Aquavitro Salinity Salt

[gimmito]

I use Aquavitro Salinity salt for my RSM and mix 30 gal at a time in a brute trash can. I noticed it mixes cloudier than other brands and warms up immediately when it hits the water (magnesium) ?
I'm setting up a 450 display and I'm mixing saltwater in a 300 rubbermaid trough. I initially used a couple of seio m100's to help with the mixing, but added a water blaster pump (on the advice of Frankie) to help increase flow. It's taken a few days to clear up and I was told to use phosguard or something similiar to help with the mixing of the salt (thus avoiding the white residue).
That begs the question of how much to use ?

Here's a pic by the way. You can tell there is still quite a bit of white residue on the sides and bottom of the trough.

 

[Jackalope]

i use this salt as well. yes it does mix up cloudy. its packed with good stuff. my cloudiness ends in a day or2 usually. i mix mine up in a 55 gallon brute container with 2 koralia #4's in the bottom making a swirling effect. works great. i would not use something to remove the cloudiness while mixing as you are just removing what was put in there to make it better than the rest of the salt out on the market. might as well use cheap salt man.

Edit: it will clear up after a while. its the best salt imo

 

[gimmito]

I agree it's one of the better salts out there, although I'm sure you'll get an argument from Tropic Marin, D&D, & ESV users out there. Frankie was kind enough to ask Boomer regarding the question and recommended using phosguard (or something similiar) to help with the side effects of the salt.
Hopefully, he can elaborate ?

 

[Boomer]

It's taken a few days to clear up and I was told to use phosguard or something similiar to help with the mixing of the salt

NO !! it will make it worse, as heat causes more cloudiness/ precip of CaCO3.

phosguard

Was an example of a media like Calcium Chloride that generates heat when they are added to water and called a Exothermic Reaction

This salt is an issue as it uses Anhydrous salts, a) generate more heat which reduces their solubility. b) are more concentrated that other salt mixes as the dry mix has much less water in it.


This salt needs to be added slowly over time, like1/4 - 1/ 2 cup / 5 gals every 15 mins or so. Try to keep the temp of the water lower as the components are more soluble at lower temp and at lower temp they will generate less CaCO3 precip/cloudiness. You DO NOT want any cloudiness, as cloudness means precip of CaCO3 or Mg(OHH)2 and they will NOT go back into solution. The cloudless just settle out or ends up as a precip on the walls or bottom of the container. SeaChem is working on a solution to give better mixing instructions / my comments on many posts on forums and noted issues with this salt dissolving based on most normal salt mixing instructions.

 

[gimmito]

Thanks for clarifying Boomer. Is it safe to say I'll need to replenish whatever was precipitated ? Do you have a recommended temperature setting ?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

I experienced this with my 1st bucket - but not on the next two. I add a little bit over 2 cups to a 5 gals water with a maxi jet 1200 running (I do pour it slowly & have noticed it really heats up) shortly after I add it, I reach in & swirl the maxi jet 1200 for a few seconds & it clears 100%

Work well for me - very happy with it

 

[Frankie]

From reading boomers description of what happened I'm sorry to say Jim that the salt looks like it has been compromised already and what precipitated will not go back into solution.

Honestly, most of it is most likely ca++ and Mg. What other elements have been effected is up to your testing abilities.

If it was mine and this was the salt for a startup system I would start over and add the salt more slowly as Boomer described. From the picture you provided it is obvious you added too much too fast. It is sitting on the ridges of the rubbermaid even.

It's not the "End Of The World" considering all the hard work you put into this build. NBD. Just a learning curve

Frank

 

[gimmito]

I hate to toss all that water and salt. I'll test it and see how far off the parameters are.

 

[Jackalope]

toss this at ya boomer, ive heard of salt settling due to transport and vibration. from hearing about this, i lay my new bucket down on its side and roll it around. honestly my next bucket after this does not do the cloudiness thing... BUT, yes if you take this salt and put it in a cup, put a little bit of ro/di to it, it gets VERY hot. nearly melting the cup. im going to test it with my IR Thermometer right now to see. my tank will handle a little bit of salt due to the volume. so here goes the test...

Edit: did a short video test. uploading to photobucket for transfer to hear. will post when its finished.

 

[Jackalope]

any word on sounding like a Texan and you all are fired! lmao

here


ahh no sound... no worries the bottom number is the max hold it hit 158

 

[Frankie]

I hate to toss all that water and salt. I'll test it and see how far off the parameters are.

Alright Jim. Sorry to bring that to your attention but I would hate for you to have any problems with the start up of this project you have taken on.

I am curious what the directions on the box tell you with this salt. Could you provide that for us Jim?

