Filtration system issue

[Petr]

Hi,

I did some investigation of improving filtration system in my RSM 250 (4 months old). I added filtration cotton to the bottom part of the rack. The reason why I did it is that I'm not satisfied with the whole filtration system (currently struggling with red slime on the sand ). The problem is (even if I remove cotton and have just some filtration bags in the rack) the water flow is decreasing. It's like that the throughput goes down. I guess the reason is that the cotton is dirty (after one day ) and the pump is set to max power. Also note that I bought 2 water stream pumps in addition.

I'm just curious if there is anyone who tried to "enhance" filtration system and how.
I do not know why I have red slime. PO4 is 0, NO2 0, NO3 3 ).
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[DaveK]

We might be loosing something in the translation. The term "filtration cotton" might mean a couple of different things. Usually for this sort of filtration polyester fiber is used, since it's inert in SW. Actual cotton shouldn't be used since it will decay in SW.

As for the red algae, this is common in new tanks. Given proper care, it can be controlled. Here is something I have posted before dealing with algae control issues.

DaveK's Standard Lecture #2 - Algae Control

Algae control comes down to controlling nitrates and phosphates. If you have a problem with algae it is because these two nutrients are out of control. Do not think that just because your test kits read zero or low values that you do not have a problem. In many cases the algae is removing the nutrients and growing. This is why there is a problem.

Here are possible sources of nitrates and phosphates -

Feeding, especially flake food and not rinsing frozen foods before feeding.
Using tap water to mix salt. Always use RO/DI water for this.
"Dirt traps" and "nitrate factories" in the system.
Low quality carbon can leach nutrients.
Low quality salt can sometimes add nutrients. This is unusual today.
Livestock load on the system

Here are possible ways to remove nitrates and phosphates -

Water changes. Change 1/2 the water and you reduce the nutrients by 1/2.
Skimming. Remove the waste products before the biological filtration need to break then down.
Nitrate and phosphate removal products.
Deep sand beds.
Refugiums.
Algae Scrubbers.

Each of these has advantages and disadvantages. Most people that control algae well use many of the above methods.

There are also other items that can effect algae growth rates.

Good clean up crew.
Other livestock that eats algae.
Low general water quality, especially when the readings are off.
Lighting, sometimes you can reduce it, especially in FO or FOWLR systems.
Old light bulbs. Colors change as they age and this can be a factor.
Water flow. More flow will often help keep algae down.
Manual removal. Very important, especially when there is a big problem.

 

[RedSeaKev]

One very important thing to look at is the actual balance of Algae nutrients, with low No3 and zero Po4 the N to P ratio as it is called is out of sync, it is important that these nutrients are balanced, this is one of the main reasons Red Sea Scientists developed No3Po4-X when dosed and used in conjunction with an efficient skimmer with a water to air ratio of 3:1 we can ensure low levels of algae nutrients can be maintained check out the following http://www.redseafish.com/blog/controlling-nuisance-algae-reef-aquaria/

 

[Petr]

Thanks guys! My bad, I should say filtration wool (by Sera). I have also ChemiPur with addition of ClearPhos and JBL ClearMec (this I added because I was desperate ). Maybe it is just one step in the cycling the tank, don't know.
Btw, yesterday I re-positioned one stream pump and point it directly to the worst place with slime. So let's see how it goes.
Also I'm still thinking that the filtration system is not good enough, especially the biological part.

 

[DaveK]

It is very unlikely that your filtration system on am RSM is not good enough. This is an all in one system, and unless you have really overcrowded the tank, it's going to be just fine.

The biological filtration system in a SW reef system is done by the live rock in the system. Provided you have enough live rock, you can actually remove all the biological filter media from the filtration system and you will see no difference in the system or water quality.

You usually want about one pound of live rock per gallon of water in a SW reef tank. Make sure you have about that amount.

See my previous post about sources of nitrate and phosphate. More than likely, one or more of these is a major source of the problem. Especially overfeeding, not using RO/DI water to mix your salt, and overstocking the tank.

It looks like your using several nitrate and/or phosphate removal products. While these can be helpful, it's also possible to way over do them. This is a case where there can be such a thing as too much. You need to maintain the nitrate and phosphate balance for best results. You might want to remove them, at least for the time being.

Just because your test kits all read 0 or close to it, don't think that you don't have a nitrate and phosphate issues. The algae is consuming these and growing, and that's why you have a problem.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

thought I would post a pic of your pretty tank in this thread, from a couple of months ago... it may help with the good advise you have been receiving

if it helps... I have seen many post where tanks go through a phase of red slime, I know mine does from time to time and it is almost always related to my overfeeding which is easy to do.
and +1 the algae are consuming what the test are not showing

if it gets really bad, might try light a stir the top 1/4" of the sand when doing weekly water changes 15% and go lights out for a couple of days, it won't hut your corals at all, also having a hardy cuc of snails will help, also take a turkey baster and blow it all into suspension before your wc - I would also skip the chemical slime removers and run some gfo

hope something here adds to the help & great advise you have been getting

 

[Petr]

I have decreased the time when lights are on by one hour (10 hours). Also I'm adding regularly NOPOX (btw which does great job). I believe that the main problem is that the tank is still cycling and KH/Calcium was low. Now it seems that things are getting better.
Finally nitrates are 0, PO4 is 0. Now the red slime is only in few isolated places, really small, so it's easy to remove it.
I have ordered few more snails (tectus), 2 is very few for this tank.
So now let's see what happens in next few weeks. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Petr]

Well, red slime is back. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm using only Nopox with 5ml dosage per day. I removed all phosphate removers and left only carbon (one bag). Nitrates are ~4ppm, phosphates I'm not able to measure (neither Salifert nor RedSea), but since red slime and green algae (on the back) started again I assume I have high level of nutrients. Note: I started dosing Nopox 2 months ago.
My skimmer is at almost top position and skimming wet. I added also Ozon (Certizon C50 at half power). Skimmate is light brown, like coffee.
It seems that I have still problems with the filtration system. Maybe I have to decrease the flow of water in the filtration system, because currently it's set to the highest power.

