Upgrading tank from 29g to 55g

[s00z3]

Hi all! I spent part of the morning lurking and reading, and since I have a few questions, I figured I'd go ahead and jump in. So hi. I've done freshwater for a few years now, bred Bettas for a while, and have a few of them at the moment. I'm not new to fish, just a bit newbish when it comes to saltwater. This might get lengthy.

I currently have a small FOWLR setup. It's a 29 gallon with a few pieces of rock and two clownfish. We were originally going to start out a bit bigger with a 75 gallon, but then we (my boyfriend and I) realized how pricey the startup of saltwater is and decided to go a little smaller to start out. We also only had a small apartment, and the 75 gallon tank sort of dwarfed our living room. It had a leak anyway, and I already had the 29 gallon that I had used for one of my Bettas in the past, so it made sense.

Anyway. I have an Aquatop canister filter on it rated for 75 gallons, and the whole thing has been up and running for about 6 months now. My clownies have grown quite a bit, and the whole process has been a lot of fun. We recently moved into a townhouse with a lot more room, so we figured.... why not go bigger? There's a 55 gallon tank with stand in my mom's living room that currently contains a turtle we need to release, and that's where my questions start.

(Also, we're eventually thinking of adding corals, but for the time being, we're going to add some new types of fish to the mix and do corals in the future once we know we can keep the tank going.)

Being that said turtle is the size of a freaking dinner plate (we found her in the driveway when she was a hatchling), she's ridiculously messy and kind of gross. It also seems like the kindest thing we can do, releasing her into the wild. Anyway, the tank has been exposed to turtle funk. I've heard mixed reviews about how exactly to sanitize it. I've read that bleach is the devil, yet I've also read that it's the best way to go about de-funkifying a tank. What would you guys recommend? I normally just use white vinegar to clean a tank and do a super thorough rinsing. Since this tank has had a turtle in it though and turtles are messy creatures, I want to make sure it's sterile or at least clean enough to put fish in.

I purchased about 50 pounds of rock from a guy on Facebook that used it in a brackish tank. He said that while the rock had been cleaned, I would still need to boil it. Again, I've read mixed reviews on that, mainly negative ones. Do I need to cook this rock, or can I just scrub it down really well and add it to the established rock to seed it? It's clean rock that's been dry for about a year now, so I'm pretty sure anything overly bad has died off. I'm in no hurry to start adding fish to the new tank as I know it's going to need to cycle, which is going to take a while. Haste makes waste and all that, especially with saltwater aquariums.

I figured once the turtle has been released and the tank has been sterilized, I would go ahead and keep the clownfish in their 29 gallon, but I would move a few pieces of their rock over to the new tank to seed it (with maybe half the new rock in the 55 gallon to start with?). We're switching from the white live sand we started with to black sand, and I figured we'd go with live sand again since it worked well the first time. I'm reluctant to put the clownies into an uncycled tank, even with their current seeded rock and live sand, even though they are some of the most forgiving fish I've ever encountered, lol.

Am I going in the right direction? Thanks for reading my novel.

 

[DaveK]

I'd avoid the use of a 55 gal tank in SW systems if at all possible. They are only about 12 inches front to back, making them almost impossible to aquascape decently. Go with something like a 70 or 90 gal tank which will not be that much more expensive once you set it all up. Keep in mind that the tank is one of the least expensive items in this hobby.

As for cleaning the existing 55 gal tank, bleach is the way to go. Actually bleach is quite safe to use. Be sure to rinse carefully, and let the tank air dry. If you want to feel extra safe, you can then fill the tank with tap water and use any of the chlorine neutralizing products, like Prime, to take care of any residual bleach.

The best thing to do with your 50 lbs of rock is to soak in a FW for several weeks, and then rinse it off, getting as much dirt out of it as you can. If it's clean at this point, you can use it, if not, repeat the process. If your really worried about the rock, you can soak it in FW with bleach for a few days and then do 3 or 4 more soakings using only FW to get all the bleach out. This is usually much more extreme than you really need.

Don't boil rock, not ever. Depending upon what has been living on it, this can be very dangerous.