Also I would like to see a more recent picture of that vat and if the salt went into solution. How much precipitation has settled.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

http://www.aquavitro.com/Products/salinity.html

1. Mix salinity™ with dechlorinated tap or purified water. We recommend the use of a commercial dechlorinator like alpha™ to neutralize any tap water chlorine and/or chloramines. If source water quality is poor we recommend purification with a Seachem Pinnacle™ RO/DI system.
To prepare small quantities, bring 35 grams of salinity™ up to a volume of 1 liter, or add 36.27 grams to 1 liter of water. [This is a little less than ½ cup of salt per US gallon of water. For 15 gallons use 7 cups of salinity™.]
2. Stir well to ensure a good mix. Although the salinity™ solution may be used immediately, we suggest mixing for approximately 24 hours to achieve oxygen/carbon dioxide equilibrium.
3. Measure the salinity. We recommend a salinity of 35‰. This will be a temperature compensated SG (specific gravity) value of 1.026. If you are using uncorrected SG values (H) then the following formula will yield a value for S (salinity) accurate to within 1%:

S = [0.3348 * T] + [1325 * H] - 1330.4525 (calibrated at 15.56 °C (60 °F))

S = [0.2211 * T] + [1325 * H] - 1330.4525 (calibrated at 25 °C (77 °F))

where S is the salinity in parts per thousand; T is temperature in degrees centigrade (range of 13-30 °C); and H is the uncorrected hydrometer reading. If you don¹t mind an error on the order of ±3%, simply use the following table:

If the water temperature is: cal.@ 15.56 °C cal.@ 25 °C
degrees C degrees F then target H= then target H=
13 – 15 55 – 59 1.027 1.029
16 – 19 60 – 66 1.026 1.028
20 – 23 67 – 73 1.025 1.027
24 – 27 74 – 81 1.024 1.026
28 – 30 82 – 86 1.023 1.025

4. Adjust salt level accordingly. If salinity is too low, then add more salinity™. If too high, add more water.
5. Change 20% of aquarium water every two weeks (or as necessary) to maintain optimum water quality.
USAGE NOTE:
NEVER mix salt in an aquarium containing livestock. Transfer livestock to the aquarium AFTER salt is completely mixed and specific gravity has been adjusted. Use Seachem’s Stability® to avoid “new tank syndrome” and to prevent unnecessary livestock losses in a new system.
CAUTION: SALINITY™ IS NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. Contact in dry form may cause skin or eye irritation. In case of eye contact, completely flush eye(s) with cool water and seek medical attention.

 

[jpsika08]

Jim, sorry that this salt is giving you a headache, have you consider changing brand?

 

[Frankie]

Thanks Glenn!

I'll wait on boomers reply since I see him looking the thread over.

 

[Boomer]

Jack

i lay my new bucket down on its side and roll it around. honestly my next bucket after this does not do the cloudiness thing.

That is nothing new we did that 30 years ago The density of the grain and the size of the grain determines its settling as a dry mix. There are 2 factors here. 1). Denser grains will settle to the bottom, 2) Larger grains will rise to the top due to the Brazilian Nut Theory. Some people have been rolling their contains, with the same issue, which means it is still adding to much to fast. When you use Anhydrous salt like this on you needs to add it slowly. I have told some people to try and a DIY a funnel feeder but this using requires a small vibrator. You can mix up a salt in 5 min if you use a drill and long pair stir rod. Must people when they mix up a salt do not have the water moving violently enough.

That temp you got is a major factor causing the cloudiness, for as temp rises more CaCO3 is formed which can not be redissolved and is where people lose their Ca++and Alk to.

Nano

That data sheet does not help anybody But it does tell you one thing. At their claimed .5 % water that is .175 ppt water where most salts are a least 2.25 % and most are more like 3-4 % and some 5-6 % water. As far as their hydrometer math mess 95% of the people in this hobby no longer use floating hydrometers and less that 10 % of 1% use a 15 C hdyrometer. I talked over this mess with Craig Moren, CEO and Pres of SeaChem and he was going to remove it. We have very accurate on-line calculators to do this with.


gimmito

Mid 60's F. When you then slowly heat it up to the temp you want remeasure the salinity as it *may be off.



Some may want to try non's method to see how that works


I add a little bit over 2 cups to a 5 gals water with a maxi jet 1200 running (I do pour it slowly & have noticed it really heats up) shortly after I add it, I reach in & swirl the maxi jet 1200 for a few seconds


If you are having issues you can not seem to fix do as suggested change salts.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Thanks for the feedback Boomer - always enjoy your post !

