Starter tank. Fluval Evo? Please help me get it right :)

[MarineDream]

Hi lovely people

I’ve just joined the site. I’ve kept freshwater fish for about 8 years now but I’ve never kept marines and looking to break into the hobby.

Literally going to need help every step of the way as for some reason even though I’ve read a lot about it, it seems a bit like gibberish to me unlike everything I learnt about the freshwater hobby. Your knowledge will be very gratefully recieved!

Okay so i am not a DIY person so I will be needed a tank that is an All in One and easy for a beginner. I also don’t have much space. Research so far has led me to a Fluval Evo Sea. I like Fluval as a make. My current freshwater setup is a large Roma and I like it.
Anyone have knowledge of this particular tank? Is it good for a beginner? I hear it comes with the filter, light and foams etc. However it will need a heater and a protein skimmer? (Still don’t really understand this part) but can these fit in the compartment where the rest go without having to clutter the tank?

There’s an online deal at the moment to get the tank for £120. Good price? What will I need to get started? I’d like to have a relatively basic set up. Live rock. Sand. Corals (nothing fancy but those that will do well under the lights existing in the tank) and one fish and a hermit crab. Probably also some kind of algae eating snail crew.

I’d like to get cycling soon as I get it (no animals included obviously) I know how to freshwater cycle but how different is it for salt?

How am I doing so far? Realistic?
Sorry for all the questions but it will be a repetitive feature in this thread!

Really am grateful for any help!

 

[DaveK]

To cut to the chase, the Fluval EVO holds only about 13.5 gal (US) of water. It's wishful thinking to try to keep a pair of clowns and a lot of corals like they show in the picture. It's just far too small.
I have posted this before, but it's worth repeating. It's the best advice I can give someone new to the hobby -

DaveK's Standard Lecture #1 – Advice for people new to the hobby

The very first thing you want to do, before you spend any money on equipment or livestock, is get yourself a few good books on state of the art reef systems. Then read and study them, so you have some idea about what your are doing.

Here are two to start with -

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner
The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paleta <---This book has an especially good section on fish suited to someone starting off in the hobby.

A note on the books. You can often find used copies at much lower prices at places like Amazon. In most cases these are going to be as good as new copies, especially when your first learning.

This is information that you can not easily obtain from the net. While it's out there, it's all over the place, and there is a massive volume of information. There is also a lot of bad information out there.

Once you get that done, plan or rethink your system. What do you want to keep? Do you have the necessary equipment? Do you have the knowledge to keep the livestock you want? Do you have the time to dedicate to keeping a system and it's livestock?

Many salt water fish, corals and inverts often have very specific requirements. Some are extremely difficult to keep alive, even if you do everything right. Before you get anything, research it, and be sure it will work out in your system.

Lastly, you will find that most LFS people are clueless when it comes to SW systems. Verify their advice, until they prove otherwise.

End of the lecture. Here are a few other thoughts.

When you make the change from FW to SW systems, or for that matter SW to FW, you are going to find that it's a completely different mindset. While the goals are similar, the way you go about them are very different. Here is one example. In the FW world canister filters are ideal for many kinds of systems and usually an ideal choice for many. In SW canister filters can be used, but are considered way less than desirable, since they can produce a lot of nitrates. That's only a small example.

On small tanks, when it is possible to keep very small SW tanks, this is often a poor choice for someone new to the hobby. It's much harder to keep a small volume of SW stable. I'd recommend a minimum tank size of about 30 gal. Larger is better, but that can get expensive fast.

Planning and taking your time are the key to success. Do not run out and buy anything on impulse. This will save you a lot of grief later. This applies to equipment and livestock. Ask here first if in doubt.

Always buy top quality equipment. This does not mean the most expensive. Top quality equipment will last longer, and you'll only need to buy it once. Far too often people get the lowest price thing they can find and end up replacing it because it doesn't work out for them.

 

[Uncle99]

Certainly agree with DaveK, small water in Marine is much more difficult and you are very, very limited at inhabitants.

30G sounds good and will not be significantly more than a package.

I like the all in one thinking, but that means hanging the skimmer, which is fine.

You need a small RODI, never use tap water for anything, say $100us

I would get a simple but good CBB for light, say $125us

Below is mine, simple, no sump, maybe this gives you some ideas.

Become a master water maker, tester and deployment.
Learn the 8 majority parameters and be able keep them stable.
Have good lighting.

Have fun and welcome.

 

[MarineDream]

Thanks to both of you for your replies - so helpful!

Dave K - thank you for the links. The second book looks especially helpful. I have already started some reading but only very recently which is why I’m taking it slow! I just thought that I could combine that with jumping on a site like this early as I like to learn from people who are actually doing it as much as possible.

I have read the issues with smaller set ups before which I completely understand. My only problem is that I a) have next to no space for anything larger at this time and b) my funds are not extensive. However by the same measure I don’t want to buy anything too cheap as I know quality costs however the set up I mentioned I was looking at is not the cheapest I’ve seen.
Also I have next to no aquatics places near me (I feel like some sections of the Uk are especially bad for this) and those that do are heavily involved in selling tropical fish and set ups and next to no marine ones so my options are somewhat limited.

The reason I was looking at the 13.5 gallon Evo is because (even though it’s on the small side) id read that it was actually designed with beginners in mind and have read several posts from beginners who had started with it saying that as they took things slowly and learnt about all their parameters and didn’t overstock it worked out rather well. The most useful one I read about this was someone giving the review a year on.

