1 HYDRA 52HD vs 2 HYDRA 26 HD

Seagull_F

New Member
Hi to all,

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just setting up a new Tank, got a Red Sea Reefer 250 (90 x50 x53) and debating on the lighting. Light of choice is AI Hydra and I reached the point of debating between the lower cost and less crowded set-up with just 1 Hydra 52HD compared to two(2) Hydra 26HDs with double the Power Supplies, double the mounting Arms (will only use mounting Arm not hangin kit). I know, I know I have read all threads and Suppliers suggestions regarding that spacing out 2 Hydra 26 HD gives you better coverage than 1 Hydra 52 HD.

Coverage Loophole
However, analysing carefully the official Data I found inconsistencies. Can someone explain me howcome by having 4 identical led clusters ( identical in a way by having two hydra 26s HD next two each other without the extra spacing which is essentially the 52 HD, results only to 25% spread increase in the length? I could understand that there is an overlap between the middle clusters and their angle of 80 degrees but dropping any spread increase to just 25% sounds more than a marketing trick. Having paid premium in a numerous number of gadgets, computers, smartphones etc. etc., realized as many of you probably, that paying premium for top of the line feature never paid off.....So, despite my confidence in the aforementioned analysis, still have the doubt....would 1 Hydra 52HD be adequate for that Tank size or will it be heavily inferior in lighting support? I know that by having 2 Hydras 26HD would be completely covered but this is what a Red Sea Reefer 425 would be as well (120cm length)(see below). So, I am trying to avoid overpaying for light coverage I don't need ....

Supporting facts, Red Sea suggests:
a) 1 Hydra 26HD for Reefer 170 (60cm x 50 x 53) (below the official 26HD spread)
b) 2 Hydra 26HD for Reefer 425 (120 cm x 57,5 x 55)

Any thought from experienced folks highly appreciated.
 
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nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
:rbwwelc:to RS ! Sounds like a nice tank, sure some can advise on the lights (I run Steve's Leds) Start a tank thread so we can follow along ! Hydra are nice !
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
The limitation of coverage is the big issue when it comes to using any type of LED pendant lights. LEDs tend to point straight down and give you a bright cone of light directly under them. Even if you get enough light on the bottom of the tank, you often have dark areas near the surface.

Typically you can figure an LED pendant will cover a square of about 46 cm (18 inches). it's possible to stretch this to about 61 cm (24 inches) but this often gives you dark areas near the surfaceor dim corners.

In your tank I'd go with two Hydra 26's, This will give you much more balanced light. A single Hydra 52 will put out the same amount of light, but it's all concentrated in one place. The downside is that two fixtures will cost a lot more.

Personally, I think the Red Sea recommendations are made to keep the total price down rather than give you the best possible light. I consider them to be way too low for best results. In other word, I recommend you ignore them and use the AI specs for what you really need, taking into consideration what you plan to keep in the tank.

Just to give you ab idea, on my 125 gal reef (about 185 cm x 46 cm x 46 cm) I use four Hydra 52's and run them about 80% of max. I have mostly soft corals. I consider this amount of light to be enough to give me good coverage with no dim spots and enough to keep SPS and clams if I want to go in that direction.
 

Seagull_F

New Member
Thank you nanoreefing4fun and DaveK for your valuable input......

@nanoreefing4fun: will definitely start a thread with the new tank configuration and pics....will not disappoint you

@DaveK : Wow on your detailed analysis........read some of your posts on ligthing and always to the point with crisp mind.....

Please note that the entire analysis and argument from my side has little to do with the exact decision of getting 2 Hydra 26 vs 1 Hydra 52 now. This is a current dilemma I have but the entire argument from my side is to calibrate my judgement moving fwd on how closely shall I follow the theoretical requirements on anything that might be needed for the Tank or shall I question and find optimal solutions.

At this phase, allow me to question everything I read especially now that I am at the beginning of this Lighting journey and is probably the only time I can think outside the box...later will be too late...I will have either the actual experience (mistakes and successes) or very strong opinion on what I want to achieve, hence the Budget will be secondary.

Step-by-step Justification
So, lets agree that the Hydra 52 is basically 2 Hydra 26s glued next to each other (with less space between them, hence some more overlap on the light angle between Led cluster 2 and Led cluster 3 (4 in total). If you can picture it, definitely understand what I mean.

What is the advantage of having 2 Hydra 26s HD spaced out? The advantage is that by spacing them out, we manage to cover effectively the entire 90cm of space) because by spacing them out, we avoid overlapping angles from the left fixture's right angle with the right fixture's left angle, and moving the coverage towards the corners. I think we are good so far.

What are we loosing with Hydra 52s compared to the aforementioned 2 Hydra 26 arrangement? we obviously loose based on AI's data 15cm from the corners (7.5 cm from left and 7.5 cm from right). Do we have any gains though? Yes we do, which is the extra par in the centre where the overlap occurs (not sure if this is scientifically the right metric or the 'par density' instead).