 

[DaveK]

The first things I would check, or check again, with any sort of algae or red slime problem is for sources of nitrate and phosphate. See my prior post on this - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/filtration-system-issue.97394/#post-1326970

I'd look at how much your feeding, and possible sources from top off water or water change water.

Also, this is still a fairly new tank, and it's not unusual for a new tank to go through a few algae blooms over the first year.

As for the use of Ozone, I don't recommend using it on a reef system. Ozone tends to kill off a lot of the good bacteria you want. If you are going to use it, the output water from the skimmer should be filtered through carbon to keep ozone out of the display tank. In addition, the output air from the skimmer should also be filtered over carbon to protect you.

 

[Petr]

Ozonizer is connected directly to skimmer air intake. And I'm using carbon, so it should be fine.
Top off water is RO/DI, but I probably need to double check the quality.
I'm just wondering when my tank will be mature enough. On July it will be one year.
Also I have a plan to buy Steve's leds and replace T5 lights. I'm expecting to save some electricity and better coral growth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

How old are the T5s? It's possible the spectrum is shifting if the bulbs are old, which could be helping the red slime/green algae to grow.

With regards to your test results showing 0 nitrates and phosphates, this is a common problem in the hobby. A reefer will say that they have nuisance algae, but their nitrates and phosphates are undetectable. This is because the algae in question is using all the available N and P. The rule of thumb is if you have nuisance algae, you have nitrogen and phosphates coming from somewhere. Try a few large water changes in quick succession, and maybe consider changing more water more often, or perhaps changing more when you perform your changes. A good skimmer and carbon dosing (No3Po4-X) will help, but it's possible the phosphates are still high despite those two factors. Generally speaking, carbon dosing will use a lot of the nitrates in the water, but will use a lot less of the free phosphates, meaning more is available for nuisance algae.

One thing to also keep in mind, your sand can over time become full of detritus that will eventually get released back into the tank. Be sure to siphon the sand and stir it occasionally to ensure it stays clean.

**EDIT**

To add on to Dave's comments, "filtration" in a reef tank is difficult to quantify. It means lots of different things to lots of different people. I prefer to think instead about the goal of filtration and how we can accomplish it. The goal is really to keep our tank water safe for our fish and corals. This involves two basic concepts: first, we want to turn the dangerous compounds the fish and living organisms excrete (ammonia) into less dangerous compounds (nitrates). We also want to remove the nutrients that accumulate (nitrates and phosphates) before they cause problems in the tank.

The first objective above is handled almost exclusively by the live rock. The bacteria on and in the rock transform ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. If you have no measurable ammonia and nitrites, your biological filtration (live rock) is working as designed.

The second objective is where all the other filtration methods come in. The filter floss is designed to remove uneaten food and fish waste before it can break down into ammonia and phosphates (note: the filter floss only works if you replace it frequently. It would be best to avoid it all together if you aren't able to replace it every few days). The skimmer is designed to do something similar, it removes food and waste particles before they can break down into nitrates and phosphates. GAC mostly removes toxins and chemicals from the water, and there is some consensus that it can remove other dissolved organics as well. The Nopox is designed to grow bacteria, which eat nitrates and phosphates, and are then removed by the skimmer, thus removing the compounds from your aquarium.

If I were in your shoes I would focus on the nutrients going into the tank and nutrient export. Try to watch the feeding and make sure all the food you put in gets eaten or removed promptly. Also check that your RO/DI water is reading at 0 ppm TDS. On the export side, try to siphon and stir the sand bed, and try a few large water changes.

 

[Petr]

Thank you both, I appreciate your advice! Regarding T5s are roughly 8 months old. So I don't think it's the root cause. But still I'd like to change to LEDs.
I don't think I feed too much, just once a day and fish eat it in, say two minutes. For time to time I skip feeding for one day.
Yesterday I changed RO filters and also carbon inside the tank. I guess I have to be more patient and see if it helps after some time.

 

[Squatch XXL]

It is totally normal for "newer" tanks to experience odd algae popping up seemingly at random while the tank strives to create a balance of bacteria. I had a small spot of cyano pop up a few weeks ago in a 2+ year old 40g...it happened when I moved most of the corals out to a newer tank. I disturbed some part of the process, and since I am just a dumb plumber, and not a marine biologist I can't explain it. Anything can and usually does happen during the first year.

However, I loaded up my 90g with the new corals, and had no issues at all....This also seems random to me....However, I have no fish and only "feed" the tank once a week.

Lights out a few days straight will rob algae of its ability to produce food. I would also recommend looking at your top-off fresh water supply and see if it is reporting no excess minerals.