Since this is a new tank setup, the best way to cycle it would be to fill it with your rock, SW, and add a single raw shrimp you got from the grocery store. Let it completely decay in the tank. Test your water during this process, and when you see ammonia and nitrite peak and drop back to 0, your tank is ready. Test your nitrates also. Expect them to go up. If they get too high you may want to make a partial water change after the cycle is complete.

 

[s00z3]

That's something I hadn't thought of, the size of the 55 gal tank. You do have a point, though, and if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it right. In the meantime, I can always clean out the 55 gal, fill it up with FW, and use it to soak the rock.

I didn't think about using Prime to remove residual bleach, but it makes sense. That's pretty cool. I'll definitely pick up some regular, non-scented bleach then. From what I read, it's one part bleach to 9 parts water in a spray bottle, spray down the tank thoroughly, scrub it down, then rinse it out like 3 or 4 times? I will definitely let it air dry and remember the Prime trick.

I've read about using a shrimp to cycle a tank but never tried it, but there's a first time for everything.

Thanks for the info!

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

to RS ! Look forward to seeing your tank !

 

[BigAl07]

Welcome to the forum and the addiction LOL!

I agree with DaveK. Even though it's awesome you have a 55g at your disposal it's just not a great/ideal SW tank when you go filling it with rock work. It gets full quickly not because of the volume but because of it's very narrow footprint.

Kudos for releasing the turtle, I've done the EXACT same thing a few years ago. Ours was a snapping turtle and she stayed close to where we released her for a year but she then vanished hopefully to start a new family.

I'll add that I also prefer to use the "Deli Shrimp" way to cycle the tank. It's worked well for me over the years and it's about as easy as can be. That's a WIN-WIN for me.

Good luck on your endeavor.
Allen

 

[s00z3]

Thanks, lol!

The more I've thought about it, the less I want to use the 55 gal for that reason. I do have a 40 gal breeder sitting in the garage that just needs a good scrubbing. I need a new lid for it as all I have is a mesh screen that came with it when I bought it (I think it was someone's terrarium), and I'd have to get some lights for it as well, but that's not a big deal. Two 20 lbs bags of live sand, pick and choose from the rock I bought, and I think it could be pretty cool.

My own concern with releasing the turtle is that she may have trouble foraging for food at first since she's been provided with all of her food for most of her life, but Mother Nature and natural instinct are pretty powerful forces, so I think she'll be okay. My mom lives up a hill from a huge lake full of turtles, so I think she'll have a good chance at a natural life. We've had her for almost two years now, and I'll be a little sad to see her go, but I'd rather she was happy living in the wild than living in captivity.

Perhaps you could answer another question of mine that has come up while researching the various methods of cleaning rock. Is RODI water absolutely necessary for a FOWLR tank? I always use water conditioner (usually Prime), and I don't think our tap water is too terrible. My clownfish haven't seemed to mind it, and I've had their tank running for like 6 months now. Most everything I've read about cleaning rock has said to soak it in RODI water and the evils of city water, and I wasn't sure if I was committing a cardinal sin by using conditioned and salted tap water in my tank.

My boyfriend will be delighted when I tell him we need to go to the store to buy a shrimp. He LOVES seafood (I oddly enough don't eat it, so he'll be a little confused at the same time. LOL), so he'll probably buy a pound instead of just one.

Thanks for the help and well wishes.

-Susan

 

[Uncle99]

I would say yes to RODI. Even if your water is great and you use conditioner, it does not remove small amounts of metals and silicate in the water. These can be absorbed by your rock and while there would be no immediate effect, sustained use leads to the build up of those things which turn to GH algae and cyno outbreaks in the future. While you can use tap water, most do not, then, they spend a ton of money getting out all that stuff they put in. A small 4 stage RODI is $100, certainly the best money I ever spent. Years ago I was given the same advice, I didn't listen, then I spent years battling algaes, diatoms, cyno, thinking this was part of reef keeping. After going to RODI, I found this to be untrue, perfect, on point water and stability of its parameters was the key.

Good luck and welcome to RS.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Here a link that may be of some interest...

A Simple RO/DI hookup anyone can do...

 

[Squatch XXL]

It gets full quickly not because of the volume but because of it's very narrow footprint.

