I am new to saltwater aquariums though i've longed to have one since I was young. In the 80's I had a 125 gallon freshwater tank with South African cichlids. I enjoyed my time with this setup but two years later I was married and began a family and my priorities changed. Now that my children are grown and on their own I've been viewing aquarium shops and what they have to offer in terms of aquariums. It was during this time that I discovered the Red Sea max series of aquariums. I instantly fell in love with the white 650 they had on display but I thought it was out of my reach since I was recently retired and living on a smaller budget. Unfortunately last month a family member passed away but in her kindness she left money for the remaining family. I'm guessing that it will be another month before I can place the order but I'm looking forward to finally seeing a dream come true. I will be reviewing all that I can here and. elsewhere. So I can imagine you will see me around lurking in the forms.
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- Thread starter jedidad
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Pat24601
Well-Known Member
I love the Red Sea aquariums.
One thing about budget, though, is make sure you understand not only the original tank cost, but also the cost to fill it and maintain it.
I've had more expensive hobbies, but saltwater isn't cheap. Although, it can be not too bad. There are a lot of good coral frags that really aren't that pricey.
Anyway, welcome to the forums and we will all be excited to follow along as you buy and set up your tank! It's a great hobby.
One thing about budget, though, is make sure you understand not only the original tank cost, but also the cost to fill it and maintain it.
I've had more expensive hobbies, but saltwater isn't cheap. Although, it can be not too bad. There are a lot of good coral frags that really aren't that pricey.
Anyway, welcome to the forums and we will all be excited to follow along as you buy and set up your tank! It's a great hobby.
I would recommend that you start with a smaller system first. Just about everyone makes some mistakes, and is learning a lot with that first system. It's a lot easier to correct something in a smaller system. Once you master that for a year or two, and you know your way around, then get that large system you always wanted.
This is not unlike industry, where then build a small pilot plant and work out the problems of scaling up a process and then build the large full size plant.
This is not unlike industry, where then build a small pilot plant and work out the problems of scaling up a process and then build the large full size plant.
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
How do you feel about the pure cost issue?
Say an S-650 costs $5k. If you go smaller to start (say E-260) that's roughly $2k.
So, you've spent $7k in tanks in 2-3 years rather than just the original $5k if you don't get what you want to begin with.
BTW, @DaveK is one of our true resident experts on this forum.
mr_tap_water
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum and looking forward to seeing your set up in the near future[emoji846]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SPR
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I did - but in only 3 months!How do you feel about the pure cost issue?
Say an S-650 costs $5k. If you go smaller to start (say E-260) that's roughly $2k.
So, you've spent $7k in tanks in 2-3 years rather than just the original $5k if you don't get what you want to begin with.
BTW, @DaveK is one of our true resident experts on this forum.
I completely see the point in starting with a smaller system as per the advice from DaveK, and I learned from my E260 but if you like the hobby, and you can afford it just get it. I went from an E260 to the Max S 650 and wish I had in the first place but I was completely new to this so had to make sure I liked it.
I am a firm believer in always buying the best you can afford otherwise you will generally always regret it later.
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How do you feel about the pure cost issue?
Say an S-650 costs $5k. If you go smaller to start (say E-260) that's roughly $2k.
So, you've spent $7k in tanks in 2-3 years rather than just the original $5k if you don't get what you want to begin with.
BTW, @DaveK is one of our true resident experts on this forum.
You bring up a point, but I disagree with it. Yes, you will spend that extra $2K, but consider that you will also have two systems. You can always find something that you can put in the old system as long as your willing to maintain two tanks. In addition the old system has at least some salvage value. You can sell it for something.
However the big thing you gain is when you make the typical beginner mistakes. For example, you need to remove all the fish so you can treat them for disease. It's a lot easier to get them out of a smaller tank. You make a mistake and loose the entire tank. It's a lot easier and a lot less expensive to restart and restock a smaller tank. If you break something, a replacement part is usually a lot less expensive. If you get into the hobby and find that it's really not your thing, you are out a lot less money.
