Torch and Xenia issues--too clean tank?

Susanedw

Well-Known Member
Not sure if I should put this here or under corals. I'm still new, and new tank, trying here.

I have an xenia shrinking and shriveling, and a torch not extending for several days now, almost a week on the xenia. The Xenia is where it gets flow but not enough to hide or stop the pulsing. It use to pulse nicely. This is a pic of it happy20170103_151617_resized.jpg I've had both these for nearly a month and they've always been quite happy. Especially the torch. It would be stretched triple its current size and sweeper clear to the top of rock. It did have an accident over 2 weeks ago when a few tentacles got sucked into my vacuum tube and pulled off, but it didn't seem to affect it. It opened right back up and extended as normal.

The green star polyp is fine, and the clove as well seems to be all right. 4 fish (2 clowns, 2 chromis) and some snails and hermits. I'm suspecting my tank is too clean.

Tank is about 5 weeks old. Lots of algae so there much be some nutrients! Last time I did the phos. test, it was 0. Here's what I've been running in the media baskets
2 bags carbon since 1st week. . Directions say to change at 2 months.
I bag purigen about 3 weeks
1 bag chemipure about 3 weeks
1 bag gfo about 2 weeks.
Guessing on how long I've had some of the media in. For right now, I've removed everything except the carbon and put them in some RO water so I can reinsert them if told so.

For the first time this week, my water tests showed no nitrates. Usually had nitrates of 5-10. All week, before the water change, it was going down on it's own.

Tank is AIO RS 66 gal (You can ck my build via my sig.) Water change on Tuesday and numbers
NH4 0 , NO2 0, NO3 0,
Cal 350, Mag 1200, PH 8.2 but that was taken an hour and half after lights on
Alk 6 (might be between 5-6)

Using Instant ocean salt, water change 10% each week. Lights on 12 hrs. Just cut to 10 and RO water

A bit concerned on the alk. Mixed 1 t of baking soda in a small jar of RO water (13oz). Dosing a couple ounces each day. Not sure if I should add more at once. Also ordered kent 2 part dosing.

gbta just moved from under rock to sand bed next to rock. Has also been closed up. Was open after lights went. It's taking a long time to adjust (3 weeks so far) but at least it is now in open. Feather duster and zoas looking good.

So questions:
Is the tank too clean?
How much baking soda can I add at one time? I think it needs to be brought up faster
Is starting dosing the right way to go

Here's some pics. For more updated tank pics just posted, check out my build thread. I also have a post for algae issues in this section of the forum with pics.
20170120_183158_resized.jpg 20170120_183207_resized.jpg
 

spiraling

Well-Known Member
Coral alleopathy, especially with the damaged coral might be at play here. Carbon, chemipure, and purigen should be helping though . Your tank is not too clean. Your algae shows that. :doh:You have a new tank with a lot of different chemical and biological things going on that really aren't understood (as far as I know)

My RTBA moved about 3 inches after I put it into my tank and has fully expanded almost every day for two years. Maybe I was lucky, maybe your tank has something not quite right. My tank was over a year old when I added it. Stability is better than trying to get things "right". I don't want to be 'that girl' but you have a lot of livestock , and sensitive livestock like the nem, for such a young tank. Most people suggest a much more mature tank for this. I think husbandry (which yours is excellent!) is part of this. But I am also convinced that there are things going on in the tank and time is needed to stabilize what is going on. Chemical, biological, mechanical. I don't know. I could be wrong, but I read forums a lot and young tanks have problems no matter how dedicated the owner, and time seems to be the remedy.

My suggestion (right or wrong) is stop adding, dosing, changing things for a long while (except water changes) Your tank needs to reach an equilibrium of some sort and it will be easier to manage if you get it and keep it stable.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Your tank is still maturing. You also have an issue with cyano and other nuisance algaes. For the time being I would not use any additives. Just make your water changes.

The cyano is over growing your xenia. This is why it's retracting. Best thing to do here is use a soft toothbrush and carefully clean the algae off the coral. Be careful not to damage the coral tissue.

