Lionfish Lair
Member
What would possibly be wrong with keeping a younger tang in a smaller tank until it outgrows it? I find it preferable.
Blue tang in a small box.
- Thread starter carlfike
- Start date
First off, tangs need "running room" so you need something toward the larger sizes. If someone started a small tang in something like a 55 gal tank, then maybe.
The problem comes when the fish outgrows the tank, and that can happen rather quickly. Now if your a reefkeeper with multiple tanks, and you put a small tang in a smaller tank to grow it out a bit before you move it to a larger tank that you already have, then I see no issue. I have a big problem with people that get a tang and don't have that larger tank. All too often that planned larger tank never comes. Then all too often the fish dies.
BTW, this sort of thing doesn't just apply to fish. It happens to almost every sort of pet. Just look at the number of dogs and cats turned in because people no longer want them.
Lionfish Lair
Member
I didn't say anything about too small of a tank. I meant appropriate size for it's size, whatever it may be now and for the next year or so.
Tomorrow is never guaranteed in any sense. The tank you have them in today isn't even guaranteed. Peeps could very well put their tang in an appropriate sized tank today..... only to lose their job or take a pay cut tomorrow. So no one should buy a tang because we don't know if they'll have the tank they'll need tomorrow?
My friend set up a account inside of a 5 million dollar home.... an empire built on real estate. Eventually they couldn't pay for tank up keep and then eventually their home. Should we not set these up in the first place because we may not in the future be able to fulfill our promises and best intentions? 6 years ago I would have really been stretching with that example, but today it's a sad and scary reality. We are all running the risk of being stuck with a betta tank and a colorful treasure chest bubbler tomorrow.
I'm sad to say you'd have a big problem with me. I had a volitans in a 6g even before our new home was bought. Had a fuzzy lion in one of those small HOB CPR fuges. And I currently have a Harely tusk in a 28g that has no permanent adult home in site, as of yet.
Tomorrow is never guaranteed in any sense. The tank you have them in today isn't even guaranteed. Peeps could very well put their tang in an appropriate sized tank today..... only to lose their job or take a pay cut tomorrow. So no one should buy a tang because we don't know if they'll have the tank they'll need tomorrow?
My friend set up a account inside of a 5 million dollar home.... an empire built on real estate. Eventually they couldn't pay for tank up keep and then eventually their home. Should we not set these up in the first place because we may not in the future be able to fulfill our promises and best intentions? 6 years ago I would have really been stretching with that example, but today it's a sad and scary reality. We are all running the risk of being stuck with a betta tank and a colorful treasure chest bubbler tomorrow.
I'm sad to say you'd have a big problem with me. I had a volitans in a 6g even before our new home was bought. Had a fuzzy lion in one of those small HOB CPR fuges. And I currently have a Harely tusk in a 28g that has no permanent adult home in site, as of yet.
Situations changing, and future uncertainty is one thing.
Keeping a fish that grows large, in a small tank, with no plan or intention to provide for it's needs is inexcusable. Many times the..."I'll move it to a bigger tank when I need to" is just words so the person can feed their ego with a certain fish, and not hear the negatives.
The funny thing is I think most people in this hobby, hear the Harlequin tusk in a 28 gallon tank (not an attack but the example is just sitting there) and aren't impressed at all. There are plenty of great fish out there and they come in all sizes, why not just buy a fish for the tank size you have, then you know you're doing the "right thing"?
A wise man taught me, If you have a choice between what you think is right, and what you know to be right...then you really have no choice. Let's see, I have a 55gallon, and I can have a dozen barnacle blennies and I know they will have plenty of room, or a small Naso, and he might be OK for awhile...If you have any sense of responsibility is there even a choice worth discussing? I have a 250gallon, I'm not sure, since it's only 5 foot long that a Naso would be happy, guess what...I have some barnacle blennies.
That all said, I'm not the tang police....as Jason said, we might not be doing great keeping any fish in any tank, so IMO everyone needs to listen to their own conscience. When someone doesn't listen to their own conscience, then IMO...shame on them.
Keeping a fish that grows large, in a small tank, with no plan or intention to provide for it's needs is inexcusable. Many times the..."I'll move it to a bigger tank when I need to" is just words so the person can feed their ego with a certain fish, and not hear the negatives.
The funny thing is I think most people in this hobby, hear the Harlequin tusk in a 28 gallon tank (not an attack but the example is just sitting there) and aren't impressed at all. There are plenty of great fish out there and they come in all sizes, why not just buy a fish for the tank size you have, then you know you're doing the "right thing"?
A wise man taught me, If you have a choice between what you think is right, and what you know to be right...then you really have no choice. Let's see, I have a 55gallon, and I can have a dozen barnacle blennies and I know they will have plenty of room, or a small Naso, and he might be OK for awhile...If you have any sense of responsibility is there even a choice worth discussing? I have a 250gallon, I'm not sure, since it's only 5 foot long that a Naso would be happy, guess what...I have some barnacle blennies.