It's sort of like this, you don't let your son, who just got his drivers license, drive your high performance sports car.
On a slightly different area, regarding smaller tanks. If a larger tank is in your future, don't spend a heap of money on upgrades to the smaller tank, unless you can directly carry them over to the new tank. Don't upgrade things like lighting, and filtration since they will usually not carry over. Adding a power head for circulation is ok, because that can be used on any size system. Same for an ATO or RO/DI unit if you size it correctly.
Pat24601
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Dave!
Blue Space
Well-Known Member
Welcome to RS jedidad!
If you decide against an AIO tank, you may be able to find a more affordable option. Also, for many of us in the hobby, the design and build element is part of the fun.
If so, my advice is to take advantage of those who have either left the hobby or upgrading. Check craig's list. com. You can find some smoking hot deals! Just make sure you deal locally and look the tank over good before handing over any money. Also, you might even find a dollar per gallon Petco sale in you area.
As far as operating costs, you'll need to consider how much a 10% weekly (or 20% bi-weekly) water change of said tank would be.You'll also need salt (Instant Ocean Reef Crystals has been a standard in the industry for years), sand (substrate), a sufficient return pump, a heater, a skimmer (buy this item last as you won't need it during the initial tank cycle), and most important to a successful tank -test kits! Start with an API ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH test kits. You'll need at least the first three to know when your tank is ready for its new inhabitants.
If you should choose to keep coral you'll also want to monitor/supplement alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. For these tests I would recommend Salifert. These tests are accurate, easy to perform, and relatively lower cost than some others.
I hope this helps and welcome to the hobby!
If you decide against an AIO tank, you may be able to find a more affordable option. Also, for many of us in the hobby, the design and build element is part of the fun.
If so, my advice is to take advantage of those who have either left the hobby or upgrading. Check craig's list. com. You can find some smoking hot deals! Just make sure you deal locally and look the tank over good before handing over any money. Also, you might even find a dollar per gallon Petco sale in you area.
As far as operating costs, you'll need to consider how much a 10% weekly (or 20% bi-weekly) water change of said tank would be.You'll also need salt (Instant Ocean Reef Crystals has been a standard in the industry for years), sand (substrate), a sufficient return pump, a heater, a skimmer (buy this item last as you won't need it during the initial tank cycle), and most important to a successful tank -test kits! Start with an API ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH test kits. You'll need at least the first three to know when your tank is ready for its new inhabitants.
If you should choose to keep coral you'll also want to monitor/supplement alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. For these tests I would recommend Salifert. These tests are accurate, easy to perform, and relatively lower cost than some others.
I hope this helps and welcome to the hobby!
Welcome to RS jedidad!
If you decide against an AIO tank, you may be able to find a more affordable option. Also, for many of us in the hobby, the design and build element is part of the fun.
If so, my advice is to take advantage of those who have either left the hobby or upgrading. Check craig's list. com. You can find some smoking hot deals! Just make sure you deal locally and look the tank over good before handing over any money. Also, you might even find a dollar per gallon Petco sale in you area.
As far as operating costs, you'll need to consider how much a 10% weekly (or 20% bi-weekly) water change of said tank would be.You'll also need salt (Instant Ocean Reef Crystals has been a standard in the industry for years), sand (substrate), a sufficient return pump, a heater, a skimmer (buy this item last as you won't need it during the initial tank cycle), and most important to a successful tank -test kits! Start with an API ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH test kits. You'll need at least the first three to know when your tank is ready for its new inhabitants.
If you should choose to keep coral you'll also want to monitor/supplement alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. For these tests I would recommend Salifert. These tests are accurate, easy to perform, and relatively lower cost than some others.
I hope this helps and welcome to the hobby!
I'm starting to sound like an old curmudgeon on this whole thread. I have a few comments on your post.
