Anybody had a bad/disappointed experience with biopellets?

cracker

Well-Known Member
I have been running biopellets for about 5 months now. I lost pretty much all the HA and bubble algaes I had. However my corals just don't look good. The tankmis also overrun with this lite brown algae but that's another story maybe. Just wanted to know if anybody ran pellets and didn't like them. Thanks
 

Antics

Active Member
I've heard my fair share about biopellets, but most people that complain say that it doesn't work. In my experience, running a biopellet reactor has always been reasonably successful on my personal aquariums.
 

cracker

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. I also have had reasonable success with cutting back on the HA and bubble. Has anybody had adverse effects on corals ?
so I had a bad HA and bubble issue. Corals were looking fine. I started running the biopellets There is a little HA in the overflows and the bubble is about gone. However this light brown whatever has taken over and the corals are looking bad. I don't think I over did it with the pellets. I realize there are many variables, lighting, water quality, etc. Just trying to address each one at a time,.
 

MatroxD

Active Member
What are your levels showing or at? You might have pulled everything as far as nutrients. And not looking good in how specifically, and what type of coral?

Sent from my SM-N920F using Tapatalk
 

cracker

Well-Known Member
I have that info ! As of 4/17/16 I don't test constant. Salinity at 25/26.
Ca 420
alk 8.4
mg 1240
No3 0
po4 <.08
I didn't trust the no3 and po4 so was tested by my trusted LFS They must be there ,just tied up in the algae.
I have a few corals. Several open brains colts ,toadstool several anchors and 2 Sps that are looking very sad. I have 3 medium sized fish.
Overall the tank isn't right. So I'm going thru the long list of variables. I have the lighting intesnity set in the ball park. I run them 7 hours a day in an effort to starve this brown stuff. Hope it's not too short of lights on. I'm considering changing my salt mix. I use ocean blend 2 part and a shot of mag every so often. I tried an algae scrubber for a year with poor results. Now I'm going old school with some chaeto in a bare refugium. I just wonder if the bio pellets are helping or ,,,, Like I said just going thru the variables.
Thanks for any OP's
 

cracker

Well-Known Member
Geez You Folks don't miss a thing ! LOL I have that info as well.
I do about 30/40 gls a week in a system, I guess to be a little < 250
this includes steady blasting the rock witha power head, siphoniing and scrubbing the top pieces of Lr the base rock is just to big for me to get out anymore.
 

MatroxD

Active Member
250 gallons correct, for twv? And I thought you mentioned, but how old is the system? And as goofy as it sounds, what's the temp? And the salt? And lastly, what do you use in the tank for water flow?

And this just popped into my brain, you said your doing 30 to 40 gallons on a tank with very little sps, but you dosing 2 part? Is that correct? And how do you dose it(in case I missed it because it's early for me) and how often?

And the big question is, by not looking right, what exactly do you mean? It's probably better and easier to take pictures and post them... Lol, at least for me.. I'm getting old... Lol


The phosphate is high though.. That's enough to make sps unhappy..


Sent from my SM-N920F using Tapatalk
 

cracker

Well-Known Member
Evening, Hey Matrox, I realize age is a relative thing. I turn 56 tomorrow and feel a little old myself.
So back to the topic at hand. so my total water volume I "think" is around just under 250 gls.
My temps are "high " 70's very low 80's once in a while.
I have been using Coral life salt for years. The tank is about 6 years old however I never had more than 5/6 fish and never overfed. I do have a lot of old LR of many types .
I use 4 koralia's on a wave maker. I was using 4 1550's and thought I had good in tank flow. I recently took out 2 and replaced them with the 3250's. That was a big increase in the flow!
I started dosing 2 part ocean's blend a good while ago at 75 mls per day then went to 100 mls my levels were still a little low. so I went to 125 mls. That got me in the proper range. Now I dose 150 mls to see if I can get some coraline growing. I dose pretty much daily . Every so often I forget.
The biopellet reactor seems to be working as advertized,. My skimmer is kicking but. I run socks on all outputs.
I will get some test results this week. here is a pic of the brown stuff that is driving me nuts!

Thanks for the OP's, Brian
 
Last edited:

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Do you happen to know your N and P levels? It might be hard to know this, especially if this nuisance algae is using all of the nutrients in the water. I bring this up because some people over on that other reefing forum notice that if you have low (or no) nitrogen or phosphorus, organic carbon dosing (like biopellets) isn't as effective. There is some speculation that the bacteria we grow with organic carbon follow some approximation of the Redfield ratio. While we don't know this for sure, lots of reefers report limited success of carbon dosing without some presence of both N and P. You mentioned using an ATS and having limited success with that as well, and I believe hobbyists have a similar experience with scrubbers there too. Both N and P are needed for them to work.