That all said, I'm not the tang police....as Jason said, we might not be doing great keeping any fish in any tank, so IMO everyone needs to listen to their own conscience. When someone doesn't listen to their own conscience, then IMO...shame on them.
Lionfish Lair
Member
But how can you assume it's just words. I try not to doubt people without cause. If they tell me they are going to upgrade and they have the means, I take their word. If they are wrong, I try to assume they will do the right thing. If they don't, well you can't save stupid from themselves. If you had of thought that of me, you would have been wrong. My voli was in the 6g. When it was getting to where he outgrew it, he moved to a 28g. After that he spent a year in a 60g.... onto a 100g and now awaiting a 400g tank. What right thing am I not doing at the present time? The harley's present tank has more room in it, in relation to his size, than his 210g will have when he's an adult. At any rate, big tanks are not always an appropriate setting for a juvie fish. I would not dream of putting him in his future 210g at the present size.
I'm pretty sure my successes in the hobby supports that I'm doing all right by my fish and there's no chance they are getting "shameless" care. But it doesn't have to be your belief, as there are many different paths to success. Yours are just as right for you as mine are for me.
And I absolutely never said anything about keeping a fish in a small tank without any intention to provide him with appropriate care every single step of the way. I believe I supported the exact opposite. I just don't happen to believe a 1" fish needs to be placed in his 300g future permanent home. I think that is an inappropriate place for them to be.
I'm pretty sure my successes in the hobby supports that I'm doing all right by my fish and there's no chance they are getting "shameless" care. But it doesn't have to be your belief, as there are many different paths to success. Yours are just as right for you as mine are for me.
And I absolutely never said anything about keeping a fish in a small tank without any intention to provide him with appropriate care every single step of the way. I believe I supported the exact opposite. I just don't happen to believe a 1" fish needs to be placed in his 300g future permanent home. I think that is an inappropriate place for them to be.
First please read the posts after yours, none of them say, that you said anything, I'm not sure where the defensiveness is coming from. This is a discussion started by someone asking about a tang in a small tank...it's not really about you.
For purposes of discussion I can say that "many times" something is true when I know it to be so, I have made nor stated any "assumptions". If I were to say they are never just words, and everyone who says they're getting a larger tank will, I think I would be naive, this is why I chose the words "many times" so carefully.
As far as something you did just say in your post...I'm having trouble with the math...the Harlequin tusk grows to about 10" 210/10 = 21g per inch how small is it right now for "The harley's present tank has more room in it, in relation to his size, than his 210g will have when he's an adult" I'm not picking on you I'm just thinking that this fish is bigger than 1 inch? Maybe it is just an inch, I'm just curious. Also, I have smaller fish than that in my 250, and you say it like it's a bad thing? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone ever saying you can't give a fish that much room? I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting a 1" fish in a 1000 gallon tank (or larger), as long as everything else is appropriate...I don't follow your thinking on that?
For purposes of discussion I can say that "many times" something is true when I know it to be so, I have made nor stated any "assumptions". If I were to say they are never just words, and everyone who says they're getting a larger tank will, I think I would be naive, this is why I chose the words "many times" so carefully.
As far as something you did just say in your post...I'm having trouble with the math...the Harlequin tusk grows to about 10" 210/10 = 21g per inch how small is it right now for "The harley's present tank has more room in it, in relation to his size, than his 210g will have when he's an adult" I'm not picking on you I'm just thinking that this fish is bigger than 1 inch? Maybe it is just an inch, I'm just curious. Also, I have smaller fish than that in my 250, and you say it like it's a bad thing? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone ever saying you can't give a fish that much room? I see absolutely nothing wrong with putting a 1" fish in a 1000 gallon tank (or larger), as long as everything else is appropriate...I don't follow your thinking on that?
Lionfish Lair
Member
You are misjudging my tone. Watching my expressions across a table puts a totally different spin on it.
In a big tank it can be difficult to keep up the food density a lot of juvies require. If you pour a tsp on BBS in a 28g verses a 210g, there's no way he's going to be able to capture the same numbers. My 210g gallon would also have big tank flow and a smaller tank can be more gentler on a smaller fish. The less then have to work against the flow, the less energy they expend and the more healthy mass they can develop. There is also a 1000 places a little one can disappear in a large tank. They can hide and become difficult to find. That's why I use "grow out" tanks. But if they ar egoing to be growing for awhile, I'm not going to set up their bigger tank prematurely.
I'm trying to use myself as an example, not make it about me. I don't know how else to say something other than share what I am basing my opinion on.
I'm also not talking about species of fish that are small as adults, but juvies.
The Harley is about 1-1/4. I'm told it's one of two of the smallest ever collected in recent years.
In a big tank it can be difficult to keep up the food density a lot of juvies require. If you pour a tsp on BBS in a 28g verses a 210g, there's no way he's going to be able to capture the same numbers. My 210g gallon would also have big tank flow and a smaller tank can be more gentler on a smaller fish. The less then have to work against the flow, the less energy they expend and the more healthy mass they can develop. There is also a 1000 places a little one can disappear in a large tank. They can hide and become difficult to find. That's why I use "grow out" tanks. But if they ar egoing to be growing for awhile, I'm not going to set up their bigger tank prematurely.