It's very hard to build your own tank installation using components and DIY and end up saving money over and all in one set up. You do you own system setup more to get it the way you want it. It's am especially good way to go if you want a lot of high end or exotic equipment. For a first system, this can be extremely expensive, since you'll usually end up replacing a lot of that sub par gear you got in the first time.
Used equipment can be a good way to go. Even so, shop carefully. Be sure the equipment is in almost new looking condition or can be easily cleaned up. Check tanks and sumps for any chips, scratches, or other dings. Check the lighting and filtration for missing or damaged parts. If you find equipment that you can't use or sell, it's worth nothing to you, so make sure the price you pay considers that. Often you can find a fantastic bargain. Watch out for people have have a grossly over inflated opinion of what used equipment is worth. If you have a local friend into SW reef system, it may help to have them along when you check out used equipment.
On recommending API test kits, I don't care for them at all, mostly because I have found that some of them don't seem to work too well. With any test kit, I think your better off buying them online, rather than from your LFS, where it may have been on the shelf for years. Of the aquarium grade test kits, I usually get Sailfret or SeaChem for aquarium grade test kits. If you really need them to be accurate there are the test kits by LaMotte and the ones by Hach, but they are very expensive, and not usually needed. Also, I highly recommend a refractometer to measure SG. It's a lot more accurate that a hydrometer.
Blue Space
Well-Known Member
Hey there Dave.
It may not be easier to build your own system vs an AIO but if you can catch the right individual leaving the hobby at just the right time you just may score the jackpot in a complete system for a very low price. I was given (like for free) a 75 gallon tank setup by a guy who was leaving the hobby. Now, while that isn't the norm you can usually find a good setup for less than 2K on craig's list. . .
Here's an example for today's listings! I might just check these out. A little TLC and some new parts can have you up and running in no time for CHEAP!
130 Gallon Saltwater Aquarium Setup
80 Gallon Reef Tank Setup
Yeah, API isn't my favorite either but could be the most affordable option for him, since he mentioned that he is on a fixed income. They'll be good enough to get him cycled... Salifert FTW!!! I can't get by without my Hanna alk and phos checkers either!
It's great to hear from you and much respect, Dave.
It may not be easier to build your own system vs an AIO but if you can catch the right individual leaving the hobby at just the right time you just may score the jackpot in a complete system for a very low price. I was given (like for free) a 75 gallon tank setup by a guy who was leaving the hobby. Now, while that isn't the norm you can usually find a good setup for less than 2K on craig's list. . .
Here's an example for today's listings! I might just check these out. A little TLC and some new parts can have you up and running in no time for CHEAP!
130 Gallon Saltwater Aquarium Setup
80 Gallon Reef Tank Setup
Yeah, API isn't my favorite either but could be the most affordable option for him, since he mentioned that he is on a fixed income. They'll be good enough to get him cycled... Salifert FTW!!! I can't get by without my Hanna alk and phos checkers either!
It's great to hear from you and much respect, Dave.
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...
Here's an example for today's listings! I might just check these out. A little TLC and some new parts can have you up and running in no time for CHEAP!
130 Gallon Saltwater Aquarium Setup
80 Gallon Reef Tank Setup
...
These are a couple of good examples of what you should consider when buying used. You can still get a bargain, but be prepared to sink some money into it. In a way it's kind of like buying a 60 year old house that's never been upgraded. Your going to want to bring the tank up to today's standards.
I'm likely a lot more fussy than most, but if I were getting involved with the 130 gal system I'd want to do the following -
The canopy would need to go and the lighting replaced. Offhand it seems to be VHO T12 bulbs. Not bad in their day, but nowhere near close to T5s or LEDs available today. Good light means better growing corals.
The stand has some water damage and that would need to be corrected. Maybe the stand could be refinished. It might need replacement.
