the input guys....I'll have to check to see if it's green or black..if it's green I'll keep them.

Al: How do you perfom this "soda bath" I'm assuming it has to do with seltzer water in some way.

 

[BigAl07]

Yes that's what it is... keep in mind I've never done it but from what I understand it's just taking the rock out and pouring the seltzer water into the suspected "lair" and the critter climbs out. In sounds easy "in theory".

 

[rlcline76]

You know my position. I'm not stating it again. I have black ones, one in the fuge and one in the sump. The one in the sump we have pegged for 2 murders. I removed the other one so that I wouldn't have to wonder if it was going to do anything.
I hear the green ones are the worst. Jack, did you mean green or is there a green and pink variety out there?

Not good or evil...just brittlestars doing what brittlestars can do.

 

[goldenmean]

I have a big brown brittle star from TBS. He has been no problem at all.
Do not do a FW dip of the TBS. You will kill all the good stuff including the bacteria that makes it LR. Plus has been said the FW will not do anything to any gorilla crabs. The club soda trick works but I wouldnt want to do it for all the LR. Put the LR in your tank and watch. Use a wooden skewer and traps to catch gorilla crabs. AIf you get a mantis shrimp and you dont want him then you watch and find which rock he has made his home and you pour the seltzer into his lair and he will fly out. Have a container of SW for him and you can take him to your LFS for some store credit.

You will get gorilla crabs from TBS and probably a mantis too.
It is nothing to to be too concerned about. They are not going to destroy your tank overnight nor do much of anything short term. You will have plenty of time to remove them before they cause any troubles.

Now the TBS Packages come with a Condy anemone and I would suggest that your request that TBS keeps the condy. Mine tried to ride my powerhead with disasterous results for the nem. The Rock flower nems are pretty cool though.

Check out the first couple of pages of my 55g chronicle and you will see what I went through with the early days of TBS!

 

[BigAl07]

I have to Ditto the above post! Don't sweat it till you get it See what comes and then we can devise a plan

 

[goldenmean]

Actually my star is a serpant star - not a brittle.

Here is my effective crab trap. If you look close there is a gorilla in there.

This way works too! Crab kabob. This guy got fed to my mantis. Recycle.

 

[lcstorc]

Yep,
That is the good and bad of the Tampa Bay rock. Lots of variety. I would also tell them to keep the Condy but the rest you are going to have to watch and wait. Just keep watching the tank as you cycle and catch the bad critters that come out. I would probably do a longer cycle and add food every couple of days so you can see the critters come out after the food and handle them appropriately.

 

[thelastmucci]

Thanks for all your advice everyone I really do appreciate it. However about ohhh 6 minutes ago I ordered the package. I did ask richard to leave out the star (had I read this post sooner I would have just said nothing). As far as the Condy if I get one it shouldn't be a problem to just one day bring it to the LFS..unless it tries to kill itself that is.


Also Golden I will check out your thread in the next few days.

 

[BaxReefs]

If your getting the Package, it comes in two shipments, does it not? you can always get the star then if you want it.

I started my first 26 with 30 pounds of TBS, I would not do it on a large system from scratch unless I had time to wait out the HHs, but the HHs are all the fun of TBS. It makes a grat start to a new system, just be patient!

Get it, rinse it in SW, rinse again, rinse it one more time, put in the tank and change the water like crazy for a week or two. You'll be amazed! The real marine life you'll observe is outstanding. Over four years later and I still see new things I attribute to TBS origins.

If you see the brittle in the lower area of the rock here, theres are from Reeftopia and are huge and have never agressivly hunted anything. The do a great job of sweeping the floor IMO. Other types can be pretty aggresive.

As for sea stars, wait to establish your tank before adding one, a fromia is a safer bet, again JMO.

 

[thelastmucci]

Bax,
Thanks for the response..first I want to say your tank looks amazing. Second, unfortunately I live in an apt. so I am forced to keep things pretty simple. So the whole rinse 3 times thing is kinda not an option. I do have one big Rubbermaid tub that I hold RO water in but I can't really gauge it so getting the correct amount of salt in there would be somewhat difficult. I was just planning on getting a 5 gallon bucket and rinsing in there.

As far as the HH go..your right they are half the fun. I've gotten different ideas from various members on the site to help me determine what the best option is for porcelain crabs and mantis'.

As far as the serpent star goes your right if I decide to get one then I'll get it in the second package.

 

[BaxReefs]

A 5 g bucketis fine, that's all I had when I set up the 26.

Parcelin crabs are good, no great! Gorillia crabs are evil little ....

In my 30 pound order, not a package, I had probably 2 doz crabs and shrimp, some good, some bad. But the memories of bad crab hunting late at night will linger with us for ever

 

[BarbMazz]

Anthony, I loce my TBS tank, you know that. My package cuc included a serpent star, but I have a lot of TINY brittle stars that are out at night. They aren't even an inch across. They clean stuff like crazy! My serpent is very cool and I love to feed him. As soon as I put the tongs in he's THERE waiting for me to give him a goody. He slurps it right up!

I still have gorilla crabs and lots of them! Most are very small, still. I trap one every few days.

I also have a mantis for sure, that I see daily hunting about. I know where he's living but he's not caused any problems, YET, so I'm leaving him in place. I think he is a "smasher" (eats crabs and snails rather than a "spearer" that will spear fish) and I have seen him with a whelk, so to me he provided a good service there! I know he's taken some good snails, too. I feed him when I feed the tank if I know where he is.

I think you don't need to worry about the brittle stars just yet; the ones that will hh in will be very small.

I have several porcelain crabs that hh'd in, and stomatella snails... all good! I never would have purchased those... so they were part of the "purchase price" of the rock. Just think of all the things that make it closer to a natural reef!! Bugs, critters, bacteria, other microbes.. that you just won't get going the "other" live rock way. No offense; I'm partial to my TBS. lol

The first thing is to start trapping or spearing the gorillas. I prefer trapping because I'm a softie and don't think I can spear them, but evidently it is GREAT SPORT to do so!

 

[thelastmucci]

Thanks for the tips Barb...gee I hope Richard isn't delaying on getting me an order number b/c I told him to take out the stars..if I knew there were that many lil ones then I would have just said don't worry about it....although I will say that I've been hearing both things that they're evil and they're good..I guess like anything in the hobby it's a matter of opinion in some ways too.

 

[BigAl07]

the "Micro" stars will still be in the package. They are inside the rock usually!!

 

[rlcline76]

Thanks for the tips Barb...gee I hope Richard isn't delaying on getting me an order number b/c I told him to take out the stars..if I knew there were that many lil ones then I would have just said don't worry about it....although I will say that I've been hearing both things that they're evil and they're good..I guess like anything in the hobby it's a matter of opinion in some ways too.

It is like this Mucci: When I see possible opportunistic feeder in the description, it reads like this..."Might have to tear up reef if it doesn't work out." I don't mess with it because there are often other things that will do the same great job without ticking me off. I don't like tearing up the reef.

If we are talking microstars...you'll end up getting them one way or another and they are good to have.

 

[thelastmucci]

Becky your absouletley right. But like we talked about on the phone..if I get one I'll probably just return the lil bugger to the LFS and get some credit for it.