to vacunm or not to vacumn that is the question

cracker

Well-Known Member
Ok folks I searched the polls forum and didn't find this. Has it it's been done already ?
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Most likely it's been talked about, but sometimes such information is burried in another thread under a different topic.

My choice would depend upon the sand bed in use.

For a deep sand bed, I would only vacuum into the top 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. You do not want to disturb anything much deeper.

For a shallow sand bed up to about 2 inches deep, you can go all the way down, but you don't want to disturb any anaerobic areas. You can see where there areas are by looking up through the bottom of the tank. Anaerobic areas look black or gray. You usually find most of the dirt collects in the top inch or so.
 

cracker

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dave, I'm setting up a new tank in the some what near future and thinking about what type of sand bed I want this time. I thinking of a shallow sb this round. I could vacuum a section every so often maybe. I can't decide what I want to do this time !:confused:
So who is vacuuming their sand beds? How do you go about it?
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I do mine once or twice a year. My sandbed is about 1 1/2 inches. I just want to get the worst of the dirt out. I use a Diatom Filter with a normal gravel vacuum on the intake side. Optionally, I have the sponge insert for the Diatom filter, which doesn't filter as fine, but also doesn't clog as quickly as the usual Diatom powder.

Not everyone needs to get Diatom Filter, which is expensive for something you use once or twice a year. You can use a normal gravel vacuum and do the mucking out when you do a water change.
 

cracker

Well-Known Member
I have a vortex ! gotta twick the motor to get it run though and it leaks . I haven't broke it out in years.
Back to the topic. Dave if You use a shallow SB I feel better about vacuuming. My efforts at vearied depth always ended up with a dirt trap.
 

Basile

Well-Known Member
Talking to Albert Thiel , one day and he said to me the most surprising thing about people's tank was the dead sand they seem to have.

Vacuuming the sand, you have to tell yourself in the ocean, in a marsh(where all debris are collected from a lake or river) is it lifeless or full of not only detritus in decomposition, but bacteria and critters of all shape and form.

Plus when destroying a sand bed with constant vacuuming produces spikes in your water parameters; WHY? because you destroy the very organisms that breaks down the detritus and you take away not just the detritus, but all the eggs and critters living in that sand.

A sand bed is not immaculate and shouldn't be; you don't live in it and you shouldn't try to smell what is in essence filtering system, a marsh, a processing plant for your tank.

Continue to do it if it makes you feel better or if you really believe it serves a purpose nut in the end its a step that is unnecessary and at the detriment of your tank filtering system.

That has been my personal experience and a personal talk with one very educated Albert Thiel author of several marine books.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I got to give Albert Theil credit for publishing a lot of reef books way back when. By the standards of the time, they provided a lot of good information.

That being said, by today's standards, there is a lot of obsolete information in them. If anyone it interested in them, you can get the books used on Amazon for next to nothing. There is still some good information in them.

I disagree with with quite a bit of the previous post.

First off, your tank is not a marsh. It's a carefully constructed artificial environment. It also is going to have a massive amount of livestock for a given area. Unless you want to devote space to a massive refugium in relation to the display tank, it is very difficult to get a sandbed to do everything a salt march does.

This means the sandbed is going to accumulate a lot of unwanted material and you usually need to clean it from time to time. My own tank it about due for this, maybe I'll get to it in a few months (grin).

I have never had a problem with spiking any of the usual water parameters. When I did run a controller or ORP meter, I would see an increase in ORP. This was because I removed a lot of dirt and other bad stuff as part of the cleaning. I'm not trying to get all the dirt, just the worst of it. Even with my fairly shallow sandbed, I'm only going into the top layer about 3/4".

I tend to think that people that do see a spike in water parameters are going it wrong and being much too aggressive with their cleaning.

My experience with vacuuming the sandbed is quite a bit different, and I would recommend doing it from time to time. Yes, I know this isn't what you feel Albert Theil told you.
 

Paul B

Well-Known Member
Plus when destroying a sand bed with constant vacuuming produces spikes in your water parameters; WHY? because you destroy the very organisms that breaks down the detritus and you take away not just the detritus, but all the eggs and critters living in that sand.

I have been saying that for decades. I even add mud from muddy bays in New York. I do stir my gravel and suck out debris once a year but that is only because I run a reverse Undergravel filter and it needs some maintenance so it doesn't clog. But I don't want to over do it.
As for Albert Thiel, he is a friend of mine and is very sick with cancer.
 

mr_tap_water

Well-Known Member
I've always believed to vacuum really depends on how deep your Sand bed is,
as the beneficial bacteria don't survive in the top liar of the sand I myself had under gravel filters any years ago and they used to recommend that you had at least one the half inches of sand then another one and a half inches of crushed coral/Gravel for the bacteria to survive and that was the minimum amount. Plus the idea with reverse flow on the gravel was just to push the dirt up into the top liar of the sand Instead of being trapped in the filter plate and then with siphoning would be able to get rid of the waste. Simple but Affective IMO.

And this is why deep beds can be cleaned on the top liar but recommended not to disturb certain depth down. Where the good bacteria is,But could be debatable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

oneofmany

New Member
I don't necessarily vacuum my SSB, but I will use a small powerhead and stir the entire thing up once every month or so. It's amazing what can accumulate UNDER your rocks sometimes. A filter sock is used for a few hours to polish the water and once things clear up it's removed. Most of the micro fauna remain untouched and a whole lot of nastiness is removed. After almost 9 years so far so good.

Btw, I don't use any reactors, no refugium, no ATS, no carbon dosing etc. Just an efficient skimmer, regular water changes and a little elbow grease seems to get the job done. Quite well actually...
 
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Basile

Well-Known Member
I have been saying that for decades. I even add mud from muddy bays in New York. I do stir my gravel and suck out debris once a year but that is only because I run a reverse Undergravel filter and it needs some maintenance so it doesn't clog. But I don't want to over do it.
As for Albert Thiel, he is a friend of mine and is very sick with cancer.


Please if you see him tell him that Chris from OVAS send his regards. He may not remember me but we had a great time, and he's the one that convinced me i was doing the right thing , lecturing at our group, The next morning we took him for breakfast and we continued the discussion . We connect on face book but i haven't see him for a while because of his illness. Such a tragedy a gentlemen.
 

Paul B

Well-Known Member
I won't see him as we live a thousand miles apart. I hope to call him but I heard he is very ill
 
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