The concept of organic carbon dosing is still relatively new, and there isn't a ton of science to say specifically why it works the way it does, but it definitely does work. Zeovit, one of the most popular and well known methods for maintaining SPS tanks, is organic carbon dosing at its core. Zeovit involves other supplements and coral nutrition products, but organic carbon dosing is a large part of it as well.

My money is betting that you have high N and no P, or vice versa. But, that's just my $0.02 after all :)
 

MatroxD

Active Member
Ok, I'm still not awake, but let me ask a question after looking at that picture, how does your skim smell? And what skimmer, do you skim wet or dry, and how long does it take to fill the cup

And I haven't experienced that in a very, very, very long time(the stuff on your walls).. I have to ponder and remember the cause, but it's more like slime algea.. Now,I know most people don't like it, but I'm a huge proponent of chemiclean for slime.. Simply because, it knocks it out fast and you can go on with your day.. But let me know about that skim smell.. That's pretty important.. And I have to think on this one and try and remember..

And also, corraline should just grow.. It comes in waves, but it should just grow.. As annoying as corraline is to be honest...

I really have to try and remember this one... Lol, I need to go smoke right quick and try to remember... The more I'm thinking about it, I need to see your answers, but you may not like what I have to say...

Sent from my SM-N920F using Tapatalk
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
If you look around the net, you find there are people that use bio-pellet reactors and love them, and other that tried then and hate them.

Various denitrification filters have been around for years. In these a source of organic carbon is used along with very slow water flow. In the filter, anaerobic bacteria grow and consume the organic carbon and nitrate. In conventional denitrification filters regulation has been something of a problem. Too fast a flow and you get incomplete nitrate reduction, and nitrite in the output. Too slow a flow and you get sulfate reduction. That's that rotten egg smell you get.

With organic carbon dosing using vodka or sugar or anything similar, the denitrification process moves to inside the tank. This is not necessarily bad, but it's why you see people have big problems if the stop dosing organic carbon. Most of the bacteria supported by it die and you have a problem.

With bio-pellets you move everything back into a reactor and the pellets are also the source of organic carbon. This makes it a lot easier to deal with compared to the older methods. At the same time, you still have some of the same problems. Note the various warnings about using too much or too little, especially when you first use them.

Getting back to your problem. I'd say that using the bio-pellets has gotten rid of your problem algae but as you suspect, it's also being tough on the corals, and giving you another form of problem algae. However, I can't be sure of this.

Where do you go from here? I'd slowly reduce the use of the bio-pellets and make water changes and see what happens. You may find you don't need them or you may find a better balance, You might also find they were really doing some good, and in that case you can go back to using the full amount.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
scubadorable_birthday3.jpg
 

StevesLEDs

RS Sponsor
From a personal standpoint, and my experience of 18 years with saltwater and 7 personal marine aquariums, I've been channeled with that brown algae constantly. I haven't seen a hint of it when I switched all of my aquariums over to LED lighting - specifically, LED combination that had no red LEDs in them. I did play around with the trendy "OCW - ocean cool whites) which include one red, one cyan, one royal blue, and did have algae issues with that.

That said, algae cannot photosynthesize and produce it's own food without red light. Starve it from red wavelengths and it can't survive. Naturally LEDs are the best way to do that because the spectrum is extremely narrow, and you can pick on the wavelengths that corals photosynthesize, and avoid those wavelengths that algae photosynthesizes. Not promoting anything here, just sharing how I resolved my algae frustrations completely, after spending hundreds and hundreds of hours over the years scrubbing tanks, and playing with reactors, chambers, filters, medias etc. The less reactors, medias etc you can get away with using, usually is better in the long run as you are creating more of a natural ecosystem, instead of an ecosystem hinging on the successful operation of a half dozen or more different devices.

Jeff
 

DaveR11

Well-Known Member
From a personal standpoint, and my experience of 18 years with saltwater and 7 personal marine aquariums, I've been channeled with that brown algae constantly. I haven't seen a hint of it when I switched all of my aquariums over to LED lighting - specifically, LED combination that had no red LEDs in them. I did play around with the trendy "OCW - ocean cool whites) which include one red, one cyan, one royal blue, and did have algae issues with that.