This is primarily because (apparently) they have created these compartments in the system to make it easier for a noob - one of which holds the protein skimmer (so no hanging uncle99). The lights that come as standard, although they cannot sustain hard corals seem to be fine on the soft. And obviously some equipment can be upgraded as you go when you can afford it.
However as you say, the image on the box is misleading! But I knew that from having tropical tanks and would never put anything like that in a tank.
As I say I really would only go with extremely low stocking! One small fish, one crab and some snails. I would like to attempt a couple of beginner corals but only a couple and very far down the line!

As for the testing kit - can I ask which in your opinion would be preferable?
I’ve heard good things about Red Sea.

Also I’ve managed to track down a place that provides RO water pre-mixed with salt. Is this an approach you’d recommend? It sounds like a good idea but are there any draw backs. Very early in my knowledge of salinity but I’m trying to get a handle on that now.

I’d also love to know your feelings on live rock vs dry rock and the same with sand?

Thanks so much again

 

[saintsreturn]

You want to be very careful with things labeled as beginner. I would look at the space you have and find the largest glass box you can fit in that space. Maybe a 29g? Dont think to much about the all in one applications. Sure they seem like a great idea (I will have one myself one day), but they take up water volume and limit you on what you can do.

A simple glass box can open up the doors for you, so to speak. HOB filters are not the best, but they work and did for me for years. I pulled out the media trays and started putting bags of carbon as needed in it. A HOB skimmer does a lot to help remove nutrients and aid in over all health of the tank.

A good light and good flow will be a huge part of your success. The AIO's have a return that may or may not simulate flow, but you will need a waver maker regardless. Some of this stuff is available from your local area in used forms. For example, i have a LED coralvue light fixture and nano skimmer just sitting in my garage. If you were local, you could have them for stupid cheap.

All in ones define the space you can use for filtration, but they do not create opportunities for you like the glass boxes will. Anything can hang on the back and add supportive roles. Uncle's picture shows how clean and simplistic not going AIO can be. That should be your goal with this first tank. As mentioned, water volume in the setup you shared will be your largest limiting factor as you move through this process.

 

[Uncle99]

In comparison to Freshwater, Marine generally requires 5 to 10 times the space as the water is a chemical soup and flux stresses out the inhabitants and leads to diease.

All in one is fine, but it is simply a piece of plastic to separate sump from Display so we can hide our equipment.

I really suggest that you carefully read DaveK standard lectures. I did a couple of years ago and this info made a huge difference in reef keeping skills.

Buying Pre-mix:
It does not matter who does the mix provided it's parameters are on point.

Testing:
Will be critical in a 13.5g. Until you want to keep Stoney corals ( and in a 13.5 that may not be plural) you need to measure:

During cycle only:
Ammonia (add raw shrimp and what ammonia spike, then zero out)

Fish only:
Temp 77-80
Salinity 1.023
Nitrate less than 50ppm
Phosphate less than .2ppm

With Softies:
Temp 77-80
Salinity 1.026
Nitrate less than 20ppm
Phosphate less than .1ppm
Iodide 0.03-0.06

With Stoneys:
Temp 77-80
Salinity 1.026
Nitrate between 2-5ppm
Phosphate between 0.03-0.05ppm
Iodide 0.03-0.06
ALK between 8-12ppm (must remain stable)
CA 420-450 ppm
MG 1360ppm
PH 7.8-8.3

Red Sea makes good kits but maybe a bit pricey.

Temp.....digital is better as easier to read.
Salinity.....refractometer.
Nitrate.....Salifert....or Red Sea.
Phosphate....Salifert or Red Sea.
ALK....Hanna all the way! More expensive but this test critical.
CA....Salifert....Red Sea
MG.....Red Sea

Getting pre-mixed water?
Follow rule #1......never put anything in your tank which you have not tested for. As I have said, YOU must be able to test your water, even if you don't make it. Sorry, the test kits are expensive, but are worth every penny.
So if you know your water is perfect and on point to the levels, then fine.

Sand
Is not required, unless you want to keep someone who needs it and 13.5 is to small so your choice.

Rock:
I went with dry because I don't want any hitchhikers. I do not use any crabs, but use snails. Cycle takes longer, but I am not chasing unwanted stuff afterwards.

I would consider putting in the biggest glass box you can fit.
Once you get going, the 13.5 will be the first thing to go.

Good luck, whatever you chose, we are there to help!

 

[MarineDream]

Thank you so much again for all the advice. I definitely want to be able to test everything myself even if I buy pre-mix. I’ve been looking at the Red Sea test kit and think I’m likely to go with that despite the price. Thank you for those in depth parameters uncle99 that really is so helpful.

I’m still not fully set on tanks yet but I’ve been on the look out. I’ve had a look at a couple of 29 gallons actually but they’re just that bit too big unfortunately to be safe on the surface I have. We also don’t have a lot of options here in terms of marine tanks for sale in lfS and I’d like to buy something I’ve seen not online. My trouble really is space. I’m currently in a studio apartment so space is a premium. I’m stuck there following a recovery from depression/abuse and although I don’t have much space having my own little reef (even if it will be tricky because of the parameters of such a small tank) would do me the world of good to focus on I think although I cannot disagree with you all I do know bigger the better is normally the rule!

 

[Uncle99]

Space is the space you have!
Become an expert at making, deploying, and keeping stable, those 8 important parameters and size becomes less relevant.

You could say, bigger water makes us a bit more lazy!

Have fun, if you need us we are here....

Cheers