The filtration system seems to be a trickle filter, with an old external pump, and a skimmer that looks rather beat, possibly repaired or modified many times. I know I'd at least want to re-plumb it all, and replace the skimmer. I'd likely replace the pump with one that used a lot less power. I'd be inclined to replace the trickle filter, most likely by building a sump out of a 20 long or 30 gal tank. I'd also add some circulation pumps.
I didn't see a heater offhand. If that were original, I'd replace that also.
As for the live rock, I'd rinse it off good in SW and "cook" that for about 6 months in a large rubbermaid trash can. I'd discard the substrate. I think you'd need additional rock, so I'd add some dry reef rock for that.
Since we are talking replacing a lot of equipment, the total price could vary quite a lot. You could look for inexpensive solutions that would work ok or you could go all out. Also you usually don't need to do all this replacing at once. Assuming all the equipment is sound, I'd replace the lighting and return pump right off. The newer products will pay for them selves in electricity saved. Then I'd go after the skimmer and sump. I'd add the dry reef rock as needed. If I was using regular LR, I'd add it all when I set up the tank, since that's got to cure.
So you can see, you can save some money here. You can also see how it's like buying an old house, where you need to upgrade the electrical system, plumbing, appliances, and paint it before your really happy. (grin)
Blue Space
Well-Known Member
yep the 130 looks tired but the 80 gallon looks to be a beautiful tank and stand combination. If he was trying to stay below two thousand, something similar to this plus the money you had left over and you'd have plenty left in the budget for some new pieces of critical gear (return pump, heater(s), etc.). It all depends. . . The OP could already be set on an AIO. 
Welcome, welcome!
I have to say up front that I don't have nearly as much experience as many of these people do, but since you already have experience taking care of tanks, I'd go with your gut. I have two AIO tanks from Innovative Marine and a small 8 gallon nano AIO. I absolutely love them and I will never ever go back to all the headaches and mind numbing confusion of plumbing, rubbermaid tubs, sumps, etc. I know and can fully appreciate the challenge that it may bring some people (bless you), but I've alway had to fly solo with my tanks, never finding anyone locally to share or even mentor me on the DIY learning curve. I learned the hard way with my original 55 gal, undrilled, crap all under the cabinet that this was not the way I was going to go with my next tank. Twelve years later I dove back in with my IM40. It was and still is the best decision I've ever made. When I move, I'm considering the IM120. I just might look at the RedSea as well.
As far as buying used, yes you can find some good deals, but like a used car you have to be extremely vigilant about what you're buying. There could also be quite a bit of time between when you are ready to pull the trigger and when you actually find the system you'd consider putting your money down on. You also have to consider warranty on your system. Buying used you don't get one. I had a leak in my IM38, called the company and within a week I had a whole new system delivered.
I understand you're looking at RedSea and their tanks don't come acrylic, but stay far away from that stuff. Go glass and go low-iron glass only. I have a love/hate relationship with my 8 gallon. Even for as little as it is, it is a royal pain to maintain.
Test kits are alway up for debate. This past year I went Hanna to include their refractometer and I absolutely love them. Best money (besides my lighting) that I've spent.
For your frags, go small and go cheap. Remember everything grows. I've got mushrooms, green star polyps and zoas in excess and as of yesterday my little rose bubble tipped anemone has split for the third time.
Buy the tank/setup you really want. Get the best lighting you can afford that will support the dream you have in your mind of what you'd like to eventually keep when your tank is ready (I have Radion) and then slow down, take your time and enjoy this amazing thing we call a hobby.
I have to say up front that I don't have nearly as much experience as many of these people do, but since you already have experience taking care of tanks, I'd go with your gut. I have two AIO tanks from Innovative Marine and a small 8 gallon nano AIO. I absolutely love them and I will never ever go back to all the headaches and mind numbing confusion of plumbing, rubbermaid tubs, sumps, etc. I know and can fully appreciate the challenge that it may bring some people (bless you), but I've alway had to fly solo with my tanks, never finding anyone locally to share or even mentor me on the DIY learning curve. I learned the hard way with my original 55 gal, undrilled, crap all under the cabinet that this was not the way I was going to go with my next tank. Twelve years later I dove back in with my IM40. It was and still is the best decision I've ever made. When I move, I'm considering the IM120. I just might look at the RedSea as well.