55 and a few other tanks with the "smaller" footprint make great "show" tanks. They are very hard to stack rocks in, and @BigAl07 is correct. I have a 38 I use for a quarantine tank, and it is just a 3' long version of the 55g. Getting rocks in it, and not having them touch the front or rear glass is certainly tricky.

I do have a 40 gal breeder sitting in the garage that just needs a good scrubbing.

I have had many tanks over the years, and the 40b is the perfect sized "small" tank. The only issue I have with mine is that it isn't long enough....other then that, it has a great footprint, great dimensions and is simple to light and filter. I too started out with a 29, and have had many types of tanks over the years....I keep coming back to the 40g breeder just because of how easy it is to setup against a wall, or in a corner somewhere. I see where you said it was a terrarium....Be sure that it is an aquarium, and not a terrarium. Terrariums use thinner glass and 40 gallon is a common size for both aquarium & terrariums.

I would say yes to RODI. Even if your water is great and you use conditioner, it does not remove small amounts of metals and silicate in the water.

I have been using tap water for the last 6 months, but I am VERY careful as to how I use it. I ONLY use RO/DI & Distilled water for top off. I use tap water for changes. My tap is well water, and only has trace amounts of iron. My tank has never looked better, but individual results do vary. I think you can use tap water, but you must be on top of exactly what is in your water and you have to be careful about how you use it. Do I advise everyone do this? Oh no no no. If you are trying to keep a reef tank, certainly use Ro and/or DI water. I gave up caring if mine lived or died, and it it keeps looking better every day. Using RO/DI takes guess work out of mineral content.

 

[s00z3]

As narrow as my 55 gal is, I can see how it would be difficult to stack rocks in. I originally bought it with the idea of making it into a cichlid tank, but for some reason or another, that never happened. I forget why.

The 40b seems like a good upgrade from the 29. I originally set up a Glofish tank for my mom in it, and that lasted her a few years before they died off and she decided to put a plant on the table where the tank was, so it's sitting out in the garage empty at the moment. How do you determine if it's a terrarium or an aquarium, short of measuring the thickness of the glass?

I found an RODI system on Amazon for aquarium purposes for around $60. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DOG63OY/?tag=reefsanc-20) Would this work? The price is decent, and the replacement filters don't seem terribly expensive either.

My 29g has done pretty well for using tap water. I haven't had any crazy algae blooms, and my clownfish seem pretty happy (as hardy as they've proven, I think the water could be pure sludge and they'd be content). That said, I haven't tested my tap water for the icky stuff, so there's no telling what could be in it, and I do live in the city, so no well water for me unfortunately. If I end up getting fish more sensitive than the clownies, I will definitely look into getting a good RODI system (or if we do start a reef tank).

Next question... Thanks for bearing with me. We're moving to a new house, and while my Bettas are a breeze to move, I'm much more concerned with the saltwater tank. How exactly should I transport my live rock? We're only moving about 15 minutes away from where we lived previously, so it won't be a long trip out of the tank, but I'm concerned with the good stuff dying off of my rock. I do have plenty of smaller tanks so I could recure it if needed. I tentatively planned on putting the rock into the bucket I use to mix saltwater with tank water covering it, but if there's a way to do it without sloshing water all over my car, that'd be awesome. I hate moving, lol.

Thanks again,

Susan.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

I'd transport live rock in a plastic tote(s). Put the tote in the back of a pickup. Remove live rock from tank and place in tote. Get a submersible pump and some vinyl tubing. Run the tubing to the tote and drop the pump in the 29g tank (or just use a 5g bucket) to transfer some water to the tote. Cover the live rock or nearly cover it. It'll be fine for an hour. Put some old towels on top of the rock if you're worried about it. The towels will keep any pieces sticking up out of the tote, mostly wet.

