Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc.?

[thechristophers]

I bought a 29-gallon tank and just added sand to it so far. I don't have any fish yet. There's a really nice aquarium store in town and they were all very helpful and enthusiastic. One guy told me that I need to test the ammonia levels of the water, though, then the nitrites and the nitrates. So I bought a kit that has testers for all those three plus for pH.

1) Is my understanding correct that I don't need to test nitrates just yet since there won't be any in the tank at this point? I just added the water tonight.

2) Is my understanding correct that ammonia and nitrIte levels will naturally decrease to 0? That's what the guy said and that's what the directions said in the kit.

3) The guy told me to put some fish food in the tank now, let it rot or whatever, and this will get ammonia levels up. At that point they will be converted to nitrites? Without me doing anything? And then the nitrites will be converted to nitrates without me doing anything?

4) If #3 above is true, then is the only reason I'm test the ammonia and nitrIte every other day (initially, pre-fish) just so that I know when it's safe to put fish in the tank?

5) If the amm/nitra/ite levels are ever wrong, is the only way to reliably correct them by adding more solution to the water that raises/lowers amm/nitra/ites? The kit mentioned something like that.

6) Since it's going to be 3-4 weeks before my amm/nitra/ite (hereon referred to as ANN) levels are safe for fish to be placed in the tank (correct?), at what point should I start running the filter? Right now the water is a tad cloudy with sand dust, which I assume will settle down or else get filtered up, but should I start running the filter now and keep it running as if there WERE fish in the tank? Because when it comes time to put the fish in, I want the water to be clear. So it makes sense to start running the filter now, right?

7) I am going to use live plants in the tank, too. At what point can I add them? Can I do it now, even though I'm still waiting for ANN levels to correct themselves?

8) When I finally do get fish, I will be doing weekly or bi-weekly changes of a percentage of the water. When I do this, I leave the fish in the tank, right? That's how I'm seeing it done on YouTube.

9) When I DO do those water changes and then fill the tank with 25% new water, won't that add ammonia to the water again? And nitrites, just like at the beginning when I first filled the tank up with water?

10) Driftwood floats, apparently. How are people getting their driftwood (real) to stay down? Is it possible without attaching slate to the bottom?

Lots of questions, I know, but I don't want to kill my fish when I do get them. I'm going to get neon tetras and probably 1 boesemani and 2 turquoise rainbows.

 

[forestal]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

Hi and Welcome to Reef Sanctuary!!!

a lot of good questions, nice to see you are trying to do it right from the start. Your fresh saltwater when doing water changes should not have ammonia, but may have some nitrates.

You are correct that you don't need to be testing nitrates right off other than knowing what your baseline is from the fresh water. ammonia is converting into nitrite converted into nitrate, removed/diluted with water change and biologic filtration.

I would run your filter from the start as this is where the helpful bacteria will be growing to help your cycle along. Your ammonia and nitrite should be zero when cycle is complete. Once you start with some algae growth, getting some snails/hermits to help eat detritius and algae will be helpful. once tank is cycled you can add some fish, but expect cycles each time you add and change feeding cycle, although they will be smaller.

 

[thechristophers]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

I would run your filter from the start as this is where the helpful bacteria will be growing to help your cycle along.

Thanks. I'm not sure I understand how a cycle is started, or how running the filter will help it start, but the takeaway, I guess, is that I do need to run the filter now.

So that answers question #6.

Anybody else have answers for the others?

 

[ddelozier]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

Ok, short and simple. How to cycle an aquarium in 200 words or less. Add live/dry rock and sand to the tank. Add premixed water to the tank. If using dry rock or combination, add a dead table/deli shrimp and let it rot for 3-5 weeks. after week 1, amonia should show. After week two Nitrite should show, and amonia should decline. After week 3 the amonia should be gone, nitrite declining and nitrate showing. Week 4, amonia 0, nitrite 0(or close) and nitrate showing only. If at week 4, nitrite still show's give it one more week. when only nitrates show, tank cycled. Water change till trates are under 20 and start acclimating fish. Timing depends on the amount of rock. If using seed live rock, more will speed the process too.

 

[thechristophers]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

Thanks, ddelozier, that's very helpful. But you said that once only trates are shown, I should change the water.

(1) How much of it should I change?
(2) Won't that just add more ammonia to it all over again?
(3) Change water UNTIL trates are under 20? You mean change once a day, or what? How much water? Aren't there some drops I can put in the water that put trates into it, just as there are drops that can increase or decrease the pH and the trites?