That said, algae cannot photosynthesize and produce it's own food without red light. Starve it from red wavelengths and it can't survive. Naturally LEDs are the best way to do that because the spectrum is extremely narrow, and you can pick on the wavelengths that corals photosynthesize, and avoid those wavelengths that algae photosynthesizes. Not promoting anything here, just sharing how I resolved my algae frustrations completely, after spending hundreds and hundreds of hours over the years scrubbing tanks, and playing with reactors, chambers, filters, medias etc. The less reactors, medias etc you can get away with using, usually is better in the long run as you are creating more of a natural ecosystem, instead of an ecosystem hinging on the successful operation of a half dozen or more different devices.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I'm puzzled - most of the corals in our reef tanks contain photosynthetic algae so surely excluding all red light from the spectrum in a reef aquarium will adversely affect those 'good' algae as well as those species growing over the rocks and walls of the aquarium that we don't want?

Kind regards,

Dave
 

StevesLEDs

RS Sponsor
Dave,
Good question. In the LED systems I have (from Steves LEDs), there are no dedicated red LEDs (like too many other companies). However, the whites they use are full-spectrum whites, so a very small amount of red light is definitely present to fill the spectrum gaps if it is required, but not so much that it is supercharging nuisance algae growth like a dedicated red LED would. With the red spectrum within the full spectrum white LEDs, it is all about having the minimum amount necessary to still do the job.

Jeff
 

DaveR11

Well-Known Member
Dave,
Good question. In the LED systems I have (from Steves LEDs), there are no dedicated red LEDs (like too many other companies). However, the whites they use are full-spectrum whites, so a very small amount of red light is definitely present to fill the spectrum gaps if it is required, but not so much that it is supercharging nuisance algae growth like a dedicated red LED would. With the red spectrum within the full spectrum white LEDs, it is all about having the minimum amount necessary to still do the job.

Jeff

I've just been reading up (and trying to remember my degree lectures of 30 years ago....). For green plants blue and red light is most important (they appear green as their chlorophyll pigments are absorbing the blue and red wavelengths of light but not the green). For red algaes they use blue / green light so the absence of red will make no difference to their ability to photosynthesise. So my reading of this is light spectrum as a limiting factor in algae growth is going to depend on the colour of algae you are dealing with. If it is a green algae then a lack of red would limit growth but for a red algae it will have no effect... However according to Wikipedia Zooxanthellae in corals contain both chlorophyll a and c so will need both blue and red light for them to work effectively within your corals.

I guess this issue boils down to what a particular organism needs to live and grow. For a simple plant like an algae or a photosynthetic bacteria like a cyanobacteria you need water to live in, light as an energy source to drive to photosynthesis, carbon dioxide or bicarbonate as a carbon source plus all those nutrients and trace elements to function properly. Limit any one and you slow or arrest growth. The other option is to find something to eat the organism. So we limit light, reduce nitrates and phosphates or add a clean up crew....

Do you think not having a dedicated red LED is missing out on coral growth? I have just switched from T5s to LEDs to try to reduce my electric bill amongst other things and notice how much of a blue look there is to the light. With the T5s I ran a mix of blue/white, pink and actinic tubes. One of the best coral growth tanks on this forum is lit with T5s. My LEDs do have a red channel but with all the flexibility and control comes the conundrum of what is best for all the organisms in the tank plus what looks good to me when I'm viewing it.... Too much choice can be confusing!

Still always plenty to learn and read with this hobby!
 

StevesLEDs

RS Sponsor
Different algae do have different chlorophyll absorption peaks so you would think that red doesn't play a big role, but in my experience it does. When I do get minor algae outbreaks, 100% of the time it has been due to high phosphate levels.

Red light is the first to be absorbed by ocean water, usually within the first few feet. That said, most corals live in deeper water than that, and do not require red light at all. Here's a supporting (credible!) research article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

Jeff
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
... I have just switched from T5s to LEDs to try to reduce my electric bill amongst other things and notice how much of a blue look there is to the light. With the T5s I ran a mix of blue/white, pink and actinic tubes. One of the best coral growth tanks on this forum is lit with T5s. My LEDs do have a red channel but with all the flexibility and control comes the conundrum of what is best for all the organisms in the tank plus what looks good to me when I'm viewing it.... Too much choice can be confusing!...

You have a couple of other factors at work here. T5s have been around for years, and while there are some variations between fixtures, they tend to be similar. You plug in the bulbs you want and plug them in. With LEDs you first have the selection of the LEDs used and how they are configured and what you can set up to control them. There are a lot more factors involved.

For example, you can usually dim LEDs or control the spectrum in use. This makes it possible to fine tune your lighting, it also make it possible to totally mess up your lighting. LEDs also tend to direct their light straight down, even if you have the "wide angle" lenses on them. This is another area where it's possible to go wrong, and where you can have enough light, but it's distributed poorly.

All that being said, it come down to this. Good T5s are going to beat out poor LED fixtures or poorly set up LED lighting. Good LED fixtures set up properly is going to beat out T5s. Even so T5s are far from bad light.
 
Top