Also remove as much of the problem algae as you can. All the items that apply to problem algae control also apply here. There is a big chance that your feeding way too much.

That 0 reading for nitrate is a bit suspicious. Usually a tank will have some low level amount. This tells me that the nuisance algaes in the tank are using up the nitrates and growing.
 

Susanedw

Well-Known Member
@spiraling thanks. so far, I haven't done any dosing except trying some baking soda last two day (very diluted). I do feed fuel and reef roids 2 x's a week. I am concerned the alk is so low and just keeps dropping. I've removed all but the carbon and 1 sm bag of gfo and will test and watch nitrites and nothing new has been added or changed for 2 weeks--added some snails and hermits. Need to add more if I can get some this weekend. Will also try to clean some rocks and do another scraping of the back wall. I did a huge scraping before the last water change.

@DaveK there are a couple of bits of algae on the xenia frag, but the frag sits above the algae on the rock so none of it on the rock is on the frag. I saw 3 small pieces which I'll try to pluck off. Maybe I'll move it to the sandbed , though it was very happy there. Yes, I was surprised to find nitrates at 0, and going down even before the water change. I'm going to skip it this weekend and maybe use a net to clean debrie on bottom. And as i said above, will try to get rid of some more algae.

I suspect low alk and no nitrates my biggest issues at present, aside from algae issues. I'll cut lights down to 8 hrs, as long as it won't affect my gbta
 

mr_tap_water

Well-Known Member
Hi there In my opinion your KH/Mag/Cal are very low and should be aiming around
Kh of 7-8 or even higher and Cal of 420-440
and Mag between 1300-1400


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Stop dosing and start water changes. Larger water changes. A good quality salt mixed with RO/DI water will do more good for a young tank than dosing anything.
Your tank is way too young to support everything you have in it and the algae is "eating" the excess nutrients causing your tests to read low.
Do some 30-40% water changes sucking out as much algae as possible each time and that will help more than anything else.
Don't just randomly add baking soda. If you want to dose work on your alk you need to understand the relationship between calc, alk, and ph in your aquarium. Many great articles can be found in the reef chemistry forum. Here is one of my favorites for starters.
http://web.archive.org/web/20021127040526/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Peace
 

Susanedw

Well-Known Member
Update:
I dosed the kent 2 part for 40 gal. Tank prob. has 50 gal after rock and sand, including sump (46 tank, 20 g sump). Numbers came up
Cal 380 (from 350), Mag 1350-1400 (from 1200), alk 7 (from 6)
Alk still lower. Can I dose just part 2 tomorrow. I don't want Mag higher. Was thinking another 5 mil (dosage for a 20 gal tank so just under half my tank dosage?) Will test again tomorrow

Torch, moved to sand bed looked a bit better this evening. Tentacles extended partly and waving around
Xenia, moved down about 6 inches from sand bed. No real change. Moved it to lower light, lower flow . Where it had been had been at top was high light, med flow (enough that it pulsed not waved as though shoved around) but now the flow is slightly different and it was too wind swept. Also going to, (if it survives), glue to some rubble and place either in sand bed or on rock so I can keep it contained. (it's on a frag)

Also attacked algae with bottle brush on rocks and scraper on back wall and turkey baster blowing all rocks. Will keep at that everyday to stop algae from devouring nutrients. Still have the lime green algae. It doesn't blow or scrape off but got rid of some dino's and hair. Lights cut to 10 hrs.

Skipping wc until next sun--will make decision based on numbers. Hopefully a move in the right direction.
 

spiraling

Well-Known Member
The lime green algae might be the start of coraline. Sometimes it starts green then turns purple and red.

Why are you skipping your water change? If your salt has lower numbers that you want then switch salts. Have you measured the elements in your salt when you first mix it up?
 

mr_tap_water

Well-Known Member
Hi there
Just based on my own experience I found lime Green algae can sometimes be caused by too much red or green in your light spectrum.