Oh, also, what about RO water? If I use RO from the get-go, do I even have to worry about all this testing and stuff? I understand that there is no ammonia in RO water, so that's good, right? Or do I still need ammonia in the tank initially in order to get the cycle going, and then once I have nitrates, change the water 100% and replace it with RO? (But then again, wouldn't removing the nitrate-filled water remove the nitrates as well?)

 

[DianaKay]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

:welcomera Welcome to RS! Looks like some of the others have advised you well....there's plenty of friendly folks here for all the questions you'll have.
I might add that when I started my tank cycle I put in a deli-shrimp (tied in a piece of nylon stocking) to let rot & start my ammonia build. That way you don't have to add fish food everyday.

 

[thechristophers]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

I might add that when I started my tank cycle I put in a deli-shrimp (tied in a piece of nylon stocking) to let rot & start my ammonia build.

When you guys say "deli shrimp," is that a species of shrimp, or are you talking about a raw shrimp from the grocery deli?

 

[DianaKay]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

When you guys say "deli shrimp," is that a species of shrimp, or are you talking about a raw shrimp from the grocery deli?

Just a raw (or cooked that looks raw?)....looked like this

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Takes a few days but it will rot & work to get your cycle started.

 

[forestal]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

for what it's worth, I don't add shrimp, just a little fish food daily. The new water when you do a water change should not have ammonia in it so you are not adding any. If it does then get a new water source. the bacteria that do the processing of waste ammonia->nitrite->nitrate need surface area to live - some in sand, live rock and/or on biologic media in a filter (so if not using live rock the filter should be running during the cycling). Unless you are using already cured (rock well established with bacteria in another tank for 4-6 weeks) live rock, it typically takes 3-6 weeks to see ammonia and nitrites disappear. My rock was fully cured and therefore i didn't see much of a cycle.
any nutrients (waste/food) added to the system will become nitrates which need dilution ie. water changes to bring down. Often 1-4x a month is a pretty good schedule but initially you may need to do daily if your nitrates are high; but your water source should be looked at as often tap water has nitrates/phosphates in it and this is why a lot of folks use reverse osmosis (RO) or RO/DI (deionization) for their fresh water and add the salt to this.

 

[forestal]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

Another note, if you don't already, I suggest at your Local fish store (LFS) to get a book to read up on this - a great starter is A Concientious Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner. It takes you through the initial steps, however you are setting up your tank; FO (fish only) , FOWLR (fish only with live rock), or full reef. It is great for the beginner, but has lots of good info for re-reading again after more experienced.

 

[DianaKay]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

Another note, if you don't already, I suggest at your Local fish store (LFS) to get a book to read up on this - a great starter is A Concientious Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner. It takes you through the initial steps, however you are setting up your tank; FO (fish only) , FOWLR (fish only with live rock), or full reef. It is great for the beginner, but has lots of good info for re-reading again after more experienced.

You might should look for a beginner's book for FRESH WATER set up instead. I get all the help I've needed so far right here, reading threads & asking questions.

 

[forestal]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

My apologies as this is a fresh water tank - dangers of looking at posts from the front page. rock issues don't apply in fresh water and fresh water cycling is much faster than salt.

 

[DaveK]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

Salt water systems are generally what we talk about on Reef Sanctuary, although we welcome all. Many of us have other types of aquarium systems.Fresh water planted tanks work a bit differently from ordinary FW tanks.

I consider FW planted tanks to be an advanced form of aquarium keeping. This is going to mean that almost all local fish stores are going to be completely clueless on how to do this correctly, and at low cost. Before you do anything else get a couple of good books on the subject. Here are two I highly recommend.

Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad - Excellent advice, but few pictures
Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock - Best first book, lots of good pictures

You will likely need to get them online from some place like Amazon. They will cost less, and a lot of local stores do not even carry them.

Read and understand the books before you go any further. You also might consider joining a forum dedicated to planted tanks. Here is one - The Planted Tank - Articles, Forums, Pictures, Links

You'll find that planted tanks need several things to work well, good substrata, good lighting, and good fertilizers. This is usually quite a bit different from what gets sold to people in most LFS. For example, many stores will sell lighting with the wrong bulbs for plants or incorrect fertilizers.

As for your specific questions...

Plants love ammonia, so you should add them right away. Be sure you get true aquatic plants. Many stores sell house plants as aquarium plants. Those almost always die when place under water. Be sure you get plants compatible with the amount of light you are using. Some have massive lighting requirements. At first, you generally want fast growing plants, because they will use up a lot of nitrate and phosphate, and go a long way toward keeping a tank algae free.