That data sheet does not help anybody

- this was just in reply to Frankie question...

I am curious what the directions on the box tell you with this salt.

agreed... not that they are of any use

 

[Frankie]

obviously Glenn! LOL thanks though for providing it!

You would think they would at least tell you how to add the salt to the water. Shesh! Jim, you could always call and complain about what happened and see if they are willing to help you out with a new batch.

My thinking is the salt in question that Jim mixed is shot now that it has separated so much and lost so much of it's elements from solution. Any thoughts on that Boomer?

One reason why I like Reefers Best Salt is that it comes in a bag, in a box and this makes mixing the batch easier prior to first usage. That and the parameters are always spot on where I need them. I normally just roll the bag around then toss the salt by hand like salad. Most salts like this from overseas suffers from settling.

There is a guy in Pa. That makes and sells his own salt. It comes in parts and you need to mix it yourself. Reports from zeovit users in the states on that salt have been good but still not available to most hobbyists yet. RBS has been the best I have used so far.

Prior to that good old TMRP was my main salt. never had any problems with it and I have never to this date seen any online reefers using it have any problems. I changed up because I am a zeovit user and do what is suggested for that method. Using there salt for there method was a no brainer

May be worth changing back to a known good salt guys and stop using these new salt brands until they improve on the problems that come with them.

 

[jpsika08]

May be worth changing back to a known good salt guys and stop using these new salt brands until they improve on the problems that come with them.

Totally agree with you Frankie, yesterday I managed to use for the first time a batch of Red Sea Coral Pro, even that it's a new salt from them, at the end is just a buffed up Red Sea Coral salt, the company has already a good experience with it; packaging was good, came in a nice little bucket, opening was easy, no force applied, within the bucket, the salt was in a plastic bag, I poured the complete package at once in the mixing container, it took 30 minutes of mixing and water was clear (not crystal clear but enough to see the bottom of the container), I ran some tests and everything was as advertised, just the CA was a little low but I think my API kit is too old now.

So, as you said, better use the normal salts which have proven to work than using new ones that still need corrections.

I'm really sorry Jim you're going through this as I know how dedicated you are with your project, everything you have done so far has been planned in detail in every way, this is a little bump on the way but nothing that can't be corrected easily.

 

[Jackalope]

Did he call me a Brazillian Nut? bwahaha

hey boomer, i found just mixing my salt in slowly (1 cup per 30gal. every 15-30min.) works quite well. no more cloudiness.

 

[Boomer]

Frank

My thinking is the salt in question that Jim mixed is shot now that it has separated so much and lost so much of it's elements from solution. Any thoughts on that Boomer?

It will be fine to use it will just be low in things like buffer, Ca++and Mg++, as long as it is NOT !!! mixed where you add water to the salt. You NEVER add water to a salt mix you add salt to water.


jpsika

Red Sea Coral Pro, even that it's a new salt from them, at the end is just a buffed up Red Sea Coral salt

Do you live in a cave That salt came out in 2007 However, that salt was redone last year as was their RS. I have the tech data sheets on them sent to me by the RS rep. for review. Basically, they are trying to make RSP as good as DD-H2O which is made by RS with different parameters and the sales of DD where running away from RSP. When all is done, as far as parameter go, the DD is better.

Jack

hey boomer, i found just mixing my salt in slowly (1 cup per 30gal. every 15-30min.) works quite well. no more cloudiness

That should do it, that is slower than I gave.

Brazillian Nut Theory



Note: It is not at salt mix that makes a tank, that is gibberish nonsense, it is the guy in the mirror If you look a the most stunning and famous tanks in the world what salt do must of them use....... IO......., a salt that all seem to whine about for what ever reason I do not know or care about Just pick a salt that you like and stick to it. NO SALT makes a tank turn into the gibberish I see of "WOW I changed salt mixes and I can not believe the results and how much better things are " It is the person NOT understanding what they just did. But granted some salt are a pain to mix up. What many do not know is it is easy for a manufacturing to claim how quickly it dissolves, which is more gibberish. The trick to do this is just adjust the salt mix a tad so it has more table salt in it, increase the hydration rate buy using more hydrated salts, i,.e., little if any anhydrous salts. This causes a shift in the Activity Coefficient, lowering it and making all salts in the mix more soluble. The so called best salt, in most peoples minds, is the one that most closely matches NSW and that salt is the one on the title of this thread Aquavitro Salinity Salt, then Tunze Reef Salt, followed by TMP, IO and RS. If one wants their Ca++, Mg++ bumped up a tad then DD-H2O. It makes NO sense to be buying salts that are high 400's ppm Ca++ and high 1300's Mg++.