As for your stats I know we all like to keep them to what suits us but Bear in mind The magnesium side things having it set right help stabilise the other two also as you push it up your Kh Will intern push down your calcium and vice a versa so don't Adjust your stats too quickly.
And I hope it works out for you.[emoji846]


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Susanedw

Well-Known Member
@Spikewire @mr_tap_water I'm skipping as it's possible my tank is too clean and that might be part of the coral issue, esp. the xenia. My nitrates went down to 0 2 days before my last water change which was 2 days late. It should have gone up, not down.

General consensus was I had too much media (purigen, carbon and boyds and gfo) and that along with my algae was stripping the water.

I pulled everything except the carbon to see if that would help and scrubbed out some algae. Amm, nitrite an nitrates are 0. Alk was going down to 5-6. Want to get it up to 8 and then see how everything does.

I did test the salt at a salinity of 1.025 and got cal 350, mag 1200, alk 7 I believe. Someone suggested I test it at 1.026. If the issues continue I'll ck into new salts when what I have is gone but Instant Ocean is suppose to be good.

Yeah, the lime green should be the start of corraline.. I have the t5 lights that came with the tank systm. 3 white, 2 blues 1 purple.
 

Susanedw

Well-Known Member
thanks @Florida Sunshine I'm working on the algae. Hoping I can pick up some more cuc tomorrow . Need to find a way to get some reddish algae off two frags and see what will eat it. as it's is even growing on the cloves.
 

mr_tap_water

Well-Known Member
Hi there
You're right in what you're saying slightly dirty water for LPSs & softies between 5-10 No3 is a healthy Mark.

As for your Algae issues I see you don't have a PHOS Reading and going by your pictures I would imagine is very high and would suggest using some Phos media to help reduce your algae problem.

And testing your salinity at 1.026 from
1.025 I believe you only see a very slight increase. Also bear in mind temperature also plays a part with salinity.


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Susanedw

Well-Known Member
@Florida Sunshine my phos is 0 and has been 0, even when I added the gfo to be sure it stayed there I was running gfo and boyds which I just removed for a while. Temp is between 77.5-80. It usually is steady around 79 but can drop at night, esp. if I forget to shut the cooling fans off early enough. My nitrate had been steady at 5-10 and dropped over the course of 3 days to zero, right before my last wc.
 

mr_tap_water

Well-Known Member
In my opinion somethings not right with that amount of algae in your system and surprised to see those readings so low, and something must be feeding it.


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1st suggestion. Buy a refractometer. It is your best small investment. Then you use that to test your specific gravity (temperature adjusted) instead of salinity. It is much more accurate and will save you a lot of hurt in the long term.
Now for a question. When you scrubbed off the algae, did you remove it from the tank? If you didn't you just wasted your time. The algae is eating the excess nutrients in your tank and as long as the algae is in the system the excess nutrients are there. Remove the algae and you are removing the excess nutrients.
Definitely check your phosphates. Phosphates are also excess nutrients and could easily explain all of the algae.
Last but most importantly. "Dilution is the solution for pollution. Few and far far between are the cases where a water change is a bad idea. Skipping one would almost definitely be a mistake.
The only exception I can come up with is if you are using bad water for the water change. Have you tested the water you are putting in the tank? I have seen cases where that is what is causing an algae breakout.
Your problem right now is not a "too clean" tank. If it was, you wouldn't have any algae.

Peace
 

Susanedw

Well-Known Member
@mr_tap_water I agree. I figured it was the tank uglies as everything was doing fine until this last week. I do feed 4 fish 1-2 x's day and attempt to feed on occassion if it is out, a gbta once a week. I was feeding fuel and reef roids 1x or 2 x a week. I've stopped for right now.

@Florida Sunshine I have and use a refratometer but not sure how to do a temp adjustment. Tested it today and it is between 1.024 and .025 (hard to tell sometimes) with temp at 79.

I scooped some of the algae with a net and let the skimmer clear it out, even though some of it has settled, a lot of it is now gone. PHos. are at zero and were before I put in the gfo and the mesh bag of boyds chemi pure. I added the purigen and chemi pure back in but not the gfo.