As far as buying used, yes you can find some good deals, but like a used car you have to be extremely vigilant about what you're buying. There could also be quite a bit of time between when you are ready to pull the trigger and when you actually find the system you'd consider putting your money down on. You also have to consider warranty on your system. Buying used you don't get one. I had a leak in my IM38, called the company and within a week I had a whole new system delivered.
I understand you're looking at RedSea and their tanks don't come acrylic, but stay far away from that stuff. Go glass and go low-iron glass only. I have a love/hate relationship with my 8 gallon. Even for as little as it is, it is a royal pain to maintain.
Test kits are alway up for debate. This past year I went Hanna to include their refractometer and I absolutely love them. Best money (besides my lighting) that I've spent.
For your frags, go small and go cheap. Remember everything grows. I've got mushrooms, green star polyps and zoas in excess and as of yesterday my little rose bubble tipped anemone has split for the third time.
Buy the tank/setup you really want. Get the best lighting you can afford that will support the dream you have in your mind of what you'd like to eventually keep when your tank is ready (I have Radion) and then slow down, take your time and enjoy this amazing thing we call a hobby.
I agree with everything in your post except this. I'd say it's a toss up between acrylic and glass. This is very dependent upon how big a tank you want, and what your trying to do with it.
Acrylic has advantages if you want a very large tank, or a very unusual shapes one. It also is much lighter in weight than glass. Acrylic is also a lot easier to drill or modify, for example if you want to add a coast to coast overflow. The big downside for acrylic is that it's a lot easier to scratch, but you can usually buff out the scratches. It's also a lot more expensive.
Glass is a lot more resistant to scratching, and a lot less expensive. If it's not tempered, you can drill the tank. Glass tanks are also generally available. If you need a replacement and it's a fairly standard tank, you can pick one up from your LFS.
As for low iron glass. Yes it does look nice It is very clear in that it doesn't have that green tint you see in plate glass. It's also a lot more expensive. In my opinion this green tint is hardly noticeable in smaller tanks, about 40 gal or less. So unless your going for a big tank, or are placing the tank in an area where it's got to look perfect, go with standard plate glass and save some money.
I'll let you in on another trick of the trade. If your running high end LED lighting where you can adjust the color spectrum, you can easily compensate for that slight green tint you get from plate glass.
SPR
Well-Known Member
Going back to the original question - if you have the money just go and get one of the new Red Sea Max E or S aquariums and if you want the S 650 get it. Or you will regret it later if that's what you want.
Also consider the aquarium is a piece of furniture. If you want something with things sticking out all over the place maybe build one but if you want a beautiful piece of furniture...
You get what you pay for 15mm low lead glass etc etc and they are stunning. And no I don't work for Red Sea! If you have the money I wouldn't even consider second hand or trying to build, cut holes in it etc etc as I think that's for the experts. The all in one systems are ready to go and certainly the Red Sea use high end equipment and are plug and play (well if you live in hot climates and don't need a heater as you don't get one!).
I have the new black Max S 650 LED and all I would caution is that you need to have money if you go for a big tank as 1 clown fish and a few corals won't look very spectacular in one of these.
As SalinFL states, originally when I got my tank i got large corals which cost a fortune. I then found that you can buy extremely cheap frags which are a fraction of the price and part of the enjoyment is watching these mature and grow as does your experience. I now generally only buy small frags but many different varieties but again even small frags add up to an awfull lot of money. I get most of mine now mail order and usually order around 10 at a time as they are a fraction of what my LFS sells them at for the same thing.
Anyway my bit of a view for all its worth... Good luck.
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