Now, in a real Life Mixed Reefing, will anybody position corals in the corners next to the side glass walls? Probably not unless the rest of the Tank is overcrowded, correct? Please correct me at any point that my sequence of thought is superficial or detached from realistic Operation. So, it is more a matter of Balanced aesthetics (which is definitely important, don't get me wrong) but not a coral growing need.

Would the extra Par or par Density form the Hydra 52 cluster overlapping be of any Use in the middle, probably yes upon positioning more demanding Corals in that area, right?

Vertical Coverage Loophole
Also another point that has not been mentioned, I think, elsewhere I have searched.
Howcome in the Hydra 52s, which is as described above as 2 Hydra 26s next to each other (4 identical Led clusters in a serial positioning), increases the Vertical coverage compared to Hydra 26s according to official specs. This does not make sense, since the LED clusters are in sequential order...so we shall expect more coverage towards the horizontal line (4 clusters instead of 2) and Absolutely no increase on the vertical side......


Configuraion and Upgradability
So, my question is then the following (assuming that some of my questions above have a point), would as an initial configuration be more wise to get 1 Hydra 52 in order to check how sufficient it would be for the short-to midterm stocking process and down the line to upgrade with another Hydra 52 (if needed based on coral stocking) or the alternative scenario of getting two Hydra 26s from the beginning is the way to go for this specific tank dimensions satisfying any need before hand for any potential future upgrade?

I have seen the same tank with 1 Radion xr30 g4 alone, 1 Hydra 52 HD hanged at 12' above water alone, , 2 Hydra 52s and even four Hydra 52s (check AI's website real testimonials) in vertical positioning hence not sure where the overkill start or ends.....

Obviously similar dilemma's encountered for the skimmer, pumps etc, but there the decision to go with the higher spec end is easier.

Appreciate your feedback, and hope you understand the underlying reasons....optimization based on real life use vs we want the best possible equipment no matter what. In some cases, optimization might mean discounts in quality, in some other means just a smart workaround......
 
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DaveK

Well-Known Member
Your reading way too much into all this. A lot of this depends on how you set up the tank and what your plan to keep in the tank. Evey tank is different, so it usually needs to be lighted differently.

Since the Hydras are adjustable to very precise levels, your more worried about coverage. Two fixtures will give you much better coverage, especially near the surface. If that still isn't enough light or enough coverage, you could add more fixtures.

You can also spend several hundred and get a per meter and measure everything, but that $350 plus price stops most people, even myself.

At some point, you just get the lights, put them on your tank, and use them, and then you'll be the expert on how to light your tank.
 

Seagull_F

New Member
@DaveK : thanks again for your help and advice.....reading carefully your post,replies and some additional research which justifies your claim for 'straight down' nature of Led lights in contrast to the coverage claims of Vendors.......I concluded as well that I shall go with 2 fixtures....Hurray,,,,

Another problem now was raised, which is the fact that by further increasing the lighting Budget, the two fixtures of Hydra 26hd, with the mounting arms of my choice, are just 15% cheaper than the package of 2 radion xr15 G4 pro with RMS arms.
My LFS still believes that because the Distributor of AI Hydras in this part of the world has better and effortless customer service....I shall stick with the Hydras even if the price difference is now small for such a purchase.....however this argument is valid by counting on worst case scenario......which wouldn't be relevant if the competitive product (e.g radion xr15 G4) was clearly of better quality or had higher performance that would have impact on the reef...

@DaveK, knowing that these lights are very similar in many aspects anyways, would you have any suggestion for one or the other, beyond this price difference? Is it just a matter of GUI and aesthetics personal preference....or are there differences in built reliability and color spectrum output, that only a very experienced and knowledgeable domain expert can identify...not myself at this point.....

Complaints /issues and raving reviews are all over the internet for both....so only experienced reef lighting experts can identify materiality vs hype......
 
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DaveK

Well-Known Member
Here is the thing AI and and EcoTech are different divisions of the same company. They merged a few years back. Both lighting system are good with AI being a little more of a budget system. I consider both products to be excellent. Being able to do everything through the net via your smart phone or computer is cool, but it's hardly critical. However, you can program a really cool light show if you want to. For myself, I just want to keep it simple a ramp up, lights on about 80% max and a ramp down.

One of the things about this hobby is that it's very easy to keep upping the amount your willing to spend by 15% until you have the most expensive system out there. While I always recommend getting top quality equipment, you can reach a point where the price is not justified.

In this day and age you need to look at the complaints and determine if they are justified. Sometimes they are. Other times the complainer tries to use the product incorrectly or got something way too small. There have also been cased of fake reviews to discredit a perfectly good product. No matter how good a product you have there is always going to be someone that doesn't like it, some times for the most absurd reasons.
 
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