I'd set up the 40g breeder and use the 55g for a sump. It's perfect for a nice size skimmer, refugium and return section. You could even section off 10 or 12 inches on one side and have a built in 8g--10g auto top-off reservoir - kinda like the fancy schmancy new sumps from icecap and others. You can get plexiglass or real glass panels cut at most any local hardware store (Ace). Sumps aren't hard to do. People get worried about the height and sizes of the baffles. You really only have one critical height measurement. You need one baffle that is the correct height for the skimmer you plan to use. The rest of them don't really matter a whole lot. The bigger concern, is spacing the baffles far enough apart so that the water moving through them is moving slow enough that it won't carry bubbles with it. Usually 2 inches off the bottom and 2 inches away from the next baffle is a minimum distance. Go 3 or 4 inches if you want to be able to get your hands in between them. If you get glass panels cut, you can use the edge of your diamond coated hole saw to sort of sand or file the sharp glasses edges down. Take your cordless drill and spin it full speed. Run the diamond coating part of your hole saw back and forth along the cut edge of the glass -- sorta like a rotary sanding drum. It will take all the sharp edges off and give it a frosted look on the glass. Makes ya feel a lot more relaxed about putting your hands in the sump during maintenance. You can get cheap glass hole saws at (richontools)


If it were mine, I'd want to turn/filter the tank 5x--7x per hour through my sump, so you need about 200-300GPH at around 5 feet of head pressure and some loss of flow for a few fittings. Mag 3 or Mag 5, or an Eheim 1250 would work for a return pump. If you want a nicer DC return pump, the Reef Octopus Varios-2 would probably work. You'll need other pumps for actual tank circulation. How much circulation you want, depends on the type of corals and fish you are planning to keep.

You can get 700GPH internal overflow boxes for $25. (reefcreators)
(more than twice the flow capacity what you need - but the smallest model of box I can find anywhere)

Run a 1-1/2" bulkhead and drain line out the back of the overflow. Get the bulkhead that's threaded on the front side, and use a screen intake on it - to prevent critters from going through the drain and clogging it. The bulkheads, strainers and pvc parts are cheap at (flexpvc). I say 1-1/2 inch drain line because I know a 1" line is usually rated for about 300--340gph if it's just a gravity drain (not a siphon) You don't want to cut it that close. You always want a safety factor in the drain line size. So if the pump and return line can push 300GPH back into the tank, I'd want a 400--500GPH drain line and overflow. Tougher to clog and toughter to flood your house.

Definitely stop using tap water at this point. I wouldn't get anything less than a 5 or 6 stage RO unit. Why bother with anything less for a $10 or $30 savings? (filter direct RD-102) is a 6-stage unit. Buy the booster pump they sell. It clips right in-line. The whole thing with booster pump will run you about $225--$250. Spend the extra $10 or $15 and get a replacement bag of DI resin. Depending on your water quality, you may need it sooner than you think. Always good to have enough for a recharge on hand. You can buy a $400--$500 RO unit if you want. A lot of people do. I wouldn't. I used the RD-102 unit in the past and ran thousands of gallons through it without issues. I replaced all the carbon and sediment filters every 6--8 months. I replaced my RO membrane every 15--16 months. DI resin is a function of your local water source and I was replacing mine every 8--9 months. All the replacement cartridges and resin is cheap. $25--$35 +/- for a complete kit.

 

[Squatch XXL]

How do you determine if it's a terrarium or an aquarium, short of measuring the thickness of the glass?

Yes, the glass is thicker. I think a 40b aquarium is 3/8" thick....whereas the terrarium is 3/16" (half the thickness. I could be wrong.

I hate moving, lol.

I know the feeling. Every time I moved, it stressed something to death. I think it is only natural. You will have some die off. You may even have a small "mini cycle". When possible I have set up tubs in the house as somewhere to put live stuff before moving to the big tank.
moving does suck.

 

[Jesterrace]

Honestly, I would recommend that you spend time over at www.liveaquaria.com and figure out what kind of fish you really want in your tank and pay attention to the recommended minimum tank size. I would say that the 55 gallon tank would likely be more work than it's worth to get it setup. Just my personal opinion, but if you are going to do a sump that a pre-drilled tank is really the way to go. It removes so much hassle factor from the equation and maximizes flow to the tank, because it was built and designed for that application from the get go. If not then go HOB. As for sanitizing tanks? Bleach is fine provided you completely rinse out, wipe down and let air dry for a minimum of 24 hours afterwards. The tank needs to be 100% bone dry before you do anything else with it. I have used the bleach/tapwater mix and then white distilled vinegar/tapwater mix. That one-two punch will kill just about anything.