Nitrates and phosphates and some other nutrients are critical for proper plant growth. Often these must be supplemented in planted tanks. (Note to fellow reef keepers - I know that sounds like a blasphemy, but it's true for planted tanks(grin)). Depending upon the method used, you may not need to specificly test for them, but it's a good idea to have low range nitrate and phosphate test kits.

It can take take many weeks for the ammonia and nitrite levels to drop to 0. Just give them time.

Water changes can range from about 10% a week to about 50% a week depending upon the fertilization method used. So, it's not possible to tell you how much to change without knowing other factors.

It is not necessary to add an ammonia source when you make water changes.

To solve the driftwood problem use long nylon cable ties to connect a rock to the driftwood. You can also get mopani drift wood that sinks, but it must be cured outside the tank first.

.

 

[PEMfish]

Re: Beginner. Ammonia/nitrite questions, & when do I add plants, start filtering, etc

1) Is my understanding correct that I don't need to test nitrates just yet since there won't be any in the tank at this point? I just added the water tonight.

Correct. Wait until the NH3 ( ammonia ) spikes, then start testing.

2.)Is my understanding correct that ammonia and nitrIte levels will naturally decrease to 0? That's what the guy said and that's what the directions said in the kit.

Correct. They should stay at zero permanently. Even a small amount of ammonia is toxic ( 0.03ppm ). You might see trace amount of NO3 ( Nitrate ) ( 10.0 ppm ), there are a few possible sources for that, but so long as it stays low it wont be a problem. People might cite it as a source for algae, but in a FW tank thats false.

3)The guy told me to put some fish food in the tank now, let it rot or whatever, and this will get ammonia levels up. At that point they will be converted to nitrites? Without me doing anything? And then the nitrites will be converted to nitrates without me doing anything?

Correct

4)If #3 above is true, then is the only reason I'm test the ammonia and nitrIte every other day (initially, pre-fish) just so that I know when it's safe to put fish in the tank?

I would test daily. Also test NO3 once NO2 spikes.

5) If the amm/nitra/ite levels are ever wrong, is the only way to reliably correct them by adding more solution to the water that raises/lowers amm/nitra/ites? The kit mentioned something like that.

Wrong. The manufactures of the kit are just trying to sell you that solution product. The real way to lower nitrogen is to cut off the source. And keep up with water changes. If you mess up and wind up with high levels do a few emergency water changes to dilute the nitrogen and then correct the underlying problem. There is no fairy dust solution that will all your problems in the world disappear- its a scam.

6.) Since it's going to be 3-4 weeks before my amm/nitra/ite (hereon referred to as ANN) levels are safe for fish to be placed in the tank (correct?), at what point should I start running the filter? Right now the water is a tad cloudy with sand dust, which I assume will settle down or else get filtered up, but should I start running the filter now and keep it running as if there WERE fish in the tank? Because when it comes time to put the fish in, I want the water to be clear. So it makes sense to start running the filter now, right?

Turn it on now. Alot of the good bacteria that will do the conversion from NH3 to NO2 to NO3 will colonize in the filter.

7) I am going to use live plants in the tank, too. At what point can I add them? Can I do it now, even though I'm still waiting for ANN levels to correct themselves?

Sure, they don’t give a crap about NH3 ( well, for all intensive purposes lets just except that as fact... ).

8.) When I finally do get fish, I will be doing weekly or bi-weekly changes of a percentage of the water. When I do this, I leave the fish in the tank, right? That's how I'm seeing it done on YouTube.

Yes, for the love of *** yes! The stress of removing them will likely kill them off. Theres absolutely no reason to remove them.

9) When I DO do those water changes and then fill the tank with 25% new water, won't that add ammonia to the water again? And nitrites, just like at the beginning when I first filled the tank up with water?

No. There is no NH3 in tap water. It is possible there might be some NO3, but I've never seen anything over 5ppm, not enough to worry about.

10.) Driftwood floats, apparently. How are people getting their driftwood (real) to stay down? Is it possible without attaching slate to the bottom?

The slate will weight it down. But dont put new drift wood in the tank. It will leach tannins and turn the water yellow. Soak it in a bin of water for a few weeks to a few months to remove the tannins. Soaking it will also water log it, causing it to sink on its own.

Lots of questions, I know, but I don't want to kill my fish when I do get them. I'm going to get neon tetras and probably 1 boesemani and 2 turquoise rainbows.

Turquoise rainbows get to be about 5". Sorry, chose again.