I'm trying to use myself as an example, not make it about me. I don't know how else to say something other than share what I am basing my opinion on.
I'm also not talking about species of fish that are small as adults, but juvies.
The Harley is about 1-1/4. I'm told it's one of two of the smallest ever collected in recent years.
He does look tiny
I like the idea. I have a yellow and purple tang, and sometimes I wish I had kept to all smaller fish. The tangs are nice, but for bio load, I could probably have a dozen smaller fish for the 2 tangs.
Lionfish Lair
Member
There is indeed something about any fish that is that small. You can't help but go awwwwwww!
PIMPALA
Well-Known Member
while in theory, this is good, and while it may be easier for YOU... its still not "natural" for the fish. otherwise no baby fish would make it in the real ocean.
Conway Corals
RS Sponsor
You are misjudging my tone. Watching my expressions across a table puts a totally different spin on it.
In a big tank it can be difficult to keep up the food density a lot of juvies require. If you pour a tsp on BBS in a 28g verses a 210g, there's no way he's going to be able to capture the same numbers. My 210g gallon would also have big tank flow and a smaller tank can be more gentler on a smaller fish. The less then have to work against the flow, the less energy they expend and the more healthy mass they can develop. There is also a 1000 places a little one can disappear in a large tank. They can hide and become difficult to find. That's why I use "grow out" tanks. But if they ar egoing to be growing for awhile, I'm not going to set up their bigger tank prematurely.
I'm trying to use myself as an example, not make it about me. I don't know how else to say something other than share what I am basing my opinion on.
I'm also not talking about species of fish that are small as adults, but juvies.
The Harley is about 1-1/4. I'm told it's one of two of the smallest ever collected in recent years.
Awesome! I would love to have I've of those little guys!
Lionfish Lair
Member
Our tanks are often a poor representation of what a fish would experience in the ocean. The density of food in the ocean is incredible. But the truth be told, the majority of offspring don't actually make it in the real ocean.
But what are you saying isn't natural for the fish? I am confused on that one.
I look forward to the little guy growing up and coming into his aussie colors.
I love small fish....
There is nothing wrong with keeping small fish. I prefer them myself, but keep this in mind with large tanks. On small tanks, you generally view them up close, so you see all the details on a small fish. With large tanks you often view them from across the room, so if you have all small fish, the tank can look really empty. Also, you want fish that will come out from a lot. Even tangs can be very timid. I have a yellow tang in my 125 gal reef, and it runs and hides at the slightest thing. It's by far the largest fish in the tank. I've named it "chicken of the sea".
coralmadness
Member
I am just curious who is right and who is wrong? An example. A powder blue on live aquaria says it needs a minimum of 125 gallons. Reefs2go says for the same fish needs only 75 gallons.
Either only one of them are right, or they both are right and some of the people that get mad about this subject are wrong? It's hard to say someone is doing something wrong when one of our
sponsors on here says they are doing it right.
Either only one of them are right, or they both are right and some of the people that get mad about this subject are wrong? It's hard to say someone is doing something wrong when one of our
sponsors on here says they are doing it right.
dmatt88
Has been struck by the ban stick
Now now. Everyone chill this is a sensitive subject. Haha kinda.
To directly address tangs in a small tank remember they've swimmers. They like space. Also keep in mind we all don't have an ocean size tank in the house (Juan and steve excluded) fish only grow to the space that's allowed. Keep good water quality n think how ur gonna feel with a fish that has outgrown his space. Where u going with it?
.....I'm a Myreeftoyours.com addict.
To directly address tangs in a small tank remember they've swimmers. They like space. Also keep in mind we all don't have an ocean size tank in the house (Juan and steve excluded) fish only grow to the space that's allowed. Keep good water quality n think how ur gonna feel with a fish that has outgrown his space. Where u going with it?
.....I'm a Myreeftoyours.com addict.
DesertOrchid
Active Member
Well I suppose depending on the species you could always have a fish fry! *L* Just kidding! *L* :scram:
coralmadness
Member
I am saying that people say tangs shouldnt be in tanks under 100 gallons, but people who do this for a living say they can and that its fine. I looked at four different places online and all four were different. Live aquaria was the only one of the four
that said 125 gallons, the other three said 70, 75, and 90 gallons.
that said 125 gallons, the other three said 70, 75, and 90 gallons.
jpsika08
Well-Known Member
Ok, here is my humble opinion, Tangs are the Devil!
It's true, in small tanks you get to see the fish in very good detail, my volitan is far from shy and he keeps very close to the glass, I get very close and he doesn't even glimpse on moving.
Hope when moving him to his new home it will be the same.
It's true, in small tanks you get to see the fish in very good detail, my volitan is far from shy and he keeps very close to the glass, I get very close and he doesn't even glimpse on moving.
Hope when moving him to his new home it will be the same.