I changed the water, 10% last Tue. Will get a batch made today to do another one tomorrow.. I'm using a rodi for water and instant ocean reef salt.
 

Susanedw

Well-Known Member
tank numbers up a bit after a water change yesterday and adding some reef builder (added before wc)

Salinity 1.025
cal 400
mag 1200 (from 1400)
alk one rs test says 8, the other says 10.4
phos .25 so put back in some fresh gfo
am/rites/rates 0

Tank a bit cloudy so put back the purigen and chemipure, replaced one bag of carbon earlier in week. Trying to feed an anemone who finally came out and is looking a tad starved so that might be part of the cause as well as the blenny's and goby to be sure they are eating as they are new..

torch is looking better, a bit less algae. Rinsed both foam blocks as I've been turkey basting the rocks to filter as much out as I can. Did so again today.

xenia not dead but not back where it was. It's getting a bit more flow so need to move it to a better spot but wanted to just let it be for a few days.
 

spiraling

Well-Known Member
@Florida Sunshine my phos is 0 and has been 0, even when I added the gfo to be sure it stayed there I was running gfo and boyds which I just removed for a while. Temp is between 77.5-80. It usually is steady around 79 but can drop at night, esp. if I forget to shut the cooling fans off early enough. My nitrate had been steady at 5-10 and dropped over the course of 3 days to zero, right before my last wc.

In my opinion somethings not right with that amount of algae in your system and surprised to see those readings so low, and something must be feeding it.
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This is the same problem I had with my tank - and many other beginning reefers have. Everything is zero or near that, yet there is a ton of algae. Then people will say the algae is consuming it so fast your readings are zero, and if you stop feeding 'they' will say PO4 leaching out of the rocks. I'm not sure why this happens on some tanks and not on others. But I suspect that the popular line isn't quite true.

Fish food adds quite a bit of PO4 to your tank. Rinsing gets rid of very little compared to what goes in. Running the gfo should help.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

I have been battling some algae for a few months now in my mature tank. I noticed my params have gone down with my growing coral, and particularly Mg which I wasn't testing. As I raised the levels my algae has decreased, even though my feeding is the same. I noticed a post on this forum by @Basile where he mentions high Ca levels kill cyano. To get to those levels you also need high Mg levels. For my tank I think I will start slowly raising my levels to the upper end of the spectrum and see what that does.

I don't know if this helps at all, and I really don't have much science behind what I'm doing, but I thought I'd share since it can be frustrating to have the algae in your tank, and I wanted to give another perspective. (and a pat on the back - your tank really is doing well and it is obvious you have a passion for the hobby)
 

Basile

Well-Known Member
This is the same problem I had with my tank - and many other beginning reefers have. Everything is zero or near that, yet there is a ton of algae. Then people will say the algae is consuming it so fast your readings are zero, and if you stop feeding 'they' will say PO4 leaching out of the rocks. I'm not sure why this happens on some tanks and not on others. But I suspect that the popular line isn't quite true.

Fish food adds quite a bit of PO4 to your tank. Rinsing gets rid of very little compared to what goes in. Running the gfo should help.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

I have been battling some algae for a few months now in my mature tank. I noticed my params have gone down with my growing coral, and particularly Mg which I wasn't testing. As I raised the levels my algae has decreased, even though my feeding is the same. I noticed a post on this forum by @Basile where he mentions high Ca levels kill cyano. To get to those levels you also need high Mg levels. For my tank I think I will start slowly raising my levels to the upper end of the spectrum and see what that does.

I don't know if this helps at all, and I really don't have much science behind what I'm doing, but I thought I'd share since it can be frustrating to have the algae in your tank, and I wanted to give another perspective. (and a pat on the back - your tank really is doing well and it is obvious you have a passion for the hobby)


That's quite the mystery, here. Whats your photo period , too long photo period will also encourage algae even if phosphates are low . Plus when you have this kind of mystery concerning levels of Po4 i'd re-calibrate with a second kind of testing kit. See if your first might be false.
 
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